Parnell Square redevelopment

Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby GregF » Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:05 pm

I hope the 1916 Memorial Garden will get a decent makeover.....whats there at the moment is seriously lacking. More features and characteristics of such memorials should be included to make it more of a defining monument for the city...ie if grand archway leading into the garden was added would be a start. The recent memorial gardens that were opened in Washington USA to the war dead of WWII is not bad. It has an air of grandeur and solemnity which is needed in such cases.
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby Maskhadov » Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:56 pm

how much of that framework has actually being implemented ? I think something like the above would be great for the entire area.
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby PVC King » Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:04 pm

Greg that looks like the backdrop to the Eucharistic congress
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby GrahamH » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:25 am

Just a couple of things from up on the Square.

The replica Georgian on the west side, probably the first 'genuine' attempt at such a building in 10 years in the capital, is finally in an advanced stage of construction. Granite sills are in place, and most of the Flemish bond brick is in place, a rare sight nowadays:

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A large apartment block is being built to the rear...
Overall the right decision I think given the wider context of the impressive mid-18th century stepped streetscape here.


Unfortunately the rest of the square most certainly is not a hive of activity - still some appalling scenes of dereliction a stone's throw from the city's main street:

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...not dissimilar to the condition of many other the houses on the Gardniner Estate, as if the Celtic Tiger had never even happened.


Look at the difference with the restored house next door:

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Passing the Hugh Lane/Charlemont House before Christmas I couldn't believe my eyes at the new extension to the building - it is juxtaposing gone completely insane:

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The setting of the house, and indeed the building itself has been destroyed by this astonishingly arrogant intrusion. The glazed wall is the epitome of 'contrastisim' in all its vulgarity and smug self-confidence: the practice of using 'daring' materials in the generation of a juxtaposition of styles to excuse the insertion of pretty much anything into a special, usually historic environment.

The architects Gilroy McMahon say the glazed extension is "the only opportunity we had to advertise what's going on in here". Indeed.

I am sick of the 'cutting edge' excuse being used in the permitting of historic environments to be invaded on, and this is the practice at its very very worst. Indeed it has little to do with the Georgian environment - of much greater concern is the complete upsetting of the architectural composition of the house and flanking terraces, both in their own right and in the wider context of their uniqueness in the city.

It beggars belief what has been permitted up there - sure why don't we glaze in the courtyards of the Four Courts while we're at it, or how about some nice shimmering plates of infill to rid us of those nasty drafty gaps in the colonnade of the Bank of Ireland? We won't even notice them - sure they're all modern like, our brains will just blank them out :rolleyes:

GUBU :mad:
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby Devin » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:42 am

Yes that extension is too much. It should in no way have come out flush with the house's facade. That's really quite shocking ... the impact on the integrity of the house is huge ...
I don't recall this going through planning. Was it a Part X application?
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby StephenC » Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:37 pm

Ah yeah....thats the way things work. I thought it looked a bit crass myself. Im not sure if repeating it on the other side might mitigate the obtrusiveness of the original?

Next door the former National Ballroom got a paint job but not much else. I'm looking forward to seeing the whole gallery completed. Its been renamed to the Dublin City Gallery: The Hugh Lane. I quiet liked the sound of Municipal Art Gallery myself!

Moving up to Parnell Street...a hive of activity these days. DCC have a notice up to demolish the three council blocks on Lwr Dominick Street and the corner element on Parnell St. A new mixed use development is going up. Anyone have any idea whats being proposed.

Also that eyesore beside Jurys is being developed - 8 storeys.

And! Mary Harney and Co are set to move to Chapel House (part of the Penneys redevelopment) soon thus vacating poor auld Hawkins House.
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:56 pm

The biggest problem with it is that it should have been stepped back. Gilroy McMahon have tried to replicate what they did at Collins Barracks but it doesn't work. Really spoils the house.
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby a boyle » Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:20 pm

I like it , it simple not too showy. Very nicely done ! I particulary approve of it being flush with the main building. Top marks !
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby Boyler » Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:51 pm

If the glazing was built on the other side of the gallery as well, it might have turned out better.
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby PVC King » Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:56 pm

Gilroy McMahon are losing their touch
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby GrahamH » Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:46 am

I don't think it's necessarily their fault - there's only so many ways you can handle a bit of fancy glazing. It is the demands of their client that must be called into question, and the decision taken by planners, i.e. it is the very concept of filling in one side of the house that matters rather than how it is executed.

Obviously glazing is going to be adopted over solid elements as a given in such circumstances, so the architect is largely just left with the choice of what glazing to use - of marginal importance in the broader context of deciding to fill in the gap in the first place. The transparency of the finished structure to the top is very appealing, and the glazing has a certain finesse, but that's not the point.

Also, the raw exposure of structural elements like the stairs and the internal walls is horribly crass for such a decorous set-piece. Such brutal 'honesty' is usually confined to interiors of historic complexes and generally works exceedingly well, but here it's many more times invasive out of doors where there's nothing else for it to interact with, and also you've no choice but to look at it.
Agreed Collins Barracks works very well, but here it should not have been permitted. Yes there was a small nasty extension here bofore the glazing that was less than pleasant, but it had nowhere near the impact that this structure does. And it was set back.
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby PVC King » Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:20 pm

I hear what you are saying but suspect that Gilroy McMahon have probably turned down work in the past that they may have considered would risk their once flawless reputation.
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby fergalr » Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:24 pm

Charlemont House was my favourite Georgian house on the northside....they've ruined the facade. This bloody country...
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby a boyle » Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:56 pm

It's a great extension.By being in line with the main building it highlights it wonderfully. Honestly Mr. Hickey how can you want glazing on the one hand , and complain that you can see through it ?

