Liffey Cable Cars - Pointless Gimmick or....

[Lorcan]

Won't this obstruct many of the buildings along the liffey? and towers taller than liberty hall? i can't see how this is a good idea?

[kefu]

Here's a computerised image of the scheme:-

[kefu]

And the story that goes along with it:

Plan for cable car attraction on Liffey
Frank McDonald and Ruadhan Mac Eoin
Saturday, February 4
A private consortium is proposing to develop a cable car service along the Liffey Quays in Dublin, running between Heuston Station and Docklands.
The cable cars would transport sightseers at heights approaching 80 metres (264ft) above the river from the Guinness Brewery near Heuston to a terminal located near the planned national conference centre at Spencer Dock.
Aimed primarily at the tourism market, the cable cars would give people a birds-eye view of many of Dublin's landmarks, including the Custom House, the Four Courts, St James' Gate Brewery and the National Museum at Collins Barracks.
Each of the four cable cars would have capacity for 25 people and the duration of a trip in either direction would be around 20 minutes.
It is anticipated that most passengers would travel by cable car one-way and make their return by other means.
Currently the ticket price is estimated at €15, which the promoters say compares "very favourably" to other attractions such as the London Eye which costs over €17 per visit.
The €52 million project, which is headed by Dublin property developer Barry Boland, would involve erecting four giant steel towers - two of them significantly taller than Liberty Hall and the other two almost as high - along the three kilometre route.
The towers, designed by architects McGarry Ní Éanaigh and engineers Roughan O'Donovan, would be located at Watling Street bridge, Wood Quay, Marlborough Street and Custom House Quay. The longest span between them would be 930 metres.
"The choice was between a large number of small towers or a small number of high towers," Mr Boland said. In opting for the latter, the height of the towers would range between 55 and 80 metres - with the tallest two being in the middle of the route.
He also told The Irish Times that the "fully engineered, fully costed and fully funded" scheme would include two new pedestrian bridges across the Liffey - one linking Marlborough Street with Hawkins Street and the other from Wood Quay to Ormond Quay.
He said senior officials of Dublin City Council, the Dublin Docklands Development Authority and Guinness had all indicated "enthusiastic support" for the cable car project and negotiations have been initiated to take it to the planning application stage.
"It's a very strong idea that would make new connections in the city," chief city planner Dick Gleeson said yesterday. "We're about to commence a framework plan for the Liffey and this would be a very dynamic element within a reinvigorated river corridor."
He said the proposal would be subject to an environmental impact statement as part of a planning application, and details also had to be finalised about landings for the towers, which he described as "amazingly light" despite their huge scale.
Assuming that the results are positive, Mr Boland said a planning application would be made in four months. If permission is granted, the project would be completed in four years and would remain in the hands of the private operators thereafter.

[lunasa]

Totally gaga. It'll end up like that slimey clock.

[hutton]

And an opinion piece by Frank Mc D on the same -



Daring plan inspired by London Eye


The proposal for cable cars along the Liffey is a sensational example
of lateral thinking, writes Frank McDonald

For decades, Dublin has been divided by the River Liffey, with the
northside and the southside glowering at each other over its murky
depths. But now there is a daring plan to celebrate the river,
bringing the two sides together in a quite remarkable way.

The proposal to run cable cars over the river between Heuston Station
and North Wall Quay, just west of Spencer Dock, is designed as a
tourist attraction rather than a transport service.

But like all bright ideas, it is a sensational example of lateral
thinking. Developer Barry Boland, of Beaux Walk Properties Ltd, has
been working on it for a year and earlier this week presented it to
senior Dublin City Council officials, including city manager John
Fitzgerald. Their response, not surprisingly, was enthusiastic.

It was inspired by the success of the London Eye, which generated some
£60 million (€88.28 million) in revenue last year, according to Mr
Boland. His cable car project would also be run as a commercial
enterprise, but its thrill-seekers would be "going somewhere".

The plan has its challenging aspects - not least the installation of
four giant "towers" along the river to support the cable lines. But as
conceived by architects McGarry Ní Éanaigh and engineers Roughan
O'Donovan, these are light and elegant structures.

