Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby PVC King » Tue May 16, 2006 12:43 pm

http://www.archiseek.com/content/showpost.php?p=32930&postcount=34

Critique the imagination that went into the above

And please answer the above and don't try another spin it is getting tiresome
PVC King
 

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby PDLL » Tue May 16, 2006 12:57 pm

Well, lets summarise the positions - Irish town houses are considered by some to be boring repetitive and lacking in imagination. Others consider Irish country houses to boring repetitive and lacking in imagination. Umm. What does this imply - a crisis of the imagination in Irish architectrue? Time to start making urban dwellings more interesting, more diversified and more habitable socially and physically than their rural counterparts???? In short, time to give people a genuine reason why they might actually want to live in Irish towns because it is quite obvious that at the present moment in Ireland's architectural history, the seems to be a lack of such a reason.
PDLL
Member
 
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:18 pm

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby phil » Tue May 16, 2006 1:41 pm

PDLL, I think you make some very fair points about the quality of newly built houses in suburban areas and apartments being built in cities around Ireland. You also make good points about play facilities etc etc. I think, as you are saying, demand plays a significant role in this (it must do), so this is what needs to be questioned. Glad to see you have moved away from the Google trends issue. I really dont think it tells us anything, or adds any facts to the discussion.
phil
Old Master
 
Posts: 1467
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 12:32 pm

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby Frank Taylor » Tue May 16, 2006 3:47 pm

PDLL wrote:Well, lets summarise the positions - Irish town houses are considered by some to be boring repetitive and lacking in imagination. Others consider Irish country houses to boring repetitive and lacking in imagination. Umm. What does this imply - a crisis of the imagination in Irish architectrue? Time to start making urban dwellings more interesting, more diversified and more habitable socially and physically than their rural counterparts???? In short, time to give people a genuine reason why they might actually want to live in Irish towns because it is quite obvious that at the present moment in Ireland's architectural history, the seems to be a lack of such a reason.
I completely agree with this. One-off housing is not the answer but neither is suburban characterless tedium. We need some positive suggestions for urban living patterns rather than the emphasis always being on what's to be discouraged.
Frank Taylor
Senior Member
 
Posts: 530
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:38 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby PDLL » Tue May 16, 2006 4:18 pm

I agree with that sentiment. It is very easy to continually make fairly 'high-horse' comments on one-offs. It is easy to castigate those who live in the so-called 'McMansions' - what is more difficult, however, is to ask why does a fair proportion of the population chose to inflict upon themselves an unnessary daily commute and the alleged disadvantages of living in remote locations. In short, they must not be able to get what they are looking for in terms of lifestyle options inIreland's towns. Now, thats where it seems to get difficult for the conservationist and architectural community because to date all that seems to be on offer is are three bedroom plaster-board boxes that have a standard toilet under the stairs, a small utility room if you are lucky, an en suite, and a box room. You know the type - every town has at least 300 or 400 hundred of them. The facade might change now and then - a bit more dash round the door way and a little bit more red-brick under the windows, depending on the radical changes in vogue taking place at the time, but basically they are ALL the same. So, it seems that some people don't want to live in these and would rather take the option of driving to work across the nation's boreens and for this they are castigated as haters of the environment and aesthetic dilettantes. Lets turn the question around - who is failing who - are these people failing the nation by chosing to live in so-called McMansions or is it the architectural profession and developers that are failing the nation by not providing real alternatives at real prices for the people? Lets face it, standard urban housing in ireland is as I have described above. Thos ethat can afford a little more land or a bigger house within an urban area basically have the equivalent of a so-called McMansion in an urban setting - nothing more. Same style, same shape. Yes, there are the occasional designer pads built now and then - the occasionally flirtation with the imagination, but those flirtations are usually priced well outside of the range of the avergae irish Joe Soap. So what do we do - instead of actually criticising the quality of domestic urban design in ireland, we berate the people who choose to find the only real solution available to them - build on a bit of land given to them by their family in a standard modern rural house type. We sit in judgement of them because they didn't hire Norma Foster to redesign the collapsing corragated iron shed on their land into a 2 bedroom country retreat with mezzanine level. Architects should take a long look into the one-off mirror and see the reality that is staring back at them.
PDLL
Member
 
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 3:18 pm

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby GrahamH » Tue May 16, 2006 10:17 pm

This is mostly true, though exactly how architects have a role in this considering many developers don't even employ them in the first place I'm not quite sure. Then again, as we are seeing, housing developments are increasingly being marketed as 'architect designed', as if something to be trumpeted from the rooftops, in spite of the units often being more or less the same as any other humdrum fare going up about the place - just this time round some prestige plum brick is being used with a matching a cobble-lock driveway.

