Dundalk

Re: Dundalk

Postby GrahamH » Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:04 am

But really, all smart-arsing aside, it is astonishing how the developers were allowed get away with such monstrous rubbish which one sees the centre in its entirely – it is a series of malls in a giant shed that have been pasted over with signature ‘buildings’ of traditional fluff, all linked together with ‘bridge blocks’ – quite literally brightly painted dolls house architecture with Tegral slates, which fill in the gaps between the pastiche ‘historic buildings’:

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I mean what self-respecting architect would have the audacity to install Barbie gates in all of these blocks? They must have put themselves in theme park mode, and treated the whole scheme as a big joke – how else could you hold yourself together?
In all seriousness, is there any difference in the architecture above, and that of this house?

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They’re remarkably similar!


To take a breather for a moment and pop inside, the building is made up of two/three double-height malls linked together by rotundas – all smothered in acres of polished stone tiles:

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Nothing overly innovative save some LEDs set into the floor at the base of every pier:

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The vast orangery building is occupied on the ground floor by little more than a few stands, hence you have to walk a substantial distance to get to the centre proper:

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To correct an earlier statement, there is some new public seating in this area in the form of a lavish leather suite of furniture, but this is very limited, with nothing in the main malls or rotundas where people will need to sit.

Overall, the centre is architecturally such a disappointment to the exterior, whilst the interior, beautifully finished, looks nonetheless rather vulgar with the vast acres of stone, and feels wasteful with fans blasting away to heat huge double-height malls – you feel like you’re in some sort of mini ecosphere as garethace has referenced to before.

As a commerical building, it hits all the right spots – the people love the exterior, with the local paper saying ‘…crowds of shoppers all amazed at both the range of shops and the stunning architecture.’ And the project manager saying the style was chosen to reflect the ‘historic buildings of Dundalk’.

Think this sums it up:

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Re: Dundalk

Postby Paul Clerkin » Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:17 am

Love that last shot. Want to write a quick piece and i'll publish it om the main site
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Re: Dundalk

Postby GrahamH » Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:28 am

Is there supposed to be a ? at the end of that just to be clear?

It was interesting to note the difference between the Dublin centres and Dundalk - in the capital security would pounce on you quicker than you could say cheese with a camera on their premises, but in Dundalk it's a much more relaxed affair - they wander right past you wthout a care in the world! Similarly outside they just stroll aimlessly about, and even with the place crawling with secuity cameras - no interference.
Though maybe there will be after this ;)
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Re: Dundalk

Postby Paul Clerkin » Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:29 am

just a quick piece describing the ludicrous nature of it - i'll use some of these photos
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Postby lexington » Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:36 am

I'm trying to figure out why I'm smiling so much???? I'm not sure if it's disbelief, laughter in the wings, some form of admiration or...well, frankly I don't know.

You'd think if they were going to put so much effort into a theme they would have had the graciousness to make it half-decent - why go to all the effort and then have a big arse of a grey cardboard box sticking out the back???

Still, it's an interesting twist on the regular recent additions to Irish Shopping Centre-world all the same. Not quite sure what to make of it. At least there's some sort of character to it - albeit a schizophrenic one. Someone had fun. As you say, as a commercial building - right spots are being hit. With this sort of building, what would you consider more 'important' - public perception or professional architectural standing??? Going to have to see this one myself in the flesh. :p
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Re: Dundalk

Postby GrahamH » Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:37 am

Having a relative that sells dolls houses in the huge UK industry, I really cannot get over just how textbook dolls house design this building is - it's a life-size miniature, surely a world first?!
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Re: Dundalk

Postby GrahamH » Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:24 am

25/2/2006

Alas I spoke too soon on the other thread about the removal of foliage around Carrolls - its merely being replaced with trees :mad:

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Whilst there's still very fine views to be had of the building between the trees, the magical setting of the building's island effect, sited in a lake of green lawns has been destroyed :(.
Seeing the grass run right up to the road was so refreshing - and the impact of the trees is going to be even worse come summer, as elegant and structural as they may be.

You can see the 'ha-ha' ditch here - it seems this is to be replanted too given the shrubbery that seem to be in boxes everywhere :(

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Still looks is best in the morning mist or the evening sun, as below. Its sheer elegance never fails to catch the eye - I've never grown tired of it, passing it nearly every day for years at this stage.

