New Advertising in Dublin

New Advertising in Dublin

Postby StephenC » Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:56 pm

Busy bees in DCC this month what with new senior staff, SoHo and now this....

Dublin City Council proposes to halve the number of large advertising hoardings in the city under new plans to regulate outdoor advertising.

The council is in the process of negotiating the contract for control of all future public space advertising with one of the world's largest outdoor advertising companies, JC Decaux.

In return the company will provide a number of facilities, which the council calls "public realm enhancements", including the long-awaited citywide public bike rental scheme, in a contract that could be worth €90 million to the council.


Under the contract, JC Decaux will have a licence to advertise in various locations around the city, principally using a free-standing "six-sheet" format, similar in size to bus shelter advertising.

Large 48-sheet billboards will not be used in future advertising under the contract, and the council is negotiating to reduce the number of JC Decaux's current 18sq m hoardings by 50 per cent before the new advertising is erected.

The council hopes to eventually eliminate the 48-sheet format. While other advertising companies have large billboards on private properties which do not come under the council's jurisdiction, the council hopes that the newer advertising formats will make billboard advertising obsolete and that An Bord Pleanála will look less favourably on granting planning permission for these hoardings.

"The redevelopment of different parts of the city means that, over a period of time, the 48-sheets will disappear. They're not a suitable type of advertising for the city and they're not even very effective," council executive manager Ciaran McNamara said.

One of the principal benefits to the city of the new contract will be the provision of a bicycle rental scheme

While the terms of the contract are still under discussion, and it is unclear whether the rental deposit will be refundable, JC Decaux is to provide an initial minimum of 500 bikes and 25 city-wide bike stations under the scheme.

The company will supply install and operate the scheme on behalf of the council. Users will be able to collect a bicycle from one of the stations, cycle it around the city for a limited period before depositing it at any of the number of designated sites. The bicycles will have solid puncture-proof tyres and be "virtually vandal-proof", the contractor said.

Automatic public toilets, for both able-bodied and disabled users, heritage trail plaques, public signposts and free-standing maps will also be provided by the contractor.

The council hopes the new advertising scheme, including all public facilities, will be in place within the next 12-18 months.



From todays Irish Times. More clutter for our streets or a marked improvement to the public domain. I wonder will all these new signposts replace the myriad of signage in the city at the moment.
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby ctesiphon » Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:20 pm

Agreed. The idea of the bikes appeals to me in principle (though no vandal-proofing can prevent them being thrown into the canals or even having their wheels kicked in), but alarm bells started ringing when I heard about the public realm improvements. Seems like removing one form of clutter only to replace it with another form.
Does anyone know if there will be an advertising aspect to the new maps, signposts etc.? Presumably JC Decaux will need to make something from this arrangement.
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby StephenC » Sun Apr 16, 2006 4:37 pm

If its the standard JC Decaux stuff then I imagine you will have a map on one face and adverts on another. Perhaps the CC are going to install those large advertising "pillars" that are so common on the continent. And heritage plaques....like the Baileys Malton series. Why cant signage etc just be provided in a clear, conhesive and logical manner without the need to turn it into signage. Also despite this announcement I have seen no end to the "programme" of installing empty and unused galvenised steel poles in the city. Pearse St is the latest victim...
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby phil » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:54 pm

StephenC wrote:If its the standard JC Decaux stuff then I imagine you will have a map on one face and adverts on another.


It seemed like that would be the format didn't it?

There is quite alot of images and photographs etc etc on their web-pages:

My favourite was the 'Tram Domination Pack'. It's just such a subtle name :D

http://www.jcdecaux.ie/luastramdominationpacks.htm

http://www.jcdecaux.co.uk/city/
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby ctesiphon » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:40 pm

Slightly off-topic, but if the 'Tram Domination Pack' :D is designed to be a "Unique medium creating an impact on both passengers and pedestrians alike", shouldn't it require planning permission as it features in the public domain? As a cyclist/pedestrian, I see enough advertising as it is, :mad: and I believe plans to 'adorn' the exterior of Luas carriages with ads were recently dropped.
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You thought Dublin's streets were cluttered already?

Postby jimg » Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:21 am

...well wait 'til you see the proposal being "negotiated" between the council and JCDecaux. 70 ten foot wide commercial advertising signs mounted on 6 foot poles are to be erected at "strategic" points on streets around the city. In addition there will be a large number of smaller advertising signs.