Generally speaking though, housing with an architect involved immediately sees an improvement in proportions especially, and materials used - though this could be as much down to the influence of type of developer who is willing to use architects in the first place as it is the architects themselves.
Still, what a house, a dwelling place, should look like is still very much perceived though traditional glasses by the public in general - this above all hasn't changed in the slightest. It's still the pitched roofed, multi-chimneyed model that dominates the public mindset, and is going to continue to be built as long as there is demand for it. Considering a home is one of a person’s most basic needs, naturally they're going to go for the most comforting, familiar, reassuring model possible, so I'm not sure how this is going to change.

It's ridiculous the way apartment living is still held with such contempt amongst large swathes of the population in 2006. Any time you pass a development of them going up with other people you hear the usual 'more bloody apartments' and affected sighs. In the media in general in Ireland apartment living is equally ridiculed - referred to as apartment 'blocks' with all the loading the term infers, or talked about in a manner suggesting the destruction of our towns and cities, and how it's a disgrace that such ugly modrin buildings are allowed to be built in my shopping district that I now have to look at for an hour on Saturday before driving home to my sprawling suburb, the birthplace and be all and end all of what a dwelling place should be.

Even on the train recently talking to someone as pulling into Connolly Station we were looking at the gradually rising 5/6 storey apartments going up in Spencer Dock and alongside the Northern Line, and it was suggested that 'Dublin is going to the dogs with the density of things nowadays, people being shovelled in cheek by jowl' etc! :eek:

Also recently on the train (you'd have been in heaven PDLL) I frantically gasped for help, clawing at the windows pinned in against the wall as three people at the table started chatting about building or their newly finished one-off houses, positively glowing roigsht about the sites and their septic tanks and fitted kitchens. One man also had a friend who's just completed a mansion of a place, a MANSION of a place in case you didn't hear, outside Drogheda. Apparently you can see it from the second bridge on the motorway - modern Ireland personified.

Anyway, aside from the most unusual yellow and black glossy kitchen units that must have cost a fortune, he's alas having his fair share of problems too as the neighbouring farmer, for whatever bizarre reason, decided to leave his cattle roaming freely across his land, only they all decided they didn’t want grass any more and wandered over to this new spectacle on the landscape and proceeded to strip all the leaves from his new hedging surrounding the site :D. Most of it had to be replaced :D :D :D
Oneself had to suppress the sniggers with a cough or three.
These urbanites and their fancy notions - I don't know...
GrahamH
Old Master
 
Posts: 4589
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:24 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby PVC King » Tue May 23, 2006 1:08 pm

The guidebook is well stocked with criticism of Irish towns and villages, with the ritually derided Irish beach resort taking its bi-annual panning.

However, Bundoran, Co Donegal, is deemed not to be as bad as some might allege. While it is criticised - "it's hard to avoid disappointment if the town is your first sight of Donegal" - its entry glows alongside that of Tramore.

The Co Waterford resort town is "surrounded by ghastly housing developments and the strand itself is marred by adjacent amusement arcades, caravan parks and fast-food outlets." Visit out of season, it suggests, or don't visit at all.

The best the authors could muster by way of faint praise for Larne, Co Antrim was that "its main street bustles with shoppers". Otherwise, they write, "it is a grim and ugly place, paint-splattered with loyalist slogans, symbols and insignia".

Co Carlow "has almost negligible appeal", while counties Tipperary and Waterford vie for the title of Ireland's dullest, though both might be pushed close by Co Limerick, "undoubtedly the least attractive county on Ireland's west coast, characterised by ugly industrial development along the Shannon and drab, undulating farmland".

