developments in cork

Re: developments in cork

Postby Lincoln » Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:26 pm

Mill on Fr Matthew Quay development: "Jacobs "Mill

what a horror show-! surely this does not conform to the conditions of planning! I believe that Murray O Laoire Architects who prepared the planning permission for the mill have had no involvement in the construction of the hotel buildng and that there is effectively no professional guidance on the project other than the structural engineer! this is like the bad ol' days when the architect was regarded as only good enough to get the planning and then is not required when you have to build it .

They should be injuncted and forced to build as per the planning conditions - this building is too important and prominent to let a developer get away with such shoddy treatment of our city fabric.
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Re: developments in cork

Postby who_me » Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:09 pm

Lincoln wrote:Mill on Fr Matthew Quay development: "Jacobs "Mill

what a horror show-! surely this does not conform to the conditions of planning! I believe that Murray O Laoire Architects who prepared the planning permission for the mill have had no involvement in the construction of the hotel buildng and that there is effectively no professional guidance on the project other than the structural engineer! this is like the bad ol' days when the architect was regarded as only good enough to get the planning and then is not required when you have to build it .

They should be injuncted and forced to build as per the planning conditions - this building is too important and prominent to let a developer get away with such shoddy treatment of our city fabric.


Incidentally, what are the plans for the open section in the front wall? I assume it's for a glass frontage, but it would be pretty horrible if it ended up being PVC bordered glass panes.
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Postby lexington » Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:16 pm

who_me wrote:Incidentally, what are the plans for the open section in the front wall? I assume it's for a glass frontage, but it would be pretty horrible if it ended up being PVC bordered glass panes.


The frontage, as par the granted plans, calls for a glazed frontage.
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Re: developments in cork

Postby POM » Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:59 pm

Hope you'd a nice holiday Lex.

Just on the plans for the Muskerry Service Station at the Western Road. I had a little visit to view the plans for myself over the week. I saw today only 3 objections lodged on the project. Honestly I have to say of all the projects in planning at the moment this is perhaps the one that is ripe for controversy. It happens to be a rather awful dire contraption. The architects were marked as DTA Associates which I understand is Derek Tynan work again, the same team that gave us the awful Victoria Mills, the even worse extension to Victoria Mills and the equally terrible office building planned for Crosses Green. Again DTA seems on an ambitious mission to even top its other mistakes with what is essentially a half glass, half stone wall pair of blocks. From the photomontages it seems the buildings will jut close to the roadside blocking views down the Western Road of the infinitely more attractive new Jurys and create an eyesore viewing up the Western Road from the city along the river. It essentially rises up facing the road as a bare stone wall with only a few slits for windows. Awful awful stuff.
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Re: developments in cork

Postby kite » Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:09 am

Lincoln wrote:Mill on Fr Matthew Quay development: "Jacobs "Mill

what a horror show-! surely this does not conform to the conditions of planning! I believe that Murray O Laoire Architects who prepared the planning permission for the mill have had no involvement in the construction of the hotel buildng and that there is effectively no professional guidance on the project other than the structural engineer! this is like the bad ol' days when the architect was regarded as only good enough to get the planning and then is not required when you have to build it .

They should be injuncted and forced to build as per the planning conditions - this building is too important and prominent to let a developer get away with such shoddy treatment of our city fabric.


:o I agree that Murray O Laoire Architects seem to be redundant in the redevelopment of the Jacobs Mill site.
Tom McCarthy and Tom Kelly are taking the same “direct labor” type approach to the Kingsley hotel redevelopment, again with disastrous results.
It must be embarrassing for Murray O Laoire, or any other professional company to have their names linked in any way with this type of development, (that said, wasn’t it a “professional” body that gave Victoria Mills an award last year?)
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Re: developments in cork

Postby mickeydocs » Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:26 pm

POM wrote:Hope you'd a nice holiday Lex.