There are a number of disturbing aspects about this project. The most important is obviously the horrible aesthetic consequences. The second is the sneaky way that the proposal is being put through planning; 70 individual applications - thus potentially costing 1400 euro for an individual to object - lodged the week before Christmas, hoping that people wont have enough time to object. Even if only half of the signs fail in planning they will still have a terrible visual impact on the city - especially on streets which are already suffering with too much traffic. Another disturbing aspect is that the council are complicit in this vandalism; in exchange for allowing these signs the company will install some sort of bicycle rental stations. To me this represents the worst kind of shallow environmental tokenism; I wonder how many Dubliners are dying to cycle around the place but simply can't afford the likes of the 100 euro Lidl bike I use? However the idea of this failed european experiment in bicycles for the masses is probably marxist enough to have the support of the environmental lobby. If the experiment fails (which it will) we'll be stuck with these huge ads cluttering up the streets.

Sometimes I wonder whether the council have improved since the 60s.
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Re: You thought Dublin's streets were cluttered already?

Postby Keen » Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:26 am

"However the idea of this failed european experiment in bicycles for the masses is probably marxist enough to have the support of the environmental lobby"

Have you been to Holland or Germany much and if you did, tell me what you saw to think this?
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Re: You thought Dublin's streets were cluttered already?

Postby jimg » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:13 am

Yes, I've been to Holland and Germany many, many times. Thankfully in this day and age, with universal access to information, I do not have to personally conduct an investigation into each such scheme nor record my experiences of such schemes in order to have an opinion. If you are really interested, try google or wikipedia for a summary of the failures (and successes) of such schemes. In summary, the cost of maintanance per bike in large cities has been proven to be unsustainable. Thus DCC's plan to pawn our streetscape vistas for advertising in order to support this scheme.

The only thing going for such schemes is a weird sort of commie/hippy appeal as there are simply no other tangible benefits. You can buy a new bike and lock for less that the cost of maintaining one of these rental bikes for a single year. I know of nobody who would like to cycle around the city but cannot afford a bike so these schemes are a solution to a non-existing problem. On the off chance that someone tries cycling because of the availability of these bikes, the unpleasant experience of cycling in the city is likely to turn them off forever. If DCC were serious about encouraging cycling in the city then they could start to do something to improve the cycling environment. Unfortunately this would be a mildly challenging task. It's much easier to engage in shallow tokenism: prostitute the aesthetics of the city, have a few special bike racks installed around the place with 50 yellow bikes and then line up for the photo ops, the special features with a credulous media (I can imagine the introduction to the feature on the RTE news) and pat each other in the back while the bikes get thrown in the Liffey and cycling in Dublin remains a mode for the brave and the bold.
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Re: You thought Dublin's streets were cluttered already?

Postby PVC King » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:22 am

I agree that most of the bikes will end up in the City's rivers and canals where they will join the shopping trolleys and traffic cones as there are large numbers of people in both Ireland and the UK who exhibit very public displays of anti-social tendencies such as this.

I think that this decision needs to be revisited as once these kiosks go in they will never come out as their income stream gets paired off against a popular public programme such as a parks or libraries sub-programme. There is further little evidence that commuters on the brink of investing in a bike will be swayed by this measure to take to two wheels.

There are two methods that would encourage much greater cycling numbers, firstly to restrict cars in much of the city centre and secondly to give tax relief for the purchase of bicyles and accessoories in much the same way as is given to the sale of annual rail cards. Financial enducement and a safe commuting environment work everywhere which does not take astro-physical calculations to deduce.

In relation to advertising; I like the French round kiosk idea as the width never exceeds 1m which combined with their semi-tacky replica cast iron fittings gives them an air of innocuos respectability.
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Re: You thought Dublin's streets were cluttered already?

Postby hutton » Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:27 pm

Journeyman Pictures have an online video report on the Lyon experience:


Cycling City

'In Lyon, an intriguing collaboration between private enterprise and the city council has slashed car usage and improved residents’ health. Now, there are plans to introduce the scheme in other cities.

Using a prepaid card, residents can rent city bikes for free for the first half hour. The scheme is funded by advertising company, JC Decaux, in exchange for exclusive access to the city’s public billboards. “We had to offer 2,000 bicycles, 200 bike stations, a server and all the maintenance”, explains a JC Decaux spokesman. “But if our calculations are correct, advertising revenues will be about the same as expenses for the bike scheme.” As scheme designer, Jacques Le Gars, predicts: “In five years time, it’ll be common to see this kind of program in most major cities throughout the world.”'