However, Ireland's large cities are roundly praised. In a rhapsodic review, Dublin is described as "a thrusting, dynamic place, which despite its size remains utterly beguiling".

The Giants Causeway, the Rock of Cashel, Connemara, Co Kerry and west Cork, among other destinations, are cited as exemplars of Ireland's unique attraction.

Tourism officials in Bundoran and Tramore may take some consolation that they did not suffer the same fate as Portadown, Coleraine and Portlaoise, their attraction for the tourist so little-regarded that none was deemed to merit a mention.


Any thoughts?
PVC King
 

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby StephenC » Wed May 24, 2006 3:58 pm

Im very familiar with Tramore and I must say I never stop thinking what a golden opportunity the town is. It could be so lovely but unfortunately the tackiest elements of seaside town economics hold sway... not to mention the dump right behind the beach. A great contrast is with Dunmore East which still remains a charming coast town, although it has recently seen a huge amount of building.
User avatar
StephenC
Old Master
 
Posts: 2497
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby StephenC » Wed May 24, 2006 4:18 pm

Its good to see the same issues debated north of the border...even if it is in that particular Northern style :p

Protection of Northern countryside debated
Dan Keenan, Northern News Editor

Assembly members have voted to establish a working party to "develop a balanced policy" for sustainable rural development and environmental protection.

The proposal was opposed by the SDLP, which had earlier submitted a highly critical private member's motion condemning the Northern Ireland Office for its announcement of severe restrictions on planning permission in rural areas.

Last March, Lord Rooker, the minister in charge of rural affairs, proposed a virtual ban on new single buildings to counter "bungalow blight". He pointed out that the number of rural planning approvals in the North had soared from 1,790 in 1991 to 9,520 in 2004, with indications that the latest annual figure will be well over 12,000.

However, Assembly members on both sides criticised Planning Policy Statement 14, as it is known, warning it would further accelerate the decline in rural populations and cause the loss of 10,000 jobs.

Sinn Féin boycotted the debate arguing they would not be part to a powerless talking shop.

Opening the debate, Patsy McGlone (SDLP, Mid Ulster) said: "This document shows no knowledge of our rural communities, displays no awareness of rural society and no consciousness of the sense of place and belonging that goes with those communities."

His motion was opposed by Jim Wells (DUP, South Down), whose amendment called for the establishment of a working party to develop a balanced policy for the sustainable development of the countryside and protection of the environment.

"I think the one thing we are all agreed on is that something has to be done to prevent the indiscriminate loss of our countryside through speculative development." The statistics were frightening, said Mr Wells, who has backed a campaign in Co Meath against a waste incinerator.

While the population of Northern Ireland was 1.7 million, he said, they passed three times more permission for individual buildings in the countryside than in Britain with 58 million people.

Leslie Cree (Ulster Unionist, North Down) supported the amendment but criticised the "quick fix, one size fits all approach" of direct rule.

Kieran McCarthy (Alliance, Strangford) expressed concerns about the restrictions the new proposals put on farming communities to sell their land.

"Rural people must not be forced away from their birthplace to towns and cities," he said.

Independent unionist Paul Berry, a former member of the DUP who left that party after press reports about his private life, made his first contribution to the Assembly.

The DUP amended motion was passed by 35 votes to 17.

© The Irish Times
User avatar
StephenC
Old Master
 
Posts: 2497
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby MT » Thu May 25, 2006 10:44 pm

Its good to see the same issues debated north of the border...even if it is in that particular Northern style


Hmm, no doubt this will turn into another phoney cultural war like everything else up here. :rolleyes:

Can we expect to see our two ‘delightful’ leading parties partition the North along architectural lines when the new super councils get going?
Attachments

[The extension bmp has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

MT
Member
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:10 pm

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby PVC King » Fri May 26, 2006 10:50 am

Very funny image :D

The North much like ourselves have asssessed their options in relation to sustainable development and made their decision it appears to have been a good decision at government level to stop the unchecked development of the countryside prior to a regime being introduced that will both protect the environment and provide for those who wish to remain in rural communities as opposed to the free for all where urban economic migrants can take their part of the planning free for all that exists in many Southern counties.