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Stunning
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Re: Dundalk

Postby PVC King » Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:38 pm

Any news on the multi-seater arena for Dundalk?
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Re: Dundalk

Postby Paul Clerkin » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:51 am

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Re: Dundalk

Postby phil » Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:29 am

Graham Hickey wrote:But really, all smart-arsing aside, it is astonishing how the developers were allowed get away with such monstrous rubbish which one sees the centre in its entirely – it is a series of malls in a giant shed that have been pasted over with signature ‘buildings’ of traditional fluff, all linked together with ‘bridge blocks’ – quite literally brightly painted dolls house architecture with Tegral slates, which fill in the gaps between the pastiche ‘historic buildings’:


A pure example of a 'decorated shed':p
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Re: Dundalk

Postby anto » Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:18 pm

Graham Hickey wrote:But really, all smart-arsing aside, it is astonishing how the developers were allowed get away with such monstrous rubbish which one sees the centre in its entirely – it is a series of malls in a giant shed that have been pasted over with signature ‘buildings’ of traditional fluff, all linked together with ‘bridge blocks’ – quite literally brightly painted dolls house architecture with Tegral slates, which fill in the gaps between the pastiche ‘historic buildings’:

Image

Image

Image

I mean what self-respecting architect would have the audacity to install Barbie gates in all of these blocks? They must have put themselves in theme park mode, and treated the whole scheme as a big joke – how else could you hold yourself together?
In all seriousness, is there any difference in the architecture above, and that of this house?

Image

They’re remarkably similar!


To take a breather for a moment and pop inside, the building is made up of two/three double-height malls linked together by rotundas – all smothered in acres of polished stone tiles:

Image

Image

Nothing overly innovative save some LEDs set into the floor at the base of every pier:

Image

The vast orangery building is occupied on the ground floor by little more than a few stands, hence you have to walk a substantial distance to get to the centre proper:

Image

To correct an earlier statement, there is some new public seating in this area in the form of a lavish leather suite of furniture, but this is very limited, with nothing in the main malls or rotundas where people will need to sit.

Overall, the centre is architecturally such a disappointment to the exterior, whilst the interior, beautifully finished, looks nonetheless rather vulgar with the vast acres of stone, and feels wasteful with fans blasting away to heat huge double-height malls – you feel like you’re in some sort of mini ecosphere as garethace has referenced to before.

As a commerical building, it hits all the right spots – the people love the exterior, with the local paper saying ‘…crowds of shoppers all amazed at both the range of shops and the stunning architecture.’ And the project manager saying the style was chosen to reflect the ‘historic buildings of Dundalk’.

Think this sums it up:

Image




People love this kind of stuff. I mean look at the disaster that is the Four Seasons in Balls Bridge; Don't think it's affecting its business too much!
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Re: Dundalk

Postby fergalr » Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:39 pm

Image

With that little cupola, the entrance bears a bit fo a resemblence to one of the stages in the design of the US Capitol....

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Re: Dundalk

Postby GrahamH » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:51 am

:D



Alas this tour has been cancelled. However a day long tour of the Louth area by the IGS takes place on Saturday the 29th of April. Members of the public pay an additional charge.
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Re: Dundalk

Postby GrahamH » Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:57 am

Came across a certain collection of glass plates over the weekend. Lovely things.

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Re: Dundalk

Postby PVC King » Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:23 pm

The mini- metropolis: plans for Dundalk and Newry
Archiseek / Ireland / News / 2006 / April 28
The Irish Times

Plans are being drawn up to develop Dundalk and Newry as a cross-Border "mini-metropolis" with the aim of ensuring that the two towns are not eclipsed by the accelerating growth and influence of Dublin and Belfast. The concept of a "third city" half-way between them is being put forward as a way of liberating the region from "negative attributes of its historic and political legacy," according to Louise Browne, of Colin Buchanan planning consultants. She told the Irish Planning Institute's annual conference in Sligo yesterday that the collaborative project is being advanced by Newry and Mourne District Council, Louth County Council and Dundalk Town Council. [


Hmmmm

Slight geographical bias in the form of landscape features mitigates against this happening unless one wishes to use the West Midlands in the UK as a beacon of planning enlightenment. :o
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Re: Dundalk

Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:59 am

Lord Roden to sell freehold of Dundalk

The Roden estate is selling its rights in Dundalk to include ground rents, mineral and other rights, leases, and manorial rights. There's even some capital value from an uncertain number of small sites around the town and portions of waste-ground which have never been leased. Rose Doyle reports

It will be an historic sale - not to mention an interesting and bizarre one - when the freehold of the town of Dundalk goes for sale by public tender on July 21st.

The town's new owner will have rights to its ground rents, to mineral and other rights, to title documents, leases, maps which include a large and valuable 18th century estate map, and to manorial rights.


The not-unimportant last will give the owner the right to call their home, modest or otherwise, the manor of Dundalk. There is even, according to auctioneer Anthony McArdle of McArdle and Son, Dundalk, "some capital value involved".