11 Min documentary video on Lyons experience here -

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7509568322806821099

(It plays in window when opened, and does not need to be downloaded)
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Re: You thought Dublin's streets were cluttered already?

Postby SeamusOG » Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:22 pm

I have found the "Litfass columns" that you see all over Germany to be unobtrusive. In some cases they are used as air vents for underground rail lines. In other cases there are plants (intentionally) growing on top of them so that, if looked at from an upstairs floor of a building, they add to the general greenery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Litfa%C3%9F
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Re: You thought Dublin's streets were cluttered already?

Postby Alek Smart » Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:21 pm

There is indeed something essentially "civilized" about the JC Decaux Lyon project and indeed the Litfuss columns throughout Grosser Europa.

Both of the items are most assuredly used in the "Common Good" throughout the Cities where they are used.
However,our deep rooted cultural animosity to anything which smacks of Commonality will as ever serve to stunt these plans.
This is why our "Public Open Spaces" fill up with burnt out stolen cars.
Our Bus Shelters are reduced to useless metal framed skeletons (Checkout the sad Supershelter on the N11 Stillorgan Road St Lauence`s Park)
Our Public Phone Kiosks/Pillars stand wireless and useless.
I would suggest that JCD take another look at Dublin before providing more metallic infill for the Canals. :mad:
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Re: You thought Dublin's streets were cluttered already?

Postby newgrange » Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:45 am

I just lodged a 'comment' on the application for some sort of double-sided visual 'Metropole' advertising structure nonsense in the middle of the path at Newcomen Bridge on the North Strand.

How likely is it that an individual will have any effect?

**edit** just got my official notification that they received my comment.
The stated size of this thing (which they propose putting in the middle of a footpath that already is an 'unofficial' cyclepath) is 4.85 metres high and 3.48metres wide - are they having a laugh - really??? In the middle of a footpath??
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Re: You thought Dublin's streets were cluttered already?

Postby newgrange » Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:57 pm

Here are the planned locations for these monstrosities.

Note how they are in areas of high rented and public housing - someone knew well how to play the planning numbers game, in terms of which communities would generate most objections - not ONE on the long leafy Howth Road? I wonder why not.:rolleyes:

6764/06 Site bounded by River Road &Tolka Valley, To North, Ashtown Road To West, Pelletstown Village Centre To South & Undeveloped Lands To East, Within Scheme Known As Pelletstown, Ashtown, Dublin 15

6765/06 On grass verge to front of 'Trans Tyres', On Southern Side Of Crumlin Road, Adjacent Junction Of Crumlin Road, Kildare Road & St. Mary's Road, Dublin 12

6766/06 Footpath on eastern side of Drumcondra Road Upper, At Junction With Clonturk Park, To Front Of 24 Drumcondra Road Upper, Dublin 9

6767/06 Footpath on southern side of Summerville, Adjacent To 67-84 Mountain View Court (under reconstruction), Summerville, Dublin 1 (presumably this should say Summerhill, but why bother even getting the name of the place right...it's just a site for adverts).

6768/06 Footpath on southern side of North Strand Road, To West Of Newcomen Bridge, Adjacent To Junction Of North Strand Road, & Guildford Place, Dublin 3

6769/06 Footpath on southern side of N32, Adjacent To Darndale Park, Outside Woodview House, Belcamp, Dublin 17

6770/06 The public footpath on the eastern side of Swords Road, Dublin 9 to the front of Plunkett College school grounds opposite the junction with Seven Oaks in close proximity to the Regency Hotel.

6771/06 The public footpath on the eastern side of Swords Road, Dublin 9 south of the access to Plunkett College and opposite Highfield Hospital. The precise location of the site is marked by an X in a circle directly onto the pavement in red paint

6772/06 Site located on the public footpath at the junction of Sheriff Street Upper and New Wapping Street, immediately to the front of 165-182 Sheriff Street Upper, Dublin 1

6773/06 The grass verge adjacent to the public footpath on the northern side of the Long Mile Road, Dublin 12. The site is located on the western side of the entrance to Finches Industrial Park and to the front of a Nissan Ireland car garage.

6774/06 A site located on the public footpath on the northern side of East Wall Road adjacent to the former "Tucks Fasten Site" and opposite Cahills Printers, East Wall Road, Dublin 3

6775/06 The grass verge on the western side of Malahide Road, Dublin 5 to the north of St Brendan's Church. The site is located to the rear of no. 23 Beechpark Court to the west and opposite no's 55 - 56, Saint Brendan's Avenue to the east.