The glazing is a simple as possible. You can see that it is even held up from inside the structure.

If the extension was set back it would draw your attention to it. Instead as it is it focuses all eyes on the main building. It being so simple and different from the original work I can apreciate the old by itself , the new extension , and the two together.

It was a very very good idea to extend the gallery. It has saved a fine georgian building.

I would like to see the gallery extend to the left building in the future.Indeed It could be argued that the Hugh Lane should take over most of that side of the square .

TOP MARKS !!!
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby GregF » Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:10 pm

The Hugh Lane is a great little gallery too with some fine works mainly from the impressionist era. It is a great liitle treasure to have on the north side of the city here. Fair play to Hugh Lane, who tragically drowned when the Luisitania was sank by the Germans. He bequeathed many paintings to the gallery in Dublin and theres wrangling going on to this day over more paintings still held by London. Francis Bacon's studio the latest major aquisition. There's Monets, Manets, Renoirs and Courbets to see as well as modern Irish painters. Check out the impasto of Mancini paintings.
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby dodger » Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:17 pm

Bottom Marks from me!!

The graceful symmetry has been completely destroyed. Why they couldn't just leave it be.
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby PVC King » Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:37 pm

Thomond Park is running a book:

Extension removed within 5 years 12/1

Extension removed within 5-10 years 3/1

Extension removed within 10-15 years 6/4

Extension removed within 15-20 years 6/4

Extension not removed within 20 years 2/1
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby BTH » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:45 pm

The juxtaposition works for me. There's nothing I dislike more than a modern extension to an old building either trying too hard to be sympathetic thus losing any integrity of it's own, or lurking in the set-back shadows trying to pretend it isn't there.
At least this extension has it's own quality whilst clearly allowing the original facade to dominate the composition. A symmetrical extension on the other side would obviously be of beneifit so let's hope that that's in the medium term plans for the gallery.
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby DJM » Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:43 pm

Pity to see this extension tacked on I think. The glass wall does look well if considered on its own, but is not particularly well suited as an addition to such a stand-alone building. Symmetry was an essential element of Georgian design & the building has now been thrown off balance, which is a shame. :(

Here's a picture - pre modification - taken in early 2005.
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby Devin » Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:19 am

Yes, well put DJM.

I've just shrunk your picture so that it fits a bit better in the screen.
.
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby Paul Clerkin » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:17 am

Just a quick and dirty version of it knocked back a bit
not perfect but you get the idea
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby Paul Clerkin » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:21 am

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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby DJM » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:33 am

Yeah sorry I couldn't manage to shrink it myself - i did try!! :confused:

I seem to remember visiting a thread that dealt with how to submit & modify photos, I had a load of pics for the Henrietta St thread, but their capacity was way too big, so I could'nt post them.

Could someone please re-direct me, as I can no longer find my way :o
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby a boyle » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:35 am

Paul Clerkin wrote:Just a quick and dirty version of it knocked back a bit
not perfect but you get the idea


I think this shows what is built is the very best solution. In this photomontage the extension just add another depth to the building. It appears even more unbalanced to me.

It is also clear that the extension could not be hidden.

To those who really hate it It probably won't really matter. Often when these kinds of additions are built, they become a handy place to put addvertisement posters for the gallery. With a poster each side , daaaadaaa! balance restored.
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Re: Parnell Square redevelopment

Postby GrahamH » Fri Mar 03, 2006 2:04 am

I think you're misrepresenting the situation a boyle. It is not the use of glazing that offends, nor is it the absence of 'sympathetic' solid elements BTH suggested earlier; rather it is the imbalance created at the location but much more so (in my view anyway) the blatent intrusion that it is into this historic enclosure. Nothing ought to have been built - end of story. To build yet another extension to the other side is merely adding insult to injury.

And yes you're quite right, advertising banners no doubt will be tacked onto it over time. Just as one thing leads to another, the previous inappropriate extension to the right-hand side acted as an excuse to further intensify the site with this glazed extension, which in turn may permit another extension to be built to the other side, which in turn will no doubt permit tacky 'oh but they're only temporary' banners to be suspended on this most historic and architecturally significant set-piece.

And to be clear about the glazing, to be able to see through the top part of the facade through the ceiling beyond to the sky is what I was referring to previously as being of merit, not the exposure of a utilitarian stairwell and the sneaky masking of an extension jutting out from the National Ballroom.

This unique setting in Dublin of a mansion house framed by flanking purpose-designed terraces ought not have been touched with a barge-pole. This fashionable concept of inserting new structures into highly sensitive locations simply on the basis of their 'radical' materials has reached ridiculous proportions at Charlemont House - the idea having garnered acceptability amongst the architectural elite is now flung at nearly every project going, almost as a requirement in order to give the 'conservation' project a certain dazzle and get the tongues wagging. Some of it will be regretted into the future, and is sorely so already in this instance.
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