De-Centralisation

Postby GrahamH » Fri Dec 05, 2003 12:36 pm

Could always dismantle the Custom House and re-erect it in a field somewhere...

Wonder who's going to move in - whoever is is going to very fortunate, the interior office space is fantastic - lots of sophisticated early 20th century charm with high ceilings, dark-stained doors, leaded glass, chunky radiators etc

Is the Dept of Comm & Marine not in that Setanta pile on Kildare/Nassau/Sth Fredrick/Molesworth St?

Considering that part of decentralisation relies on selling some of the Dublin properties, one would presume that the Dept of Agriculture is going to be sold off - should be lots of cash for the new building then - prime Dublin office building in the city centre v a field in the country.
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Postby what? » Fri Dec 05, 2003 12:36 pm

i was referring to buildings like fingal county hall, limerick county offices, offaly county offices etc.
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Postby PVC King » Fri Dec 05, 2003 12:44 pm

Rory W quote:
Also to move on Kildare St (well kind of) is the Dept of Communications, Marine & Natural Resources.

Nope - that's off to Cavan (eventually) - only in Ireland would the Department of the Marine be in a landlocked county

It is almost as good as Bolivia having a Navy on Lake Titticaca, I thought that was a joke until we met a couple of the sailors, they like the Irish government actually took the entire silly mess quite seriously.
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Postby garethace » Fri Dec 05, 2003 5:26 pm

I am just going to add another building to the list of dinosaurs here. What about the Central Bank in Dame Street? I know from one source that a lot of its operations exist out in Sandyford, yeah, the same place where LUAS is going to. Have many of you seen Sandyford lately? That seems to be where larger scale developments are now happening, and serviced by very expensive transport systems like the LUAS lightrail. How appropriate is the Central Bank Building in Dame Street to its function these days?

A lot of bank buildings have been going haven't they. Isn't a lot of these just down to web connectivity? That technology boom we all just witnessed? What I do find scary is how many cameras point at you out in Sandyford. You cannot come even within a 50 foot radius of most buildings, without some gerk security guy getting his knickers in a twist, stuck away in some security facility somewhere. Just look at what happens to Sandyford at weekends - it just becomes a space for a few overly-diligent nerd geeks working for MicroSoft overtime, and the whims of the security companies.

At least the Central Bank in Dame Street did exist within an environment of selling records, burgers and booze! Now a fitting environment for an public or financial service seems to be a heavily managed 'office park' environment. With separation of where people live and work. Connections are made using shiny looking LUAS trains.
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Postby Niall » Sat Dec 06, 2003 5:10 am

This is all absolute nonsense without the proper infrastructure....... Drove the Cork-Dublin road very recently. dream on lads!!!............................. Minor gripe, any chance of signposts on the route to mirror even a second world country?


Alice in wonderland!
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Postby garethace » Sat Dec 06, 2003 6:26 pm

Sometimes problems of living and working too close together get too much to cope with!

Shanghai massive wire problem

Too centralised, too dense, too connected?
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Postby PVC King » Sun Dec 07, 2003 2:57 pm

It is official,

Dublin People do not work in the civil service but the policy is merely allowing country people to go home according to Martin Cullen.

In the same interview critical mass is apparantly not the only issue in regional development.

The only issue that is important are consultants reports.

Buchanan 1960's

ERDO 1985 (Liam Lawlors one)

National Spatial Strategy 2002

Why get experts to advise when Tom Parlon and John O'Donaghue can predicate the future.
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Postby garethace » Sun Dec 07, 2003 6:40 pm

I saw the feature on TV3 this morning about it.
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Postby Rory W » Mon Dec 08, 2003 11:31 am

Is the Dept of Comm & Marine not in that Setanta pile on Kildare/Nassau/Sth Fredrick/Molesworth St?