6776/06 The grass verge on the western side of the Malahide Road, Dublin 17 approaching the Blunden Drive / Priorswood Road Roundabout. The site is located to the front of McDonalds and North of the entrance to Coolock Retail park.

6777/06 A site located on the public footpath to the Northern side of the junction of Ryders Row and Parnell Street, Dublin 1

6778/06 site located on public footpath, Adjacent To 1 - 50 Sheridan Court, On The Southern Side Of Dorset Street Upper, At The Junction With Bethesda Place, Dublin 1

6779/06 Site located on the footpath on, Eastern Side Of East Wall Road, Adjacent To The P & O Terminal, And West Of The Point Depot, On East Wall Road, Dublin 1

6780/06 site located on the public footpath, At The Junction Of Seville Place, Guild Street And Sheriff Street Upper, Dublin 1

6781/06 a site located on the public footpath, Where Church Street Upper Meets Coleraine Street, Dublin 7

6782/06 Public footpath outside In-House at the Panelling Centre on the southern side of the Long Mile Road, Dublin 12, west of the access to Walkinstown Parade and east of the junction with Walkinstown Avenue

6783/06 The grass verge adjacent to the public footpath outside Power City on the southern side of the Malahide Road, Dublin 17

6784/06 A site located on the public footpath on the western side of Ballybough Road, just north of the railway bridge, Ballybough Road, Dublin 3. The precise location of the site is marked by an X in a circle directly onto the pavement in red paint

6785/06 Site located on the public footpath adjacent to 1-30 Kevin Barry Flats to the east of the junction of King Street North and Church Street, Dublin 7. The precise location of the site is marked by an X in a circle directly onto the pavement in red paint.

6786/06 The public footpath on the eastern side of the Finglas Road, Dublin 11, opposite the junction with Ballybogan Road. The site is located to the north of a small utility structure and to the south of the former site of the Royal Oak Pub.

6787/06 the public footpath on the eastern side of the Ballymun Road, Dublin 9, approaching the junction with Glasnevin Ave and Collins Ave Extension, in front of the Stormanstown House.

6788/06 on the public footpath immediately to the south of the entrance to the office of Transroute Tunnel Operations on East Wall Road, Dublin 3 opposite St Joseph's Primary School, to the west.

6789/06 on the public footpath on the eastern side of Langrishe Place and Summerhill, Dublin 1. Opposite the IDA Business Centre to the south west and adjacent to 1 Langrishe Place to the north.

6790/06 The public footpath outside Karls Furniture, at the junction of Kylemore Park South and Kylemore Road, Ballyfermot, Dublin 10.

6791/06 Footpath on eastern side of junction of, Bolton Street And Capel Street, Dublin 1

6792/06 Footpath on northern side of, Navan Road, Adjacent To Entrance To, Cabra Garda Station, Dublin 7

6793/06 Footpath on western side of North Road, Opposite 'Noyeks Newmans' & Adjacent To Area Of Open Space, Dublin 11

6794/06 An area of open space between, 24 & 34 Naas Road, Adjacent To Boundary Wall With Footpath, Dublin 12

6795/06 Grass verge adjacent public footpath, On Southern Side Of Navan Road, Opposite 249 Navan Road To North & Adjacent, Belvedere College Sports Ground To South, Dublin 7

6796/06 Footpath outside 'Costello Doors' on Kylemore Road, Opposite Entrance To Westlink Industrial Estate, Dublin 10

6797/06 The public footpath on the southern side of the N32, Dublin 17 approaching the junction with Clonshaugh Road. The site is located opposite 'Craobh Chiarain Sports ground' to the North and adjacent to 'Belcamp Park' to the South.

6798/06 On the grass area adjacent to the public footpath at the northern side of the junction of Finglas Road and Old Finglas Road, Dublin 11

6799/06 The public footpath on the southerm side of Pearse Street, Dublin 2 adjacent to Trinity College Enterprise Centre beside the junction with Macken Street.

6800/06 The public footpath to the west of the access to the City Junction Businesss Park, on the northern side of the N32, Outside Bewleys, Clare Hall, Dublin 17

6801/06 The public footpath adjacent to the front of Whitehall Church Car park, on the eastern side of the Swords Road, Dublin 9.