This last would come from the collection of active ground rents, in the region of 100 in number and payable by such as homeowners and a number of breweries, and an uncertain number of small sites around the town, portions of waste-ground which have never been leased.

All is at the moment part of the Roden estate, itself an interesting job lot in the ownership of the 9th heir to Lord Roden.

Dundalk's ownership story began in the 16th century when King Charles II of England gave the town to Lord Dungannon. Dungannon, in the following century, sold to Lord Limerick, the Earl of Clanbrassil and the man responsible for developing much of the town. Later in that 17th century the property passed on to Lord and Lady Roden.

It has remained with the Roden estate ever since, passing from one generation to the next. The present Lord and Lady Roden are trustees of the estate, live in Galway, and want to dispose of their assets in the estate.

Anthony McArdle, with some understatement, admits that a sale like this one is unusual. "It's a curiosity and there's no AMV; the highest tender will secure. There are definitely about three-to-four small sites vacant in the town, yards and such which could be used for construction purposes. The market rights are another part of the sale, though of indeterminate worth. Ground rents are payable yearly, some residential houses paying about €3 per year and larger sites used by breweries, like Harp Larger on Carrick Road and the former site of McArdle Moore, paying more. All of these ground rents can be bought out by those renting at any time."

McArdle points out that Don McDonagh of McDonagh Matthews and Breen, on Distillery Lane, Dundalk has "boxes and boxes of title documents, including Ordnance Survey maps of the Roden estate, available for inspection - though not the estate map which is too valuable to have on public display."

Prospective purchasers are advised by McArdle to carry out "a meticulous inspection and satisfy themselves as to what they're getting. It could make money for someone, depending on what's established. We have lots of historical and archaeological experts expressing interest."
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Re: Dundalk

Postby GrahamH » Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:58 am

Great story – can’t imagine there’s many freeholds of entire towns left nowadays!
There should be a good many vacant sites and wasteland about the place with a certain value – it’ll be interesting to see what crops up, and what the overall freehold sells for. I’d love to know what houses still pay ground rent, and indeed if they actually pay it!


In other Dundalk news, Murray O'Laoire’s private hospital to the north of Dundalk has been rejected outright by ABP; the project has effectively been stunted as currently sited.

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The 100 bed hospital was rejected on numerous grounds, all relating to the location, including the area’s zoning “to protect the scenic quality of the landscape and facilitate development required to sustain the existing local rural community”. The Board considered the development to be “visually intrusive” and “contravene materially the zoning objective of the county development plan”.
The building was also to be built on a flood plain in a location without municipal sewage, and this flood plain of Dundalk Bay a proposed SAC. APB also citied very rightly the hospital’s ridiculously isolated location which would be entirely car dependent, difficult to access due to its remoteness, and equally so for those only with access to public transport - which would also be my main objection to an otherwise impressive-looking proposal.

Councillors had earlier voted by 15 to 9 in favour of rezoning the site to permit the hospital to go ahead, but they needed a two thirds majority for it to pass, so failed. It was for this reason that the hospital developers lodged an appeal to ABP. Louth County Planning have indicated that they would have permitted the development, describing it as consistent with proper planning of Dundalk as a gateway etc. But it’s not even in Dundalk! This NSS gets more ridiculous by the day – far from being used as a blueprint for consolidated development, it’s being used for exactly the opposite!


In other news, one of the country’s tallest buildings is quietly nearing topping out stage (this time in Dundalk) at the entrance to the town right behind Carroll’s. The 14 storey, 140 bedroom, four star Crowne Plaza Hotel appears to be one of the few tall buildings on the island to have sailed through the planning process, even in spite of its location within yards of the protected Carroll’s Factory.

It’s designed by the ever-expanding Van Dijk Architects, one of the largest architectural practices in the country now, based in Dundalk.

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©Van Dijk Architects

I like it. It’s more stunted looking there than the tall elegant concrete frame we can see at the minute, but it’s still nicely proportioned and detailed – excellent finishing by the looks of things. It’ll be interesting to see how that high contrast glazing turns out. The building holds an imposing presence where it is sited, closing the vista of the approach road from the M1 into the town. It does detract to a degree from Carroll’s in that the sprawling complex has now lost its dominance in the area, but the hotel doesn’t actually impinge on views of the building when going north into the town. Exiting southwards however and it looms over it like Liberty Hall to the Custom House…

You can see its rough positioning here on this aerial view, marked in blue, with Carroll’s being the white-roofed building in front:

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The hotel is part of a broader scheme which was permitted by a land swap by DKIT in exchange for student facilities. So not only is the hotel going in, but also this small-scale business campus fronting the bypass (with highly tailored pools of water suspiciously similar to Carroll’s), and a host of student accommodation buildings to the right which seem very well-designed, hopefully of the same white brick as the recent additions to the DKIT campus.