Just on the plans for the Muskerry Service Station at the Western Road. I had a little visit to view the plans for myself over the week. I saw today only 3 objections lodged on the project. Honestly I have to say of all the projects in planning at the moment this is perhaps the one that is ripe for controversy. It happens to be a rather awful dire contraption. The architects were marked as DTA Associates which I understand is Derek Tynan work again, the same team that gave us the awful Victoria Mills, the even worse extension to Victoria Mills and the equally terrible office building planned for Crosses Green. Again DTA seems on an ambitious mission to even top its other mistakes with what is essentially a half glass, half stone wall pair of blocks. From the photomontages it seems the buildings will jut close to the roadside blocking views down the Western Road of the infinitely more attractive new Jurys and create an eyesore viewing up the Western Road from the city along the river. It essentially rises up facing the road as a bare stone wall with only a few slits for windows. Awful awful stuff.



Can someone please post some pics of the jurys site if they get a chance? It would be very much appreciated by an exiled corkonian.
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Re: developments in cork

Postby POM » Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:24 pm

kite wrote::o I agree that Murray O Laoire Architects seem to be redundant in the redevelopment of the Jacobs Mill site.
Tom McCarthy and Tom Kelly are taking the same “direct labor” type approach to the Kingsley hotel redevelopment, again with disastrous results.
It must be embarrassing for Murray O Laoire, or any other professional company to have their names linked in any way with this type of development, (that said, wasn’t it a “professional” body that gave Victoria Mills an award last year?)


I don't think the building projects are direct labour. O'Flynn Banteer Builders are working on both sites for the developer.
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Postby lexington » Sat Jun 24, 2006 1:28 pm

I'm just putting this post up here to answer some questions I get asked quite often so as to clear up or inform those who seek details. Sorry if I step to one-side from prime topics for a moment.

1. Aviation Development

I posted a few weeks back of news on a possible aviation development related to Cork which I would try and make known before July. I have held back on details as I do not have clarity on a number of issues - again, I may post some details as 'speculation' in the absence of such details. However the development does not relate to Cork Airport or the Cork Airport Authority.



2. Abercrombie & Fitch

Apparently some persons have not forgotten the post I made last July (2005) regarding the prospect of an expansion by highly popular US-based fashion chain Abercrombie & Fitch into Europe and possibly Ireland. The details here have mixed and matched over the last few months following a stir up in management with the company, most notably the resignation of Chief Operating Officer Robert Singer in August 2005 after only 15 months with the company. It was Mr. Singer who had championed the expansion of the chain into Europe and aided the set-up of a European-division based in Milan and headed up by former Gucci executive Francesco Giannaccari. A&F had agreed terms to open its 1st European store at Burlington Gardens situated off Bond Street, Oxford Street and Saville Row in London. The unit which A&F had intended to occupy was tenanted by retailler Jil Sander. Under Mr. Singer, A&F sought to open up to 20 stores across Europe - Ireland had indeed been cited as a destination for up to 2 possible stores in the short-to-medium term although this was never formally confirmed. Other locations cited included additional stores in the UK (and specifically London), Spain, Italy and unspecified Scandinavian locations. CEO Mike Jefferies has indicated recently that A&F is still committed to expansion in the UK, Canada and selected European markets but will do so cautiously. As I understand it, again, Ireland is well positioned given the generally high mark-up by many recent international trading names established here. Along with the UK, Ireland is increasingly seen as a 'safe' location for expanding US chains such as Guess? Jeans who are eyeing up a unit in a prospective retail development by Paddy McKillen's Clarendon Properties just off Grafton Street in Dublin. Based on information a few months old, were any expansion into Ireland initiated, Dublin would represent the initial trading location (preferably city centre) with additional moves made based on the store's performance, however regional expansions were not ruled out - though the individual markets remained unassessed. Outside the UK, other possible locations shortlisted for investigation included Barcelona and Milan. No set timeframe for a roll-out is clear. Undoubtedly such a prized catch would represent nothing short of a coup for proposals in locations like Academy Street, Joe O'Donovan's plans or even the plans of Manor Park Homebuilders. Wishful thinking perhaps? :rolleyes:

The company operates 352 Abercrombie & Fitch (premium brand) stores, 163 Abercrombie (children's clothing) stores, 289 Hollister Co. (slightly lower cost clothing) stores and 6 RUEHT stores across the US and Canada.
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Re: developments in cork

Postby kite » Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:24 pm

POM wrote:I don't think the building projects are direct labour. O'Flynn Banteer Builders are working on both sites for the developer.