6802/06 The public footpath adjacent to the IDA Business Centre to the east on Gardiner Street Lower, Dublin 1

6803/06 on a lay-by adjacent to grass verge on the eastern side of the Malahide Road, adjacent to 43-44, Saint Brendan's Avenue, Dublin 5

6804/06 public footpath on the eastern side of the Malahide Road, Dublin 17 adjacent to the N32 Grange Road Roundabout, in front of Total Fitness Health Centre

6805/06 grass verge on the norther side of the Malahide Road, Dublin 17 adjacent to AKZO Nobel and opposite Burger King

6806/06 grass verge on the southern side of the Naas Road, Dublin 12, located to the front of Nissan Ireland and opposite Royal Liver Retail Park.

6807/06 Public footpath on the southern side of the Naas Road, Dublin 12, located in front of Citroen Cars (Gowan House) and opposite the Eircom Business Systems Building (LAN Communications).

6808/06 car parking bay adjacent to the public footpath on the eastern side of Macken Street, Dublin 2, adjacent to Trinity College Enterprise Centre to the east and opposite Conway Court (no's. 1-30) to the west.

6809/06 grass verge adjacent to the public footpath on the eastern side of North Road (N2) Finglas, Dublin 11, approaching the roundabout at the junction with St. Margaret's Road, adjacent to Lidl.

6810/06 Footpath on Finglas Road (N2), At Junction To Main Street, Finglas, Dublin 11

6811/06 The grass verge to the front to the, Front Of The Public Library On The Western Side Of, Ballymun Road, North Of Junction With Collins Ave, Dublin 11

6812/06 on the public footpath, On The Western Side Of Ballymun Road, After The Junction Of Ballymun Road And Balbutcher Lane, Dublin 11

6813/06 Public footpath on the southern side of, Richmond Road, Adjacent To The Stand Of Tolka Park Football Ground, Opposite Drumcondra Football Club, Dublin 3

6814/06 On grass verge on western side of East Link Toll Road, Approaching The East Link Toll Road/Sean Moore Road Roundabout at, Irishtown, Dublin 4

6815/06 on the public footpath, On The Eastern Of St Lukes Avenue, At The Junction Of St Lukes Avenue And The Coombe, Dublin 8

6816/06 On the grass verge on the eastern side of the East Link Toll Road approaching the East Link Toll Road / Sean Moore Road roundabout at Irishtown, Dublin 4

6817/06 On the central grass verge at the junction of Sean Moore Road and South Link Road, Irishtown, Dublin 4

6818/06 The public footpath on the southern side of the N32, on the west side of the entrance to St. Michaels House, Belcamp, Dublin 17

6819/06 The public footpath, on the southern side of Marrowbone Lane, close to the junction of Marrowbone Lane and Summer Street South, Dublin 8

6820/06 On a car parking bay beside the public footpath, adjacent to the Failte Ireland building, on the eastern side of Amiens Street, Dublin 1

6821/06 on the public footpath on the, Southern Side Cork Street Outside Donnelly Centre, And Opposite 113 Cork Street, Dublin 8

6822/06 The grass area on the fraffic median, At The Entrance To Goldenbridge Industrial Estate, Tyrconnell Road, Opposite Church Of Mary Immaculate, Dublin 8

6823/06 Public Footpath on Sean Moore Road, At The Junction With Bremen Road,

6824/06 Public footpath on the southern side of, Finglas Road To The West Of The Junction With, Tower View Cottages, Opposite Prospect (Glasnevin), Dublin 9

6825/06 On the public footpath on the northern side of Dean Street, near the Junction with Patrick Street, outside 'Ovenden House', Dublin 8

6826/06 The public footpath on the northern side of the Naas Road, Dublin 12, adjacent to the junction with La Touche Road. The site is located adjacent to no. 118 Naas Road and opposite the Bluebell LUAS stop.

6827/06 The public footpath to the front of the office of 'John Feaheny & Company', at Zhivago's Corner, the junction of Ryder's Row and Loftus Lane, Dublin 1

6828/06 grass verge adjacent to the public footpath on the eastern side of Ballymun Road adjacent to the pedestrian entrance to Albert College Grove, Dublin 9 and opposite the junction with St. Pappin's Road

6829/06 Adjacent to the public footpath on the southern side of Clontarf Road, Dublin 3 west of the junction with Alfie Byrne Road and to the east of the access to the public car park

6830/06 public footpath on the southern side of Crumlin Road, Dublin 12 opposite Crumlin Shopping Centre to the front of a green area beside the Eastern Health Board Building.

6831/06 Southern side of Fairview Strand on the grass verge on the western side of the entrance to Fairview Park, Dublin 3

6832/06 Public footpath outside, 80, North Strand Road, Dublin 3
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Re: You thought Dublin's streets were cluttered already?