Both firms have good track records. McGarry Ní Éanaigh designed the
lighting masts in Smithfield, as well as the highly successful Liffey
Boardwalk, while Roughan O'Donovan designed the Luas bridge in Dundrum
and the Boyne bridge outside Drogheda.

One of the principal objectives in the project, fully costed at €52
million by quantity surveyors Bruce Shaw, was to minimise the visual
impact of the support structures. This has been done by limiting them
to four, instead of cluttering up the riverscape.

Two of the steel towers - at the end of Marlborough Street and in
front of the Civic Offices at Wood Quay - would be 85m high, while the
other two - west of Watling Street bridge and Custom House Quay -
would rise to a height of 55m.

With some 2,000 juggernaut trucks expected to vanish from the quays
after the port tunnel opens later this year, Dublin City Council is
about to start work on a new framework plan for the river - and the
cable car proposal could become its most exciting element.

Chief planner Dick Gleeson and city architect Jim Barrett are
certainly enthusiastic about the plan, which they see as a dynamic way
of stitching the city together along the spine of its main river -
though, obviously, it still has to go through the planning process.

Mr Boland cites figures showing that Dublin had 5.8 million visitors
last year, with an average stay of 4½ days. But he says all of the
city's attractions are static, including the Guinness Storehouse,
through which 740,000 trooped up to its Gravity Bar.

One of the terminals would be located within the Guinness Brewery on
Victoria Quay, a short walk from Heuston Station; the other just west
of the planned Calatrava bridge, some 50m from the site of the
national conference centre at Spencer Dock.

Two new pedestrian bridges are being "thrown in free gratis", as Mr
Boland says. One would be located on the axis of Marlborough Street
and Hawkins Street, providing an obviously needed link, while the
other would span between Ormond Quay and Wood Quay.

Swiss manufacturer Doppelmayr Garaventa, which makes most of the
world's cable cars, are so enthusiastic about the project that they
are going to invest in it. Mr Boland is banking on the likelihood that
Dubliners and visitors to the city will be equally electrified.




(c) The Irish Times

[SeamusOG]

I find the whole thing very strange and frankly I can't see the point of it. But if permission were granted for this, it would be an indication that the city planners would be prepared to alter the riverscape for ever by installing towers which would enable four cable cars to carry about 100 people in total along the river. Well if they would be prepared to do that, why not go the whole hog and install a system like the Schwebebahn in Wuppertal, Germany.
http://www.u-bahnen-in-deutschland.de/wu/wuppertal-gallery.htm

[Paul Clerkin]

Frankly I think it's a terrible idea, visually ugly (using Smithfield's torches as a good example of McGarry NiEanaigh work is laughable) and I hope it doesn't go ahead.

[A-ha]

The cable car that goes out to Dursey Island in Cork (the only one in Ireland I believe) is used by both locals and tourists, but don't you think that one every 20 minutes is a bit in-frequent? It would make more sense to have twice as many cable cars capable of carrying ten people every 10 minutes, that way, people wouldn't have to wait very long on a cold and wet Irish day.

[Niall]

NO NO NO NO

Would clutter the quays, obscuring all architecture....... Will be poorly maintained and financially unviable

No No

Too much money now in the country no sense....

[kefu]

I also think if you go to this extraordinary amount of trouble, it should have some utilitarian aspect and have more than just two stops and two cars. Other cable car systems, for instance New York's Roosevelt Island system or Barcelona's, cater for both tourists and local residents.
It's quite easy to still charge high prices to non-residents (a la the boats in Venice) by having regular users apply for a travel card of some description. I've been on both of the cable car systems I mentioned above, and think part of their charm is that ordinary people can use them.
The people behind this have also gone to quite a bit of effort to ensure the pylons are at the most visually uninteresting parts of the quays, which I think is important.
And speaking of gimmicks, what ever happened to the plan to float a balloon above the Liffey. That seems to have sunk without a trace, and like this one, was being endorsed by Frank McDonald.
Anyway, in conclusion, I'd be in favour of the plan but I think the number of trams should be doubled or trebled and there should be at least one more stop.d

[notjim]

and the passangers will be able to look down and see the _spirit of the docklands_ also "reimagining the river in a creative and exciting way"

[Devin]

I was reading this yesterday and going ‘this is a joke, isn’t it?’ Later in the day I thought maybe I was imagining what I’d read – checked the paper again, but no it was true ….