:)
What I meant by direct type labor is that Tom McCarthy’ Mills development and his and Tom Kelly’s Kingsley development are been directed by their own management team.
Any snags or penalties fall back on the owners, not the builder, engineers etc. An unusual way of doing business on developments of this size I would think?
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Re: developments in cork

Postby lowrise » Sat Jun 24, 2006 9:55 pm

In connection with victoria cross area , could any enlighten me as to whats happening to topcar garage at orchard road.thanks.
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Re: developments in cork

Postby kite » Sun Jun 25, 2006 9:27 am

lowrise wrote:In connection with victoria cross area , could any enlighten me as to whats happening to topcar garage at orchard road.thanks.



The family that bought the Top Car site has approached residents living on Orchard Road to get a bigger footprint in the area. One resident agreed a sale but the new owners of Top Car delayed signing final contracts until the ABP outcome on the heating and plumbing site nearby, the contracts on what I hear is a large site have now completed and the owners are following up on other purchase possibilities in the area.
(Also see Lex's post 2072 page 83 for more info on this)
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Re: developments in cork

Postby PVC King » Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:43 pm

daniel_7 wrote: This also shows thiugh that the nortside does really lose out on alot of development as a result of the north ring road delayment. This really is one of the most important developments for the city I think there should be more effort put into making this a top priority for the city!


If the greatest reason for the ring road at a cost of €600m is that the North of the City doesn't have enough motormalls then it would be a real waste of money. This is particularly relevant given that the airport had airbridges witheld on the basis of cost. The focus needs to be creating an impression for those who wish to enter the City and for projects in the City and not a project that keeps people out of the City.
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Re: developments in cork

Postby Torquemada » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:32 pm

Hi All,
Does anyone have an update on the situation at Cork airport?When is the new terminal now opening?Wasnt it meant to be aound now?Alos, any update on the funding of the new terminal?Has the 2independent" report now been published?
Thanks
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Re: developments in cork

Postby jdivision » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:34 pm

lexington wrote:2. Abercrombie & Fitch

regarding the prospect of an expansion by highly popular US-based fashion chain Abercrombie & Fitch into Europe and possibly Ireland. .


From The Sunday Business Post in February of last year:
The US fashion retailer Abercrombie & Fitch has held preliminary talks about opening a store in Ireland, The Sunday Business Post has learned. The retailer is planning a ``substantial'' expansion into Europe and retail sources said the prospect of opening here first would be attractive given the strength of the economy, robust retail sales and the similarities between the customer base here and in Britain.
Abercrombie & Fitch targets mid-market consumers, typically aged between 16 and 25 and is one of the best known brands in American fashion retailing. Any Irish store would not open until late 2006 at the earliest. ``They're a very desirable tenant and they know it,'' said one Irish retail source.


I couldn't say it at the time but they have held talks about opening in Dundrum Town Centre but they were described as "difficult". Will check in again to see if there's any more news there. Just to let you know Lex, Guess? opened in McKillen's scheme last week. Think it may be a franchise though.
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Re: developments in cork

Postby Angry Rebel » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:53 pm

Thomond Park wrote:The focus needs to be creating an impression for those who wish to enter the City and for projects in the City and not a project that keeps people out of the City.