Postby MrX » Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:37 pm

The problem, as I see it, is that Dublin remains a very dangerous place to cycle in.

OK, we do have a few extra cycle lanes here and there but they don't really make it into the city centre where cyclists regularly have to mix with articulated trucks and double decker busses.

Cars regularly swirve into cycle lanes too which is totally unacceptable driver behaviour.

E.g. I was nearly killed near UCD on a cycle lane. A car was turning right and the car behind him decided to blindly swirve around him crossing onto the cycle lane.

I can't understand why cycle lanes must be on roadways, why can't they take over part of the wide pavements? They should be properly segregated from traffic, like pavements are.

I'm not sure that encouraging inexperienced people to cycle in that environment is particularly helpful to be honest.
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Re: You thought Dublin's streets were cluttered already?

Postby sw101 » Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:59 am

i'd love to see each of the applications for the signage hit with a request for add info including 3d images of each of the proposals.
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Re: You thought Dublin's streets were cluttered already?

Postby StephenC » Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:00 pm

Im quite supportive of these. They are in most other cities I have been in and seem to work fine. They should also lead to two positive developments - a reduction in billboards and an improvement in the provision of maps and tourist information (at least that is how I understood it - although we can't always believe what we hear!) I would also like to see the introduction of the large advertising columns one sees on the continent. I think they can be very usuful for event promotion....something that it not very accessible at the moment.

I take your comments about the cycle lanes though..... even if DCC doesnt!
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Re: You thought Dublin's streets were cluttered already?

Postby jimg » Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:45 pm

Im quite supportive of these. They are in most other cities I have been in and seem to work fine. They should also lead to two positive developments - a reduction in billboards and an improvement in the provision of maps and tourist information (at least that is how I understood it - although we can't always believe what we hear!)

What exactly would be the point of putting maps and tourist information on the back of 10 foot wide advertising boards which are monted 6 or 8 feet above the ground? You'd have to hand out free periscopes in the airport to arriving tourists. The size, design and locations of these advertising boards make it very clear that they are designed to target people in motorised vehicles and not strolling tourists. In this respect, I wouldn't have a huge problem if they were confined to the dual carraigeways - like the N2 or the Malahide Rd, for example - which are already effectively dedicated to motorised traffic anyway and where they wouldn't take up valuable street or footpath space and wouldn't compete visually with the built heritage of Dublin. However have a look at the list of locations; they include very central areas close to historic buildings and in places where pedestrians and cyclists are currently in (losing) competition with motorised traffic. These advertising boards reinforce the idea that the primary purpose of places like Dorset St or Parnell St, for example, are to facilitate motorised traffic.

Also, there is something cynical about the locations chosen for these ads; they're all are in less "posh" areas where I assume JCDeuax imagine that the locals are unlikely to object. There are none planned for places like Donnybrook or Ballsbridge, for example, but plenty for all the northside traffic routes into the city.

I don't buy the argument that it will reduce billboard advertising. The amount of billboard advertising has, through deliberate council policy, been slowly reduced almost to insignificance over the last 10 or 15 years with notable successes like clearing the loopline bridge. At a stroke, this will effectively reverse this slow and carefully executed policy. The fact that the boards are mounted on two stainless steel poles instead of on the sides of buildings doesn't strike me as being hugely significant.
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Re: You thought Dublin's streets were cluttered already?

Postby newgrange » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:47 pm

[quote="jimg"]
Also, there is something cynical about the locations chosen for these ads]

The Howth Road is miraculously bypassed, as is Clontarf, except for the East Wall end.
Now there's a surprise.

If it was civic education was the point of these, one would think Stephen's Green might be an ideal location - no? I wonder why not - they are such things of beauty after all.

No doubt the majority of them will be passed without objection, purely on grounds of numbers, but I for one will not shed any tears when the graffiti louts target them, as of course they will.
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Re: You thought Dublin's streets were cluttered already?

Postby GrahamH » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:06 pm

jimg wrote:The fact that the boards are mounted on two stainless steel poles instead of on the sides of buildings doesn't strike me as being hugely significant.


Well this is it isn't it - all they are is a smaller version of the same. Indeed there's many existing examples of similar size already attached to buildings about the city, just not mounted on brushed steel poles or whatever.

In fairness, many of the locations are semi-industrial or flank major road arteries (as distinct from streets), where well-designed and less intrusively scaled boards will be an improvement over existing stock, and I would also welcome the move away from building-mounted hoarding which permits advertising to permeate the streetscape in an ugly and sneaky manner. Saying that, I'd hope that these proposed developments are replacement structures for the most part and not additional blights on the city.