I find the article in news section below highly encouraging following on from the Cloughjordan Eco-Village viable alternatives appear to be emerging.


Most of all, it's good design for Tipperary town

An architectural competition for Tipperary town resulted in three winning designs. Trouble is, they're still on paper. Emma Cullinan reports

THERE'S a housing scheme in Tipperary town which is positively utopian. The houses have a traditional appearance, with white walls and pitched roofs, but they have open-plan interiors to suit modern life. Like farm buildings of old, they are based around courtyards, allowing for privacy and protection, yet the buildings are grouped with neighbouring properties along fingers of greenery, to encourage residential relations.


These small neighbourhoods sit within a wider green area that is shared by the complete housing scheme. The housing scheme has a community centre and crèche within walking distance of all the houses.

There are play areas dotted around, also within skipping distance of each house, and pedestrians and cycles take precedence over cars in the road layouts.

This is a private housing scheme of three, four and five-bed houses designed to encourage people back into town living.

It provides many answers to the problems of today - including one-off housing in the outskirts of towns and desolate city centres - yet sadly it only exists on paper, the work of three architectural practices.

"We've addressed everyday problems in our scheme and come up with solutions," says Sean Carew of Carew Kelly Architects, one of three firms of architects who shared first place in a competition to design a scheme for this 30.7-acre site in Tipperary town.

Tipperary council ran the contest to try and attract middle-income earners into the town.

"The purpose of the project is to raise awareness amongst relevant sectors of society of the significant potential Tipperary town offers to middle-income families in terms of quality environment," said the competition brief.

It called upon architects to "create a development with a difference" and produce "a highly visual document" that could be used as "an effective marketing document for both the scheme and the town".

The three firms who won the competition with three different proposals - Carew Kelly, Dublin; MCO Architecture, Dublin; and BPTW Partnership, London - went beyond this brief.

They applied solutions that are known in certain architectural circles internationally, but architects are rarely given the opportunity to put them into practice in private developments in Ireland.

All three winners designed the schemes in a way that would encourage social interaction. They let the topography of the site dictate the positioning of the houses.

The two Dublin firms had roads coming in from three separate points with none of them joining up; avoiding the creation of "racetracks" on which cars can accelerate past people's front doors.

They worked with the climate to best orientate the houses for solar gain, and they proposed sustainable elements, such as reed beds, composting, geothermal pipes and so on, depending on costs.

Coincidentally, the two Irish winners both cited Jorn Utzon's Kingo courtyard housing scheme in Denmark, built in 1957, as an influence.

Carew Kelly took its staff to see the scheme last year and "they were blown away by it". Designed by the creator of the Sydney Opera House, this scheme was both a social as well as architectural groundbreaker.

IT WAS based on traditional Danish farmhouses, sheltering a family - literally and metaphorically - within a courtyard setting. As with the MCO scheme, the houses were built following the contours of the site and, like the Carew Kelly scheme, each house can rotate within its plot to take best advantage of solar penetration. Utzon described his house arrangements as being "like the flowers on the branch of a cherry tree, each turning towards the sun".

Sean Carew, who is from Tipperary, feels that people should re-engage with their tradition. "Farm courtyards surrounded by whitewashed houses have a simplicity and elegance. I find it curious that people from that background don't want that." Given a contemporary overhaul - with larger openings and an open-plan living area - such homes are not actually too far removed from Modernism, says Barry Kelly, and, he points out, people are comfortable with such interiors now.

"Courtyards provide shelter from the wind and wet," he says, "while groups of buildings that sit into the landscape provide further protection from the elements."

This is in contrast to the trend for positioning houses up on the highest point of the site, devoid of trees, and with their longest elevation to the road. "Buildings have the power to offend people for generations," says Carew.

It's not just the design of buildings in the countryside but demographics that concerned one of the competition judges, James Pike, of O'Mahony Pike Architects and president of the RIAI (Royal Institute of the Architects of Ireland).