If you keep those who don't need to be in the city out of it (e.g through traffic) it creates a more pleasant environment for those who do enter the city! ;)
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Re: developments in cork

Postby lisam » Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:25 pm

i wouldnt class Blarney, Little Island of Fota to be on the southside!!
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Re: developments in cork

Postby PVC King » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:33 pm

I think that both Local Authorities in Cork deserve recognition for the development of the CASP plan which very clearly plots out a sound platform for Cork to build upon. When one compares the way both local authorities co-operated on this with similar relationships in Limerick and Galway you get the feeling that you are talking about a region that can deliver. I hope that central government rewards proper planning with the funds to ensure the sustainable development of the City.
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Dennehy's Cross Outcome due this Wednesday

Postby lexington » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:43 am

:o Wednesday, June 28th 2006 - that's the expected date for a decision by An Bord Pleanala regarding Frinailla Developments plans for Dennehy's Cross. The scheme of 163 mixed residential units, commercial/community facilities and triple-deck basement car-parking designed by O'Mahony Pike Architects was first lodged with Cork City Council on the 30th September 2005 and granted on the 14th February 2006 subject to a reduction of 7 apartments from the northern block. The scheme garnered praise from numerous sources and was favourably commented on in the planner's final report. Despite this, an appeal was brought against the renewal project - Frinailla too appealed conditions including those related to contribution fees on a first party basis. Though the final decision date may waiver, subject to ABP decision, the project should begin works come October 2006 when the Dennehy's Cross site formally hands over to the developers. A further application is expected as part of a 2nd phase on the Dennehy's Cross Garage showrooms at the south-west end of the crossroads later this year.

Image
The scheme, whose southern block is seen here fronting Magazine Road, will contain a mix of residential units and green-space/amenity area between the 2 blocks.

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who_me - the docks adjacent to the IAWS (R&H Hall) Silos, Kennedy Quay, are usually busy during weekdays but can be easily accessed on weekends by the public. As part of the redevelopment of the docklands, this area will provide a highly important element in that - almost more than anywhere else - it officiates a linkage between the city centre, the emerging civic quarter around City Hall and the South Docklands. Expect the building line to be brought forward, closer to the waterfront - with riverwalks/boardwalks running along the quayside hopefully line with restaurants, bars, nightclubs, cafes and shops.
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Re: Dennehy's Cross Outcome due this Wednesday

Postby kite » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:12 pm

[quote="lexington"]:o Wednesday, June 28th 2006 - that's the expected date for a decision by An Bord Pleanala regarding Frinailla Developments plans for Dennehy's Cross. The scheme of 163 mixed residential units, commercial/community facilities and triple-deck basement car-parking designed by O'Mahony Pike Architects was first lodged with Cork City Council on the 30th September 2005 and granted on the 14th February 2006 subject to a reduction of 7 apartments from the northern block. The scheme garnered praise from numerous sources and was favourably commented on in the planner's final report. Despite this, an appeal was brought against the renewal project - Frinailla too appealed conditions including those related to contribution fees on a first party basis. Though the final decision date may waiver, subject to ABP decision, the project should begin works come October 2006 when the Dennehy's Cross site formally hands over to the developers. A further application is expected as part of a 2nd phase on the Dennehy's Cross Garage showrooms at the south-west end of the crossroads later this year.

Work is due to begin on Frinailla’s site at Dennehy’s Cross (subject to ABP appeal) in October, but only on the site now occupied by the panel beating shop (Magazine Road).
I am told that Top Car is to occupy the remainder of the site on a temporary basis until the Blarney Motor Mall is ready. Work on the main part of the Dennehy’s garage will therefore be pushed forward to 2007 (April at the earliest)
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Re: developments in cork

Postby POM » Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:20 pm

Lex just on your docklands post, I am particularly impressed by the way Howard have taken such a strong position with relation to the docks. Clearly their movement has allowed them secure some pretty important sites that no doubt others will be grinding their teeth with envy over the next few years. I'm glad that Howard are involved given the generally high finish of buildings they seem to have completed around Cork over the last few years.
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Re: developments in cork

Postby ewankennedy » Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:24 pm

Was in Marks and spencers the other day and theyre currently revamping their Merchants quay store. I'm surprised they havent opened up another store in the city at this stage. I was trying to think of possible future locations that could work for them and was thinking Horgans quay and, or maybe a store in the south docklands would be very attractive locations.