I’ve nothing against imaginative ideas, and the Liffey does need imagination, but sorry I just think you couldn’t do this to a river running through the middle of a old city. Maybe in parts of the Docklands it would be good, but definitely not in the historic area.

[Paul Clerkin]

In your opinion is the suggested cable car system along the river Liffey in Dublin a pointless gimmick that we don't need or a good example or how imagination can make Dublin a better place to live?


Plan for cable car attraction on Liffey
The Irish Times

A private consortium is proposing to develop a cable car service along the Liffey Quays in Dublin, running between Heuston Station and Docklands. The cable cars would transport sightseers at heights approaching 80 metres (264ft) above the river from the Guinness Brewery near Heuston to a terminal located near the planned national conference centre at Spencer Dock. Aimed primarily at the tourism market, the cable cars would give people a birds-eye view of many of Dublin's landmarks, including the Custom House, the Four Courts, St James' Gate Brewery and the National Museum at Collins Barracks. Each of the four cable cars would have capacity for 25 people and the duration of a trip in either direction would be around 20 minutes.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2006/0204/158080939HM3NEWSSTORY.html

[PVC King]

Aren't these the guys who promised the rail spur for Shannon airport as a tool to get a huge retail development in Shannon before the spur evaporated?

[KerryBog2]

I had to look at my calendar to check that it was not April 1st. The big difference between the Roosevelt Island cable car and that proposed for the Liffey is that the former traverses the river and is primarily used by residents (cost is a subway token) and the latter is for tourists, will cost $15 and follow the river’s route. Why bother? Why not use boats? I though a boat service had started on the Liffey? Paris has its bateaux mouches, the East River has cruises, and for a while there was a river taxi service; that stopped due to lack of use, but that was due to a mixture of cost ($9 versus $3.50 for the East Side Shuttle or $1.5 for Subway) and only 2 stops (57th St. and 96th St.) which were too limiting. Looking at the roundy cablecar pods I can already hear it being called Dublin’s “pie in the sky.”
KB2

[AndrewP]

Surprised at Frank McDonald backing this awful idea. And does he describe everything he likes as 'sensational'?

[phil]

One word comes to mind: "Monorail".

[hutton]

One word comes to mind: "Monorail".

Anybody else ever see that Simpsons episode?

[SeamusOG]

It's hard to see the "lateral thinking" angle that Frank McDonald is going on about. The cable cars that I've seen have been used to ferry people across a chasm (e.g. Dursey Island was mentioned earlier on) or to carry people up a hill (e.g. somewhere like the Zugspitz in Germany or any ski lift you care to mention). In both of those types of case, the cable car is necessary or at the very least extremely useful.

How does building a totally unnecessary cable car which will only function as a tourist attraction constitute "lateral thinking":confused:

[phil]

How does building a totally unnecessary cable car which will only function as a tourist attraction constitute "lateral thinking":confused:

That is a good question. It seems that the new thing in the DCC is to talk about improving "East - West permeability" in the city centre. The cable car is meant to be part of this plan, but is probably the single worst idea (or at least up there in the top 5) of the last 10 years. What really bothers me about it is that it has no real practical function for the citizens of Dublin, but will be visible from all over the city. I am not against tourism, and understand its importance to urban economies, but to build something that will be so dominant on the skyline, yet of no great benefit to the common good is ridiculous.

[PVC King]

Personally I feel that a combination of a

'figure of eight luas'

1. The interconnector

1. Dedicated cycle lanes on the quays and Dame St

Would acheive more; having said that they are as works of design quite attractive

[Maskhadov]

U G L Y

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[POM]

I think somtimes we're too critical. We give out that there's no imagination ever being shown among Irish business and then when it is shown we all give out about it. Personally I don't think the cable car format as is earns acceptability but at least it is imagination and they shouldn't be attacked for that. It should be encouraged, but that doesn't mean the first idea is always the right one. Back to the drawing board with this one I'd say.

Also, how come the poll has 3 negative answer options and only 1 positive?

[GregF]

This looks bloody awful. What happened to the ballon idea at Temple Bar?

[GregF]

This looks bloody awful. What happened to the balloon idea at Temple Bar?