His practice did a development plan for Tipperary town in the early 1980s and found that in the previous 25 years, only six or seven private houses had been built in the town compared with 240 local authority houses: all of the private housing was over a mile outside the town.

"We have got to give people an incentive - through good housing - to move back into towns," he says, adding that most people would prefer to live in a community.

In his booklet, Living Over the Shop - Relief From The Long Commute, launched yesterday, he argues that in Ireland there is "an increasing social divide between the town and the surrounding area, with higher income households tending to be located in the surrounds of the towns and lower income households in the town".

This leads to town centres that are filled with car parks and which lose their traditional residential and industrial facilities, along with retail facilities if there is not adequate car parking. This results in out-of-town shopping centres and urban sprawl.

It is up to local authorities to intervene, he says. "They should demonstrate the potential for urban redevelopment by illustrating possible redevelopment proposals, and select key areas for action to encourage private improvement or redevelopment."

The RIAI supported the Tipperary town competition which had just this aim in mind, although the fact that there were three winners muddies the water a little.

As one of the winners pointed out, it makes it difficult to see how this will be carried forward into a project.

A spokesperson for Tipperary council said that they have yet to decide whether to sell the land to a developer and, if they do, then they can show the winning entries to them.

Asked if they would require prospective developers to follow the guidelines, he seemed unsure.

Pike is committed to pushing this further and, as Carew points out, these carefully considered winning entries could be applied practically anywhere in Ireland
(c) Irish Times 2006
PVC King
 

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby MT » Fri May 26, 2006 11:40 am

His practice did a development plan for Tipperary town in the early 1980s and found that in the previous 25 years, only six or seven private houses had been built in the town compared with 240 local authority houses: all of the private housing was over a mile outside the town.

"We have got to give people an incentive - through good housing - to move back into towns," he says, adding that most people would prefer to live in a community.

In his booklet, Living Over the Shop - Relief From The Long Commute, launched yesterday, he argues that in Ireland there is "an increasing social divide between the town and the surrounding area, with higher income households tending to be located in the surrounds of the towns and lower income households in the town".


I think the bit above from the article is worth repeating – so many of Ireland’s towns are turning into minaturised versions of American doughnut cities. Those that could afford it left for their ‘rural’ idyll while the lower rungs of society were left behind. If you compare the likes of Sligo and Enniskillen you can even see a contrast in the extent of this phenomenon across the border.

The former has gone beyond urban sprawl with the surrounding countryside now filled with McMansions and villas leaving large parts of the town dead and even derelict. Development around Enniskillen has been much more tightly controlled with the slow release of land for expanding suburbs and comparatively few one-offs. This has still resulted in urban sprawl but unlike Sligo the town in much more compact and this shows in every way. There’s far more new development in the town, there’s fewer endless stretches of suburbanised road to maintain and so the public space within the town has been afforded much more attention. All in all Enniskillen is compact, well kept and thriving: Sligo seems to have been let go terribly for seemingly no other reason than enabling the socially mobile to bugger off to the nearest hilltop. :(

Ireland in general, but the west of the Republic in particular, seems to have become so anti town. As for villages, they’re a long lost cause in the likes of Donegal were so many are now largely derelict.
MT
Member
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:10 pm

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby PVC King » Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:25 pm

Agreed

No flight from land, says Coughlan

07 June 2006 14:06
The Minister for Agriculture has said that despite concerns about the numbers leaving farming, there is no evidence of the so-called flight from the land.

Mary Coughlan said many farmers see a good future in the business and there had been a very significant increase in investment in farm buildings.

The minister outlined her department's annual review earlier.

Advertisement


She said 2005 saw the introduction of the single farm payment with direct payments to farmers amounting to €2.2bn - the highest level ever.

Agricultural food exports also reaped a record level, they were worth €7.5bn. Diary exports were up 8% and beef exports were up 6%. The minister again highlighted the importance of agriculture to rural development and the national economy.

Ms Coughlan said the sale of land remains at historically low levels.


So it would appear that IRDA et al have been telling us all porkies for the last few years.