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Ample provision for student parking of course :rolleyes:
A sports centre and student services is going in to the buildings marked 3 and 4 according to the local paper. I presume none of this encroaches on views of Carroll’s from the N1…
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Re: Dundalk

Postby Devin » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:09 pm

I fear the Murray O’Laoire building is the type of building that architects like but the public hate.



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‘What’s dahh? ssfuckin horrible’




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Re: Dundalk

Postby GrahamH » Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:14 am

Indeed it is more than ironic that such a well-designed building is partially rejected on the grounds of being 'visually intrusive', whilst dormer bungalows continue to be erected by the bucketload all over Louth's landscapes, not least further south in Ardee, where three houses a week on average are granted permission on the outskirts of the small town. Indeed the very area that the hospital was proposed for north of the town has been a favoured area for one-off houses for the past 20 years.


Associated with this matter is the most wonderful blurb by the developers of the Marshes Shopping Centre in the local paper last week. Even the grammar speaks volumes:

“Pioneering in its architectural style for a shopping centre development, the east façade creates an appearance of terrace civic buildings of Georgian and Victorian period. Varying eaves heights and an array of traditional building materials have been employed to create authenticity. Feature towers, dormer windows, cupolas and clocks add punctuation and demonstrate the quality and attention to detail that makes the development both timeless and unique.”

Hmmm, no mention of the ‘West Façade’. Strange that.

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And again just like one-off housing, it goes on:

“Internally the high specification is mirrored. The mall, however, is a complementary contrast with a fresh modern style. A glazed roof arches the mall and is interjected by three feature glazed-domes; the result is an environment rich in light [and blasted with artificial heat]. A slight concave softens the longitude of the mall whilst extensive limestone flooring, polished stone clad pillars and the use of light colours maintain a high level of illumination and provide vitality and interest in public areas.”

The article leaves one wondering though - what exactly is a ‘state of the art food court’? :confused:
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Re: Dundalk

Postby Rory W » Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:13 pm

[quote="Graham Hickey"]The article leaves one wondering though - what exactly is a ‘]

Why it means it has a subway as well as a KFC.

Was in the Marshes centre recently - crock of shite both architecturally and shopping wise!
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Re: Dundalk

Postby GrahamH » Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:14 am

Ha!

A bit closer to the 21st century, here's the Crowne Plaza Hotel going up behind Carroll's (sorry about low-res):

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Hard to believe that this:

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...will soon be this:

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Even though it is 14 storeys, I imagine it won't really stand out in the national height stakes, given hotel accommodation ceiling heights are barely more than the domestic eight feet.
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Re: Dundalk

Postby paul h » Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:35 am

i can imagine the talk of the town
jesus its like feckin new york here now..........
next there will be drive by shootings and crack cocaine........


if the latter is not already true!! :)
im jokin of course, dundalk is a fabulous place, having spent some time in the tech
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Re: Dundalk

Postby Morlan » Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:15 pm

Now why couldn't they have built a few of those in the docklands?
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Re: Dundalk

Postby eamoss » Sun Oct 15, 2006 1:46 am

Have to say its coming along nicely
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Re: Dundalk

Postby Mccanno » Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:39 pm

EXILE ON MAIN ST.

Returning to the Marshes shopping centre, the big problem is that it has effectively killed off Clanbrassil street as the shopping centre of the town, a lot of work needs to go into regenerating the centre of the town. Principally, the Market square is and always has been a disaster, and that pavilion and fountain should be wiped clean off it. It is completely under-used, sadly, only by the winos, there were problems when the farmers market set up there, on a public square called Market square, they were told they could not use it! The Marshes Centre is quite close to the town centre but has no proper pedestrian access from the centre. It operates as a seperate bubble and dosen't integrate into the town.

Of course the problem is people love it, some architect visited the town for an afternoon, seen some old red brick buildings and a cathedral near the site. It seems they got an encyclopedia article on architecture and asked a six year old or my granny what she would like.

Aside from the poor location and linking with the nearby town centre, and the montage of Disney elements, and the sheer length of the building, it's layout inside is even crap, when you enter through the grand mosque entrance, closest to the town centre, you are faced with a long empty nothing and a wall

Its full of all those shit British high street shops, and it's advanced food court consists of KFC, Burger King and Subway - then there is an O'Briens & Costa Coffee elsewhere in the building. Security are everywhere and toilets are next to impossible to find.
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