Anyone know anymore on how event centre plans are progressing on Horgans quay? I hope its a decent landmark structure not a boxy Point type building.
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Dunnes Stores Redevelopment for Patrick's Street greenlit!

Postby lexington » Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:58 pm

:o Dunnes Stores' planned €30m redevelopment of its founding store at 102 - 105 Saint Patrick's Street has been given the go-ahead by Cork City Council in advance of the scheduled due date of July 17th 2006. The prime development involves the demolition of an entire assembled block fronting Saint Patrick's Street and stretching back to Drawbridge Street - it is also bordered by Bowling Green Street to the west (across which O'Callaghan Properties have designs for their large Academy Street project) and William Street to the east - and the construction of a multi-level block over 2 basement levels. The initial design by Bertie Pope & Associates was lodged back in October of 2005 and called for a 6-storey over basement development with convenience retailling at basement level with comparison retail and restaurant over 5-levels, above which existed a further plant and storage level. The facades between 103 and 105 Saint Patrick's Street were earmarked for retention. Concerns regarding bulk, massing and design were expressed by Cork City Council, subsequently Further Information was requested in November 2005 and answered in May 2006. Importantly, under the initial planning assessment note was given to the lack of live/active uses fronting Bowling Green and William Streets - a clearly stated objective of the Cork City Development Plan 2004.

The revised design was undertaken jointly by Bertie Pope & Associates and Douglas Wallace Architects. Revisions to the scheme included a reduction in height with a significant volume of plant equipment relocated to an additional storage basement level. Alterations were addressed to the frontages of both Drawbridge and Saint Patrick's Streets - including projected fenestration at the corners of Saint Patrick's Street/Bowling Green Street and Drawbridge Street/William Street - these projections were removed by planning condition given their overbearing effect on the streetscapes. Revisions to the roof detailling have also been set for review by condition. Despite these alterations, the planning report commented, "Overall the Further Information response is regarded as achieving design improvements and alterations that will lead to an architectural and commercial development which enhances significantly the vitality and attractiveness of the city centre."

General development levies weighed in just short of €1m. When complete, the project will represent Dunnes Stores' flagship facility in Cork and revitalise the historic premises which first lay home to the original Dunnes Stores opened by Ben Dunne Snr. in 1944.
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:o Coughlan de Keyser Architects have lodged additional information with Cork City Council regarding the much anticipated CentrePoint project for Clontarf Street. The proposal by DAT Partnership seeks to realise a 9-storey office building on a tiny triangular site bordered by Lower Oliver Plunkett Street to the south, Deane Street to the west and Clontarf Street to the east. The latest batch of information (the 4th batch to date!) is in repsonse to Cork City Council's request for further details highlighting that the previous round of information submitted was inadequate. The proposal has been significantly revised since its original inception and is now due scheduled for a decision on July 23rd 2006.
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Dirty Old Town

Postby lexington » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:00 pm

This is taken from a recent rant of mine concerning Cork's Future. In it, I noted a number of 'problems' I feared, if not overcome, would damage the successful realisation of Cork's development and regeneration. Among these fears is Cork's reputation as a 'litter blackspot'. Again walking the streets of the city today I felt compelled to post this - litter is an issue that needs to be tackled from the ground (literally) up, starting not simply with physical work, but also educational. It is a mindset that needs to be changed radically and rapidly. I can't help but sometimes blush with embarrassment at some eye-sores and littered places around the city.