I disagree that the sale of land is historically low levels but conclude that the sale of agricultural land for agricultural use is at historically low levels as farmers are obstructed from increasing their holdings by competition from urban based bidders who can bid 10 to 50 times as much pro rata.
PVC King
 

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby PVC King » Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:30 am

RTE.com wrote:Sprawl will stretch infrastructure - report

November 24, 2006 07:17
Dublin's infrastructure will not be able to cope if its housing sprawl continues, according to a report published today by the European Environmental Agency. It predicts that residential housing will have more than doubled in the greater Dublin area by 2025.

The agency says Dublin is an illustration of a Europe-wide problem of urban sprawl. Author Ronan U'ale says Dublin's outward expansion is unsustainable in terms of resources, services and quality of life.

The report states that the market has been allowed to drive homebuyers further and further out of the city It adds that there are few constraints on the conversion of agricultural land to low density housing.


The report states that the ideal for Irish home buyers is a single family house in open countryside close to an urban area. It recommends instead a more compact capital and the development of a polycentric relationship with Dundalk, Newry and Drogheda. It predicts most future growth will be to the north-west of the capital, along the line of the Dublin- Belfast corridor.


In most countries irrational consumer behaviour is regulated against in Ireland it is pandered to and this will cost bigtime in the not so distant future if objective independent advice is not heeded.
PVC King
 

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby GrahamH » Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:23 pm

"There is nothing worse than smart ass city slickers who pride themselves in taking a swipe at people from outside the Pale... City slickers often adopt a superior attitude towards those of us from outside the metropolitan 50 kilometres per hour speed limit. It is even more nauseating when the slickers meet on-line and hide behind the skirts of discussion fora to launch verbal scuds on people outside the capital. Check out the discussion board of archiseek.com Irish website relating to the Irish Rural Dwellers’ Association. The pages are graced with the repulsive scripts that belong to a colonial past, long dead but obviously, still hankered after by a few withered brains masquerading as architectural intellects."

http://buckplanning.blogspot.com/2006/11/rural-planning-irish-rural-dwellers.html

Liamy McNally is a journalist with Mid-West Radio based in Ballyhaunis.


"Ah sure it is a great country! It could only happen here. The tail wags the dog and gets away with it!"

If only.
GrahamH
Old Master
 
Posts: 4589
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:24 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby PVC King » Mon Jan 01, 2007 1:14 pm

He is right there are a few withered brains on Archiseek; well at least today after what I hope was a really good last night.

Have a great 2007 all I hope you will all join in promoting an end to this lobby groups temporary advantage in planning policy over the next year.
PVC King
 

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby PVC King » Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:21 pm

Up to 200 homes still without power

01 January 2007 18:40
Up to 200 homes in Co Donegal are still without electricity following strong winds last night.

The ESB said it hoped to restore power to as many homes as possible by tonight.

More than 24,000 homes across the country were left without power for much of New Year's Eve.


I wonder how much the costs directly attributable to One Off Houses were this weekend?
PVC King
 

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby PVC King » Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:08 pm

Dublin sprawl could harm health, study warns
Tuesday, 13 February 2007 11:27
Planning experts have warned that Dublin's massive suburban sprawl could lead to health problems, pollution and increased rates of social isolation.

The Urban Forum, which is made up of five planning groups, is calling for a review of the National Spatial Strategy, and the creation of a new urban centre along the west coast.
Speaking on RTÉ Radio's Morning Ireland, Aidan ffrench of the Irish Landscape Institute, which is on the forum, says Dublin is growing too rapidly.

The forum is also demanding increased staffing of planning bodies and a greater emphasis on high-speed rail.

It has warned that Dublin is expanding so quickly it will soon occupy the same surface area as Los Angeles, but with less than a quarter of its population.

As a consequence, the average car in Ireland travels 70% more each year than France, 50% more than Britain - and even 30% more than the USA.

The forum says there is substantial evidence to suggest this will lead obesity, cardiovascular disease, asthma and increased rates of social isolation.

The forum is made up of: Engineers Ireland; the Irish Landscape Institute; the Irish Planning Institute; the Royal Institute of the Architects of Ireland and the Society of Chartered Surveyors.