Nope - its in Leeson Lane Opposite Engineers paradise (Hartigans) and on Adelaide Road. A branch ogf the Revenue were in Setanta the last time I looked
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Postby PVC King » Mon Dec 08, 2003 11:39 am

Sorry about that Rory,

There is nothing worse than being misquoted:

You are correct,
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Re: De-Centralisation

Postby PVC King » Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:52 pm

RTE Interactive wrote:

Flynn is charged after firearms find

http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0811/flynnp.html


11 August 2005 17:19
RTÉ News has learned that the former head of the Government's decentralisation project, Phil Flynn, has been charged with firearms offences.

Officers from the Criminal Assets Bureau served summonses on the former chairman of Bank of Scotland (Ireland), for possession of a firearm and ammunition without a licence.

The charges arose after detectives searched Mr Flynn's office in Dublin City Centre and found a gun and ammunition.

Mr Flynn was interviewed and a file was sent to the Director of Public Prosecutions.

He has been summonsed to appear before the Dublin District Court on 10 October.

Mr Flynn has been under investigation by the CAB since it emerged that he had travelled to Bulgaria with the principal figure in the company at the centre of the garda investigation into money-laundering in the republican movement.

Mr Flynn, a former vice-president of Sinn Féin and a former ICTU president, told RTÉ in February that he went to Bulgaria but did not explain the circumstances of the visit.

Members of the Criminal Assets Bureau have also questioned Mr Flynn on his involvement with Chesterton Finance Company Ltd.

The company's business is described in its official filings as financial intermediation except insurance and pension funding.

While Mr Flynn's name does not appear on the current Companies Office records for Chesterton, he confirmed that he was one of its non-executive directors.

Mr Flynn said gardaí visited his home in Cabra, north Dublin, and his office in Harcourt Street in the city centre.

He said they took files and documents dealing with his non-executive directorship of the company. It emerged yesterday that Mr Flynn's brother, Mr James Flynn, a Dundalk-based broker, has a business relationship with Chesterton.



Even I'm stunned to find out this guys former role
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Re: De-Centralisation

Postby JPD » Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:37 pm

Does anyone know how many of the buildings are under construction or have any images?

Thanks
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Re: De-Centralisation

Postby PVC King » Sat Oct 08, 2005 3:35 pm

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=17899

A very interesting review of whats considered hot or not.
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Re: De-Centralisation

Postby dc3 » Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:30 pm

"What about the Central Bank in Dame Street? I know from one source that a lot of its operations exist out in Sandyford..."

Dame Street is the Headquarters, Sandyford is the printing plant.
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Re: De-Centralisation

Postby PVC King » Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:57 pm

Revised spending estimates published

February 23, 2006 12:04
Finance Minister Brian Cowen has presented the revised estimates of Government spending for this year to the Dail.

The estimates reflect the spending totals announced on Budget day, with an additional €90m relating to changes agreed since then. Total spending in 2006 will be €50.6 billion, up 13% on 2005.

The additional sum mainly concerns money being spent from the Dormant Accounts Fund and an extra €25m for capital investment in second-level schools.


€105m has been allocated to the Government's decentralisation programme, down from an original Budget allocation of €155m, but extra spending of €50m will be added to future years. The review follows an examination of progress on acquiring and developing property this year.

The Government also said it would not know how much money was spent on the health service last year until the Health Service Executive finalised its accounts at the end of March.


From RTE
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Re: De-Centralisation

Postby ctesiphon » Thu Feb 23, 2006 6:30 pm

RTE wrote:€105m has been allocated to the Government's decentralisation programme, down from an original Budget allocation of €155m, but extra spending of €50m will be added to future years.

So the climbdown has begun?

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet."
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Re: De-Centralisation

Postby Cute Panda » Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:21 pm

PRESS RELEASE

East-on-Water Steering Committee Demands The Opening of the Eastern Fish Corridor

Decades of Government prejudice against the landlocked regions of this country have finally come to and end with the formation of the East-on-Water Community Campaign which demands that the Killybegs Fishing Fleet be decentralised, and that these landlocked regions be given their fair share of the government investment in the marine fishing industry.