As one of my friends commented to me recently as we discussed the situation, "If my wife was as dirty as Cork, I wouldn't be able for work in the morning".
---------------------------------------------------------------------

1. [i]Civic Pride/Maintenance - relates much more to the attitudes of persons and groups associated with the Cork region. As I walked Daunt Square and Saint Patrick's Street yesterday afternoon (and I have mentioned this extensively before) I was still struck by the volume of litter bleamishing the pavements. This is an issue I think that is far too casually dismissed. Social and environmental conscience is a nice concept - everyone agrees or at least agrees with novelty efforts for reasons of public image - however I don't think it is sufficiently taken to heart; this is evident by pacing Cork's city centre streets and suburbs. The same old tired agruments emerge from businesses, public bodies and the public alike - "It's too costly", "I have to take care of my business first and foremost, I don't have enough time or finance to meet the requirements for environmental care demanded", "That's what the street cleaners are for", "The City Council already spend X, Y and Z a year on environmental programs and are curently doing A, B and C". I am aware of all this but it still is not good enough and it is not working to what should be the appropriate standard. Environmental education needs to be forcefully drilled into the mindsets of children from nursery school non-stop until they reach their final year in Secondary School. Every litter bin in every street in Cork should be subdivided in paper, plastic, glass etc (of course some persons won't give 2 hoots about this - so enforce it with strictly regulated, performance-pay-related Litter Wardens who can work in conjunction with the Gardai (give them a linked radio frequency) to document, enforce and punish individuals there and then with community service for example (street cleaning etc) depending on the extent of the offence). The existing numeracy, monitoring and nature of bring sites around Cork is inadequate. Too often persons shove mixed-rubbish bags into the same slot of a recycle bin because there is no accounting for disregard. The recycle centre in Trim, Co. Meath is perhaps a good model for an organised, monitored and well structured Bring Site - more of this please in Cork.

Street-cleaning is often looked upon as a low-bracket job ~ an image which needs serious revision. I have observed some genuinely hard-working and attentive gentlemen and women on the streets of Cork fulfilling the roles of Sanitation Officers; however given the volume of city centre traffic (pedestrian and otherwise), the frequency of such work is insufficient. There is a need for more officers on the streets with the capacity to continuously clean paving (stains, chewing gum etc), collect and organise litter, weed unsightly vegetation non-stop 16 hours a day on all Cork's major city centre streets (in various shifts of course) with awards based on volume and extent of work. Yes this is a costly operation but it is an essential one which should under no circumstances be given second stroke. Cork features too prominently too often on Ireland's Annual Litter Black-spots list - walking the streets of the city today highlights the reasons why only too well.

All building proprietors by strictly enforced law should ensure the upkeep and presentation of their buildings - everything from paint, stains, watermarks, broken pipes, slates, signage, unsightly vegetation growth (moss, weeds etc) - should be regularly reviewed by assigned agents under the direction of an independently appointed body; perhaps in conjunction with reports by the aforementioned santitation officers who will be most frequently on the streets to observe such failings. Where funds are genuinely unavailable to carry out immediate works, perhaps an interest-based loan system may be made by the City Council to proprietors for instant works.

The attitude to our environment in Cork is as much a mindset issue as much as it is a capacity one. I've heard so many economic, social and not-my-problem arguments and I'm not convinced by any of them. Cork's presentation and environment is the responsibility of everyone. The long-term benefits (i.e. tourism, investment etc) are overlooked so easily on the basis that they are strategic and not immediate. A pity that must end. It's time to get your cleaning act in order Cork.
[/I]
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Re: Dirty Old Town

Postby kite » Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:29 pm

lexington wrote:
Also, as I passed 2 young drivers today forking out money to the clampers for not changing their parking disks in time - I noted the chauffer driven vehicle of Cork Lord Mayor (newly appointed Labour councillor Michael Ahern) parked on a Loading Bay on Patrick's Street at about 3pm. The Lord Mayor was doing the introductory rounds at the famour market - and his vehicle was untouched by Traffic Wardens and Gardai alike. Surely for a man on €80K a year as Lord Mayor, he could much better afford a parking ticket or clamp than part-timers or students.


:o Labour Party me arse…if this dude is “left wing” then Berti is a Monster Raving Looney RED!!
The arrogance of some councilors is truly sickening. “Do as I say, not as I do” Eh?
Come back to the party “Red Mick” (Barry), all is forgiven….
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Postby lexington » Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:50 am

[quote="kite"]:o Labour Party me arse…]

Not quite the point I was making - I'll remove that remark, lest it be misinterpreted. Its not a political point.
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