cork ring road

cork ring road

Postby daniel_7 » Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:33 pm

work has started on taking down the sifco factory in mahon point for the motor mall planned. along with fota, little island and blarneys new planned motor malls and recent completions such as keareys on the kinsale road etc has to make soutside of cork one of the best locations in the country to buy a car. This also shows thiugh that the nortside does really lose out on alot of development as a result of the north ring road delayment. This really is one of the most important developments for the city I think there should be more effort put into making this a top priority for the city!
Anyone make any submissions on the docklands cuase there is some really good ideas in this thread and just wondering are any of ya forwarding them as I can see the city council not doing an awfull job on the docklands but not using it to its full potential?
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Postby lexington » Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:35 pm

Thanks jdivision wasn't quite sure on the status of the Clarendon Properties project - haven't been keeping my eye on Dublin as much as I should in some time. Must rectify that. In any event, the prospect of attracting a retaillers like A&F must have some developers foaming at the mouth. Mike Jefferies has asserted that they would be cautious in approaching European markets and that taking up shop would be on their terms. Interesting.

daniel_7 - the Northern Ring Road scheme has clear short-term economic advantages yes. I am well aware of the ins-and-outs of the project but I can't help but feel its money in the wrong pocket. The €500m would be much better spent on the investment of a quality light-rail system. We're far too accommodating to the 'car' in this country as it is - I feel the project in its current conception will simply uproot some pleasant country-side and damage the city's greenbelt in the long run.
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Re: developments in cork

Postby Frank Taylor » Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:38 pm

[quote="Angry Rebel"]If you keep those who don't need to be in the city out of it (e.g through traffic) it creates a more pleasant environment for those who do enter the city! ]Ring roads around cities are little used by through traffic. Look at the M50, mostly carrying Dubliners from one part of the city to another. Cork is already bypassed to the South and traffic from most parts of the country heading to South or West Cork has no need to enter the city.

Which of Cork's problems will be solved by a mini-M25? It will literally pave the way for the concrete carpet development of North Cork with World of Bathrooms and the like. Maybe this is heaven. Enjoy your virgins.
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Re: developments in cork

Postby Aidan » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:14 pm

Have to agree with Lex, - it will be required in the medium term - 2015 on, but if the Dunkettle interchange could be dealt with properly (and KRR, BandonRd and Sarsfield RD), its not an immediate priority. In any case, the NRR would only work as advertised if the zoning and planning situation would be rigorously adhered to, and development at junctions along its length prevented. Much better off giving the Mallow-Midleton commuter rail time to bed in and have some effect before building completely new roads.

Two light rail loops, between the railway station and Bishopstown, and te South Mall out to Douglas, would a much better way of spending the money.
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Re: developments in cork

Postby jungle » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:59 pm

Torquemada wrote:Hi All,
Does anyone have an update on the situation at Cork airport?When is the new terminal now opening?Wasnt it meant to be aound now?Alos, any update on the funding of the new terminal?Has the 2independent" report now been published?
Thanks

As I understand it, the current plan is for it to open for arrivals on July 10th. On July 17th, it will open for departures for charter flights and on July 24th for departures on all flights. Having people not knowing where they are departing from sounds like a recipe for confusion, but that seems to be the planned approach.

On the NRR, I think it splits into two sections - between the Limerick and Dublin roads and from the Limerick road to Ballincollig. The first of these is needed sooner. At the moment traffic from the Limerick road is feeding into the city centre or small suburban roads regardless of its destination. It should be linked in to the existing ring road network and also have easier access to the port. The second strikes me as something of a vanity project. I can't imagine the traffic volumes from the Limerick road towards West Cork and Ballincollig require a road like that proposed yet. In the medium term, a decent link road from the old Blarney Road (Kerry Pike Road) to the Lee Road would suffice.
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Re: developments in cork

Postby mickeydocs » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:23 pm

Aidan wrote:Have to agree with Lex, - it will be required in the medium term - 2015 on, but if the Dunkettle interchange could be dealt with properly (and KRR, BandonRd and Sarsfield RD), its not an immediate priority. In any case, the NRR would only work as advertised if the zoning and planning situation would be rigorously adhered to, and development at junctions along its length prevented. Much better off giving the Mallow-Midleton commuter rail time to bed in and have some effect before building completely new roads.

Two light rail loops, between the railway station and Bishopstown, and te South Mall out to Douglas, would a much better way of spending the money.




Aidan,
So you would take infrastructural funds aimed at easing the current imbalance between the north and south side and spend it entirely on light rail for the southside?

Agreed about light rail, but not about further exacerbating the unequal investments north and south of the Lee.
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Re: developments in cork

Postby Aidan » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:38 pm

You mean, would I spend money on public transport where the vast majority of the public actually live?

Funnily enough, yes I would.