Central to this plan is the construction of the Eastern Fish Corridor – a new waterway connecting the Royal and Grand Canals across the Bog of Allen.

East-on-Water demands that the Midlands gets it fair share of the trawlers, fishing crates, lobster pots and nets which Government policy over several decades has concentrated on developing in Donegal while ignoring the enormous potential for larges catches of Minnows, Frogs and Rats in Mid-Eastern Leinster. The construction of the very viable Eastern Fish Corridor represents a sea change in government fisheries policy. It finally puts an end to the "Donegal Mindset".

The East on Water steering committee has recently issued an expert working report, which outlines the phased opening of the Eastern Fish Corridor.

Phase One: 2006 - First Donegal Trawler is decentralised along with it crew to the pond in Stephens Green.

Phase 2: 2007 - The construction begins on the Eastern Fish Corridor through the bog of Allen to Edenderry – this will coincide with large stocks of live cod, herring and haddock being decentralised from the North Atlantic basin and released into the Royal and Grand Canals.

Phase 3: 2008 - Minister Pat “the Cope” Gallagher is beseeched by the East on Water steering committee to complete the project and decentralises the last of the over congested Donegal fishing fleet to the Midlands.

Phase Four: 2009 - The East on Water committee completely loses interest in fishing and leaves the Irish taxpayers to pick up the bill.

Said Independent TD Paranoid McHysterical of the East-on-Water Steering Committee. “The Eastern Fish Corridor finally gives the landlocked regions of this country a fair share of the Marine Fisheries Industry and makes perfect economic sense. Trawlers will be able to fish in the Midlands and deliver their catch while avoiding the Ballyshannon bottleneck. Decades of Government favouritism towards Donegal has meant that the deprived children of the Midlands have never even seen a deep water fishing trawler and we pay our taxes too and deserve our fair share of the fish pie”

ENDS
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Re: De-Centralisation

Postby BTH » Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:37 am

Can we assume that you have a problem with the reopening of the Western Rail Corridor? A simple to execute, cost effective and viable scheme which will have huge advantages for the region served not least the development of proper commuter services for the rapidly growing cities of Limerick, Galway and eventually Sligo.
Maybe you dont, but your piece (which is pretty funny and fantastically absurdist!) does seem like a bit of a thinly veiled attack on the project!
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Re: De-Centralisation

Postby PVC King » Mon Mar 20, 2006 5:26 pm

SIPTU members vote for strike action at FÁS

20 March 2006 12:54
SIPTU members at FÁS have voted overwhelmingly in favour of industrial action over Government plans to decentralise the agency to Birr, Co Offaly.

Of the 400 workers at FÁS, 250 are represented by SIPTU and 87% of those have voted for strike action.

The union says that while decentralisation is supposed to be voluntary, pressure to move is being imposed on staff by making promotion dependent on agreement to relocate outside Dublin.

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Workers also complain that they have been given no indication of what will happen to those who choose to stay in Dublin.

The National Executive Council of SIPTU will meet in the next few days to decide on granting sanction for industrial action. If it does so, the union will serve two weeks' strike notice.

It is expected that initially the workers will stage short intermittent stoppages.

Head of Human Resources at FÁS, Oliver Egan, said management was obliged to implement Government policy, and was prepared to engage with the union as proposed by the Labour Court.

He also warned that unless the issue is resolved, the long-term impact on the decentralisation agenda could be significant.


Any thoughts on this; drip drip or fatal blow?
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Re: De-Centralisation

Postby ctesiphon » Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:34 pm

[quote="Thomond Park"]Any thoughts on this]
I don't think it's possible to strike a fatal blow to a dead man.;)

But seriously, I get the impression that this is the first of many. It's been known for a long time to those who bother to ask such questions that 'decentralisation' is a complete shambles. It's only those who don't bother to ask, whether through ignorance or because they think they already know the answer, who think that this scheme will prove worthwhile. I don't doubt the govt's ability to force it through by whatever underhand method they might choose, but it has disaster writ large all over it.
How many times in how many different ways does it need to be said?
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Re: De-Centralisation

Postby PVC King » Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:53 pm

Morning strikes at Dublin FÁS offices

05 April 2006 13:52
Around 50 FÁS employees picketed outside the agency's head quarters on Dublin's Baggot Street this morning.