As mentioned, it's very sad to note that so much of the north inner city is deemed 'suitable' for this type of development, and relative to the southside is probably the case - an indication as to just how much it's been allowed degenerate over the years. The only southside street of note to be affected is Pearse Street, which lets face it has its heart on the northside anyway, and the traffic volumes headed in that direction to boot.
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Re: You thought Dublin's streets were cluttered already?

Postby jimg » Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:33 am

As an exercise I've analysed the distribution of the location of these things using newgrange's list. Here are the numbers per postcode:
  • 11 - Dublin 1
  • 8 - Dublin 3
  • 8 - Dublin 17
  • 8 - Dublin 12
  • 7 - Dublin 9
  • 7 - Dublin 11
  • 5 - Dublin 8
  • 4 - Dublin 7
  • 4 - Dublin 4
  • 2 - Dublin 5
  • 2 - Dublin 2
  • 2 - Dublin 10
  • 1 - Dublin 15

70% of them are in the northside, which is striking. It is disappointing as areas like Dorset St, Bolton St. and Parnell St. are very central. All 19 of the Dublin 1 and 3 ones are in built-up city areas but near "high rented and public housing" as newgrange observed. The Dublin 5 and 7 ones are a mixed bag - about half are objectionable in my opinion. At least in the outer postcodes, like Dublin 17, the locations are "semi-industrial or flank major road arteries (as distinct from streets)" as Graham describes it.

On the southside, Dublin 12 predominates but the locations are semi-industrial and so are not objectionable. 3 of the ones in Dublin 8 would also (arguably fall into this category). Of course the Dublin 4 ones are not anywhere near Donnybrook but around Irishtown but they're mostly near the east link bridge so again might be excused. The two in Dublin 2 are on Pearse St (near Maken Street) which certainly wont improve this section of street. The two in Dublin 10 are on the Kylemore Rd - without knowing the exact locations, I'd say fair enough.

Just over 80% of them are positioned on "public footpaths" and so will impede and take away space from pedestrians. A retrograde step surely which contradicts the councils own planning goals I imagine?

Many of the sites are "clustered" - i.e. two or three very near each other or just across the street or on different corners. I can only assume that this is tactical - even if half of the sites are successfully objected to, they will still get the "coverage" they are seeking. It's like applying to build a 10 story building knowing that they'll lop off 2 when you wanted to build an 8 story to begin with.
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Re: You thought Dublin's streets were cluttered already?

Postby AndrewP » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:39 pm

Don't mean to sound NIMBY-ish, but this is totally unfair. No fewer than five of these yokes will be a stone's throw from me in D9. More than twice what some entire postcodes are getting. Travelling in on the Swords road, you'll get three in rapid succession on the same side of the road as you come through Whitehall.
This will visually reinforce the slicing-through effect the road has on what is a long-established residential area. And another two back on the Ballymun Road.
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Go back to the drawing board DCC

Postby hutton » Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:29 pm

jimg wrote:What exactly would be the point of putting maps and tourist information on the back of 10 foot wide advertising boards which are monted 6 or 8 feet above the ground? You'd have to hand out free periscopes in the airport to arriving tourists. The size, design and locations of these advertising boards make it very clear that they are designed to target people in motorised vehicles and not strolling tourists. In this respect, I wouldn't have a huge problem if they were confined to the dual carraigeways - like the N2 or the Malahide Rd, for example - which are already effectively dedicated to motorised traffic anyway and where they wouldn't take up valuable street or footpath space and wouldn't compete visually with the built heritage of Dublin. However have a look at the list of locations]There are none planned for places like Donnybrook or Ballsbridge, for example, but plenty for all the northside traffic routes into the city.[/I]

I don't buy the argument that it will reduce billboard advertising. The amount of billboard advertising has, through deliberate council policy, been slowly reduced almost to insignificance over the last 10 or 15 years with notable successes like clearing the loopline bridge. At a stroke, this will effectively reverse this slow and carefully executed policy. The fact that the boards are mounted on two stainless steel poles instead of on the sides of buildings doesn't strike me as being hugely significant.