In any case, the NRR would benefit the southside a lot more than the northside, given that its main function would be to take non local traffic off the South Link and route it around the north of the city, freeing up the commuter hell that is the South Link. The biggest benficiary on the north side would be, as jungle pointed out, in reducing the traffic that clogs up the Ballyvolane area. The CASP makes very clear the intention to develop new population centres along the railway line to the north of the city, in time, those (in the Monard/Rathpeacon/Blarney area) will necessitate new road infrastructure on the scale of the NRR, but in the interim, I'd prefer to see those new developments grow around the railway first, while at the same time addressing the public transport problems in the city centre..
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Re: developments in cork

Postby bosco » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:47 pm

jungle wrote:On the NRR, I think it splits into two sections - between the Limerick and Dublin roads and from the Limerick road to Ballincollig. The first of these is needed sooner. At the moment traffic from the Limerick road is feeding into the city centre or small suburban roads regardless of its destination. It should be linked in to the existing ring road network and also have easier access to the port. The second strikes me as something of a vanity project. I can't imagine the traffic volumes from the Limerick road towards West Cork and Ballincollig require a road like that proposed yet. In the medium term, a decent link road from the old Blarney Road (Kerry Pike Road) to the Lee Road would suffice.


I have to stronly disagree with you on this one, jungle. As it stands, traffic from west Cork, Kerry, Ballincollig, Ovens and the southern suburbs of the city must travel through the city centre or Sunday's Well to get access to the northdside of the city, North county Cork, Limerick etc (unless they use completely inadequate country lanes between Macroom and Blarney). The amount of heavy goods vehicles using Shanakiel for example is unsustainable and the road network in the area is entirely unsuitable for this purpose. Likewise the morning and evening rush hour traffic on the country roads around Kerrypike, Inniscara, Tower etc is dangerous as well as stressful for those stuck in it or living near it.

The completion of the ring road around the city is essential to reignite the stagnated growth of the north and west sides of the city, and to divert the thousands of vehicles that use other less suitable routes every day. My only concern is that those involved in planning and selecting the route do not repeat the mistakes made in Dublin by choosing a route too close to the city. Also, for the road to fulfil its purpose, the designers should only put interchanges where absolutely necessary, and avoid building too many link roads.

As for the airport... I'd agree that segregating departing traffic will cause some confusion, but I can see where they're coming from. Now that the exams are over in the schools, the chaos is really going to start. The major problem this time of year is congestion - primarily with charter flights. If they can get those crowds out of the old terminal then it might just cope with another summer peak season. Also, any teething problems that become apparent in the immediate aftermath of commencing operations in the new terminal could be resolved before the scheduled airlines move operations; thus avoiding pissing off the best clients!

Compared to last summer, Ryanair and Aer Lingus now have extra planes based in Cork so it will be even more chock-a-block.
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Re: developments in cork

Postby mickeydocs » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:49 am

Aidan wrote:You mean, would I spend money on public transport where the vast majority of the public actually live?

Funnily enough, yes I would.

In any case, the NRR would benefit the southside a lot more than the northside, given that its main function would be to take non local traffic off the South Link and route it around the north of the city, freeing up the commuter hell that is the South Link. The biggest benficiary on the north side would be, as jungle pointed out, in reducing the traffic that clogs up the Ballyvolane area. The CASP makes very clear the intention to develop new population centres along the railway line to the north of the city, in time, those (in the Monard/Rathpeacon/Blarney area) will necessitate new road infrastructure on the scale of the NRR, but in the interim, I'd prefer to see those new developments grow around the railway first, while at the same time addressing the public transport problems in the city centre..



what's the population divide between north and south of the lee?
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Re: developments in cork

Postby lisam » Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:09 pm

obviously Aidan has never driven up through mayfield down through ballyvolane to get onto the Blackpool bypass. The amount of trucks using that route coming from the tunnel, and serving the docks is too much for the existing road network as well as all the cars coming from the tunnel, Then the City Council wanted to locate a park and ride at one of the busiest junctions in Mayfield. Thankfully that was put to bed

They need to provide a better road network from the Mallow Rd to the Dunkettle Interchange.
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Re: developments in cork

Postby Aidan » Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:36 pm

obviously Aidan has never driven up through mayfield down through ballyvolane to get onto the Blackpool bypass.


Not alone have I driven it, I've driven it in a truck. I already pointed to this being the major problem in a previous post (Yesterday -06:38). Yes its a pain, but the closure of the sugar factory will take a lot of traffic off that route for the worst part of the year. And yes, the NRR needs to get built in the near future, but it wouldn't be my first priority for Cork right now.
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Re: developments in cork

Postby lisam » Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:31 pm

it's high priority if you're living in the area. The closure of the sugar factory has made no difference to the traffic.

Twenty minutes is a long time to drive just half a mile!
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Re: developments in cork

Postby Aidan » Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:55 pm

The closure of the sugar factory has made no difference to the traffic.


I'd be very surprised if it has. The factory is only closed since January, and the beet season runs/ran from Sept to December. East Cork being one of the main sugar beet producing regions in the country, and all that.
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Re: developments in cork

Postby lisam » Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:58 pm

you made the point about the sugar factory
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