They are against the Government's plans to decentralise the agency to Birr, Co Offaly.

Pickets were also placed at three other Dublin offices in Clyde Road, South Circular Road and Peter Street. Pickets were to remain at the four offices until 11am this morning.

Yesterday, ten hours of talks at the Labour Relations Commission failed to resolve the row.

It is understood that while a management proposal to resume talks was acceptable to the union, it was subsequently withdrawn and redrafted.

The new draft which would have required the union to accept decentralisation in principle was said to be a 'bridge too far' for staff.


Only a small minority of the 400 staff at FÁS have agreed to decentralise to Birr.

250 staff who are members of SIPTU voted to take action after management said promotions would be linked to being prepared to relocate to Birr.

SIPTU said it was the first of a series of stoppages over decentralisation.


It appears that the deadman is attracting some unwanted attention
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Re: De-Centralisation

Postby PVC King » Sat May 13, 2006 5:00 pm

Call for decentralisation review as Ahern admits difficulties
From:ireland.com
Saturday, 13th May, 2006


Labour Party leader Pat Rabbitte has called for a review of the Government's decentralisation plan after the Taoiseach admitted it was facing serious difficulties.

The plan, which would see 10,600 civil and public servants being moved from Dublin to over 50 locations around the country, has met with opposition from unions. Staff in FAS have been staging industrial action over what they claim is pressure being put on them to move.

Bertie Ahern admitted in an interview published today that the Government's deadline for decentralisation looked increasingly unlikely to be met. "We might have taken too much on in one go," he said. "We put ourselves in too tight a timeframe."

Mr Rabbitte said today Mr Ahern's comments proved that it was the "beginning of the end" for the plan, which was devised by former Minister for Finance Charlie McCreevy in December 2003. "It was not thought out, poorly planned and incapable of being implemented on the scale and in the timeframe proposed."

He added: "The Taoiseach should now be honest with those locations which have been promised relocated agencies or Departments and which he knows is not going to happen."

The Labour leader called on Mr Ahern to engage in an all-party review to agree "a properly planned programme of decentralisation based on the national spatial strategy".

Siptu wants State agencies removed from the decentralisation plan. The union will hold a protest next week outside the offices of Minister of State at the Department of Finance Tom Parlon, who is responsible for implementing the project.

The Impact union, which represents 1,200 civil servants and state agency staff earmarked for relocation, warned last week it was planning a lobbying campaign for the next General Election as dissatisfaction with decentralisation was a major issue for Dublin voters.



Decentralisation is problematic says Ahern

13 May 2006 13:42
The Taoiseach has conceded that the Government may have taken too much on in one go with regard to its decentralisation plan.

In an interview with the Irish Independent, Mr Ahern said many civil and public servants wanted to move, but that the sizeable logistics involved were causing difficulties.

He was commenting on the plan to move more than 10,600 civil servants to 50 locations outside Dublin.

There have been continuing calls from civil service unions for the policy to be re-examined.

The Labour party leader Pat Rabbitte has called for a review of the government's plans. He said the Taoiseach's comments were an admission that decentralisation cannot work.


Finally some grasp of reality is starting to be shown by those in government;

Parlon's position is starting to look untenable on this and the reference to him in Chaos in relation to the Standish situation was really quite unbelievable and displays what Osterich type positions he has the capacity to adopt.
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Re: De-Centralisation

Postby a boyle » Sun May 14, 2006 3:23 pm

really thomond...

parlon is on record as stating that he has 10600 people signed up to move, while seeking 10000. With the country so small there is no reason why the headquarters of many goverment function can't be placed in different parts of the country. For goodness sake , france germany and america are hugely decentralised. Companies stretch across the globe with no trouble. With people commuting from portlaoise to dublin , why can't fas be located in the midlands? They have 'outlet' sprinkled throughout the country , so it can't make much difference where they are. what really difference would it make if the headquarters of aerlingus were in shannon? or the tourism boar was in galway. How often do the tourism boards actually meet face to face with others groups ? it only takes two hour to cross the country for goodness sake !!!

kerry food groups has their world headquarters in where ? kerry. decentralisation is a great idea. The only fault is that the expectation was raised that it could be done quickly.