Interesting coalition lending weight to something that has been held here for a long time.
PVC King
 

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby PVC King » Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:19 pm

Ahern announces appointed Senators
Friday, 3 August 2007 13:16
The Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern, has announced his list of 11 appointed Senators.

As expected four of the new Seanad seats have gone to members of the Green Party and the Progressive Democrats.


* Dan Boyle, former Green Party TD, Cork South Central

* Martin Brady, former Fianna Fáil TD, Dublin North East

* Ivor Callely, former Fianna Fáil TD and Minister of State, Dublin North Central

* Ciaran Cannon, PD Councillor, Galway

* Maria Corrigan, Fianna Fáil Councillor, Dún Laoghaire Rathdown

* Deirdre de Burca, Green Party Councillor, Wicklow

* John Ellis, former Fianna Fáil TD, Roscommon-South Leitrim

* Eoghan Harris, Sunday Independent columnist and former RTÉ producer

* Lisa McDonald, Fianna Fáil Councillor, Wexford

* Brian Ó Domhnaill, Fianna Fáil Councillor, Donegal

* Fiona O'Malley, former PD TD, Dún Laoghaire

* Senator Donie Cassidy - Leader of Seanad Éireann.


Good choice for a non political appointment and his views on bungalows are cool too!
PVC King
 

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby henno » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:08 pm

Harris will hardly be able to take his tongue out of an Taoiseachs hole for long enough to make a difference.....
henno
Senior Member
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 12:07 pm

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby PVC King » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:13 pm

You must be talking about another Eoghan Harris the one appointed today is independent outspoken and has a unique ability not to stick to the script as the stickies found out many moons ago.
PVC King
 

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby henno » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:18 pm

nope, im talking about that 'FF-washed-Bertie-Yes-man' who has reaped what he has sown....
henno
Senior Member
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 12:07 pm

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby alonso » Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:20 pm

But it's the same Harris who went on the Late Late and praised Bertie to the high heavens one week before the election. His appointment is nothing more than a payout for that episode where he may as well have been wearing a Vote Bertie t-shirt and shaking Fianna Fail pompoms. It really brings the role of the media into disrepute. It damages Irish democracy and shows that an unstable, flip flopping ignorant arrogant blustering chameleion hack of the worst kind can rise to become a legislator.

And 10 minutes surround by FF gombeenmen like Ivor Callely in the Seanad and his views on one-off housing are liable to shift in any case.
alonso
Senior Member
 
Posts: 975
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:33 pm

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby PVC King » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:05 pm

Harris is passionate on any topic he dives into; I read his editorial piece in the Sindo before the election and he called it simply the purpose of an election is to concentrate on the issues that matter such as health, education, planning etc and not on a he said she said relating to events that happened many years ago.

Whilst in the Seannad he will have a chance to prove if he is genuinely independent such as Wilson or Fergal Quinn or if he becomes an ind ff.

Time will judge more clearly than the polemical sentiments above
PVC King
 

Re: Eoghan Harris on one-off housing

Postby alonso » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:34 pm

yes but on the Late Late he ignored all the issues and led a cheerleading campaign for Bertie, against the media. He may be passionate but he's a political chameleon who's a danger to democracy, as the line between Fianna Fail and the Sindo has been thoroughly blurred by his rants. If he truly cared about the issues you mentioned he wouldn't touch Bertie with a bargepole. His support for Bertie was nothing more than a dig at his fellow journalists who would honestly like to know why it was ok to use your elected position to enrich yourself.

He obviously doesn't care that much about planning issues either, if he's willing to support FF. And i disagree that the Seanad will prove or disprove his independence. He proved himself an apologist for backward governance, gombeenism and corruption on RTE that night. He's as independent as Flynn and Healy Rae.

I fail to see how Harris' appointment will benefit the one-off housing debate as you seem to be suggesting. He's probably fogotten all about that issue by now, as it seems to have slipped off the "flavour of the month" chart. Perhaps if he'd championed the Greens in May i'd feel different.
alonso
Senior Member
 
Posts: 975
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:33 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Ireland