Initially I was very sympathetic to this scheme, however I am gravely disappointed by:

1) The disproportionate amount of these being located in the lower income areas; why arent there more in leafy red brick areas if theyre such a good idea - Ailsbury Road strikes me as an excellent place for example, being an access point to RTE, having plenty of public domain space, and also being a perfect cycle distance from the city-centre. Equally none in Ranelagh or Rathmines - very odd again, given the amount of students/ potential users.... As stands this scheme would actually further exaserbate social exclusion - poor areas get one form of provision, while well-off areas are obviously well-enough off that they dont need to cycle; a poor mans transport :eek: :( :mad:

2) As noted earlier, this project is being applied for by means of multiple symultaneos applications - this imo amounts to project splitting, which for a local authority to be party to is a complete disgrace. There is no point objecting to a singular stand, given the critical mass of the scheme and given that they are located in clusters; by my calculation it would take €1380 to object to the project on the basis of 69 x €20.

Finally as already noted, there is nothing to suggest that it will lead to a reduction of advertising - on the contrary this disgraceful scheme can only now be interpreted as a trojan horse for further advertising.

As a result I am now going to actively lobby councillors to over-turn this by whatever means necessary, be that section 140s or whatever... If anybody else pursues this by appeal to BP, I would also be perfectly happy to provide a supporting letter if that can be of help.

This is a scandal; feck off DCC with your tacky shite until youre prepared to also put it in the ABC1 areas :mad:
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Re: You thought Dublin's streets were cluttered already?

Postby hutton » Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:56 pm

I wonder what way the siting of these are being handled in Paris...


Paris to get 14,000 free bikes

Outdoor advertising firm JCDecaux has won the contract to supply Paris with bikes for a new and free city-wide bicycle hire service. The company already operates Cyclocity pay-per-ride cycle hire schemes in Lyon and Brussels

The contract with Paris City Hall will see JCDecaux's Somupi unit establish a free bicycle hire service with 14,100 bikes in place by the summer.

JCDecaux bit a rival bid from Clear Channel Outdoor Holdings Inc. Clear Channel had formed a consortium with Electricite de France, France Telecom and Vinci Park.

JCDecaux operate Lyon's successful Cyclocity rental scheme, a cycle hire service originally called Vélo’V and started in May 2005.

The Cyclocity bikes were ridden almost 12 million kms in 2006 - that's 5,000 kms per bicycle. There were 5.5 million rentals during the year, an average of 15,000 rentals per day with peaks that exceeded 30,000 during exceptional events such as Lyon's Festival of Music. ??Cyclocity schemes are also operated in Marseille, Aix en-Provence and Brussels.

Published Tuesday 30 January 2007
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Re: You thought Dublin's streets were cluttered already?

Postby hutton » Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:24 am

Hutton has been a busy bonehead probing this, and has made some very interesting findings:

1) The nasty advert plan is a stand-alone scheme. It has nothing to do with locations or anything else of the bike stands - it just happens that JC DeCeaux is the same "partner".

2) Funding for the bike project was set aside specifically just over a year ago, and ergo is not reliant on the thrashy advert scheme.

3) The bike scheme will be provided at 25 stands - and is not related in siting to the 70 tacky adverts. This of course raises the bizarre prospect that the adverts would be dumped on the Inner city - while the potentially beneficial bike facilities may be located in, say, Donnybrook. How nice :eek:

4) City Councillors were not aware of -

A - The disproportionate manner by which these are proposed for lower income areas, as opposed to Ranelagh Rathmines, Rathgar, or Donnybrook - I wonder why this shite wasnt proposed for such areas :rolleyes:

B - The manner by which these have been applied for - 70 separate applications - constitutes project splitting, and thus it is likely that DCC would be subject of a European complaint on the basis of lack of EIS, etc.



This Monday the councillors will be having their monthly meeting. I have spoken to a few representatives and so I am hoping that I have been of help to them and that they will now have a more informed perspective. If these yokes do get as far as getting permission, there is always the instrument at the disposal of councillors to pass a section 140, and thus kill this dead. In the meantime, I have asked them to look at suspending the scheme, pending a review by which the locations be re-assessed. I have also tipped off one or two journalist pals of the genral issues raised by this and that councilors are now looking at it.

Afterall, it is only equitable planning that we are looking for, and whats good for the goose is good for the gander - So if these yokes are perfectly acceptable, then they will be equally acceptable in the well-healed southside suberbs. If on the other hand, councillors find that this scheme was planned in an inequitable manner, then it should merit an internal investigation - and that could be very interesting ;)

Fellows - jimg, Newgrange et all, well done - your research and breakdowns has been particularily useful in informing our local representatives, and the process as a whole.

Here's hoping to not having to resort to angle-grinders afterall! :)
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