Bertie admitted problems as he is only to happy to heap s**t on all three pd ministers (fairly/or not , depending on your opinion) Parlon has had this decentralisation thing for just long enough that he is now seen as 'owning' the issue/problem

This is a political discussion not appropriate to this website. thumbs down to you .thumbs down.
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Re: De-Centralisation

Postby PVC King » Sun May 14, 2006 4:47 pm

a boyle wrote: really thomond...

parlon is on record as stating that he has 10600 people signed up to move, while seeking 10000.



I'd love to see that list published on a department/agency by department basis


a boyle wrote: With the country so small there is no reason why the headquarters of many goverment function can't be placed in different parts of the country. For goodness sake , france germany and america are hugely decentralised.


The difference is that places like France and Germany have decentralised to large centres taking the UK as an example large back office functions are decentralised to places like Sheffield or Liverpool and the key decision making functions are retained in the capital] Companies stretch across the globe with no trouble. With people commuting from portlaoise to dublin , why can't fas be located in the midlands? They have 'outlet' sprinkled throughout the country , so it can't make much difference where they are. what really difference would it make if the headquarters of aerlingus were in shannon? [/QUOTE]

Fas workers wish to remain in the capital as should be their right unless the government wishes to go the private sector route and pay redundancy re: Aer Lingus Shannon would be an acceptable location given the needs of their business but moving Marine to Virginia is akin to moving Aer Lingus to Belmullet.


a boyle wrote: or the tourism boar was in galway. How often do the tourism boards actually meet face to face with others groups ? it only takes two hour to cross the country for goodness sake !!!


Research indicates that even in the age of conference calls and e-commerce the average manager has at least 5 face to face meetings per week off site] kerry food groups has their world headquarters in where ? kerry. decentralisation is a great idea. The only fault is that the expectation was raised that it could be done quickly. [/QUOTE]

Kerry Foods are close to their main production site their business is entirely product driven comparisons with between a food ingredients leader and national governance have little vailidity.

a boyle wrote: Bertie admitted problems as he is only to happy to heap s**t on all three pd ministers (fairly/or not , depending on your opinion) Parlon has had this decentralisation thing for just long enough that he is now seen as 'owning' the issue/problem

This is a political discussion not appropriate to this website. thumbs down to you .thumbs down.


I agree spatial planning should have little to do with politics but in this instance it has; had a sensible decentralisation programme been put together where multi-department back office functions were decentralised to a small number of large sites in NSS designated gateways I amongst many others would be welcoming this
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Re: De-Centralisation

Postby a boyle » Sun May 14, 2006 5:51 pm

for many of the government functions the location of its headquarters is almost irrelevant. this is because these agencies have a national network. So say fas was in portlaoise, time lost travelling back to have meeting with the minister for jobs , is offset by time saved travelling to and from the network. This would apply to the departement for health & hse-no reason it could not be located outside the capital, it has to have regular contacts with all hospitals.

This applies directly to the department of education as. this department spends much more time deally with clients (schools) than with the rest of government. so it makes sense to move it west and save on travel between it and all the schools of the country .

Any large organisation has to overcome the human management issues that come with size and so how kerry foods runs itseld is very important in the context of government. 2 decentralisation in ireland is not like moving from london to another city , as ireland is tiny.a fraction of the size of other countries. it would be a county in america.

3. are you biased ? are you a manager of some organisation (and so perhaps have some real insight), or are you possibly a civil servant who doesn't want to move out of the big smoke ?
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