Arnotts

[geraghtyg]

Thanks a million for explaining all that Devin. All makes sense now. And I did need to see that pic from post 38 to get my bearings. To be honest, I never even new there used to be a street where the Ilac is now. Presumably this would have linked Dominick and Liffey Streets???

Anyway, regarding where I got the image from: I recorded the program from digital TV onto the hard drive of my DVD recorder, then copied it onto DVD, loaded up the dvd onto my PC and using my editing program, took a frame grab and posted it on here. Quality of picture and sound is excellent as the original film footage was restored. There are many fascinating scenes in this program of Moore St, Smithfield and surrounding areas. I actually have a good few other screen grabs saved to my PC as I have created DVD covers and images to print onto the DVDs themselves to make them look better as I intend to keep this program for archive purposes. I could post up more here if anyone is interested although I'm not sure what the story with doing that is, copyright wise.

Graham

[Devin]

Yeah, definitely! I often find myself watching old stuff on telly & going ‘it would be good to get access to that’. Like that Frankie Byrne documentary that was on RTE last night - there were some interesting views of O'Connell Street and the Quays in colour, showing all the buildings that have since been demolished & replaced at the west end of Bachelor's Walk.

The old series' of Hands are good as well. You get background scenes of Irish towns, and every building still has its sash windows - and they were only filmed in the '70s & '80s! (i.e. before PVC blight! )

[Devin]

.

I came across this interesting picture of Henry Street in the '70s (left); and the same view today (right) - Roches on the extreme right in both pictures. The gap just beyond Roches in the '70s pic would be the no-longer-existing Denmark Street already mentioned.

[geraghtyg]

Good to see Denmark St, well the beginning of it anyway. And I have to say that the street looks really nice with the palm trees and benches. Almost looks mediterranean until you look at the shopfronts, that is.
OK, well when I get a chance, I'll post up a few more frame grabs if I can find any shots of interest.

[GrahamH]

What a bizarre photograph! Out of interest, what the heck started that craze for palm trees in the 70s? Package holidays?!
No suburban house of the era is complete without one in the middle of the front lawn.

One interesting snippet of info about Little Denmark Street is that in 1926 2RN, Ireland's first broadcasting service (later Radio Éireann of course) was based at number 36! I wonder if that domed building has anything to do with it - certainly its height would have come in handy. It was only a temporary stint on Little Denmark St though, just till the GPO was ready to be occupied again in the late 20s post-1916.

Long forgotton streets are very sad things, especially when there's a 'little' in the name

[geraghtyg]

Funny you should mention the radio broadcasts from the GPO. Main lock on the door in my house is actually the original lock to the Radio Eireann studios or whatever they had back then. Fine big lock and fantastic looking key.

[GrahamH]

Really?! Got a pic? Yes there were proper studios in there by the time the GPO opened. It was refurbished again in the 50s, when shudder-inducing gloss painted partitions with bubbled glass went in to the office section. The place was falling down round their ears by the time Donnybrook beckoned.

[geraghtyg]

If you mean a pic of the studios, then no. Lock looks quite normal in the door - It has been in the door for a few decades now I reckon. If you want some pics of the lock and key, it could be arranged. If that is what you looking for pics of, that is.

Graham

[GrahamH]

Just the lock - if it's interesting like
What it's got to do with Arnotts now....

[Devin]

Out of interest, what the heck started that craze for palm trees in the 70s? Package holidays?!
No suburban house of the era is complete without one in the middle of the front lawn.

Lol! It was definitely the jetset influence, & popularity of programmes like Hawaii 5-0!

[Rory W]

Must have been all those "look up, it's Aer Lingus ads" still burned into the cerebral cortex of a few of us

[PVC King]

Ahhhhhhhhh I can't get the image of a contemporary to that time Aer Lingus air hostess uniform out of mind!!!!!!!!!

I saw on the news that the Arnotts masterplan was unveiled today there is as yet nothing on HKR's site and I hope that the architecture is of a good standard. In circulation terms I am very pleased that they have chosen to add to O'Connell St by creating a major retail zone on South Princes St which will add to the City it is felt and the idea of a Square is also great aqnd a quantum leap form the orginal idea to just carve a new street between Henry and Abbey St.

I hope the detailing is good on this as this would allow a breathing space for Liffey Street to be redeveloped with a replacement pedestrian route being provided.

I am looking forward to seeing some images.

[jdivision]

Ahhhhhhhhh I can't get the image of a contemporary to that time Aer Lingus air hostess uniform out of mind!!!!!!!!!

I saw on the news that the Arnotts masterplan was unveiled today there is as yet nothing on HKR's site and I hope that the architecture is of a good standard. In circulation terms I am very pleased that they have chosen to add to O'Connell St by creating a major retail zone on South Princes St which will add to the City it is felt and the idea of a Square is also great aqnd a quantum leap form the orginal idea to just carve a new street between Henry and Abbey St.

I hope the detailing is good on this as this would allow a breathing space for Liffey Street to be redeveloped with a replacement pedestrian route being provided.

I am looking forward to seeing some images.

Images are on new street for Dublin thread

[StephenC]

Those of you interested in this development might wish to have a look at the model on display in DCC at the moment. From what i can see the development invloves demolishing a whole section of the existing Arnotts store, not just the 1960s addition but the Edwardian section west of the tower. Also on the Abbey Street side Chapters book store also seems to have gone along with the remaining buildings cornering Upper Liffey Street including 'aul Hector Greys (its a sad day for Dublin). Some of the new linking street look very narrow, particularly the Abbey Street links. Im not sure they'll make such nice places. Also would like to see changes to the Pennys facade to fit in better with the GPO and Easons. One area thats not included (which I thought was) is the corner of Liffey Street and Henry Street. All the buildings at this corner are outside of the development area.

[Paul Clerkin]

Somebody want to photograph the model for some detail?

[C.H.]

Guys this is all very confusing. Can someone please clear this up for me and correct me if I'm wrong.

I gather it is safe to say that the tower existed some time before the 1960's curtain walling extension. Does anyone know what happened to it?

Also the illustration from the bag. Did this building ever exist?

[GrahamH]

As was noted on the other thread, it's not 100% clear, but it's nearly definite that this was built:



because:

1. The original interior cast iron columns extend into the 1960s part roughly to the depth of the tower.
2. The 1960s part is wider at the front that the back, to the depth of a tower.
3. Various photographs we’ve seen suggest the tower as being there.
4. A photograph in the IAA to the best of my knowledge clearly shows the western tower fully extant.
5. This map from 1936 depicts the tower



The store was extended in 1904, so it's possible the western pavilion wasn't built till then, perhaps when it was realised that the entire proposed scheme couldn't be built/funded.

If you're serious about researching C.H., go to the Irish Architectural Archive on Merrion Square for us, head straight for the photographs bookcase, look up Henry Street, and see if there's a 1930s-50s picture clearly showing the building with western pavilion. I'm nearly sure they have one.

[PVC King]

Top marks as always Mr Hickey

Any news on where the proposed redevelopment is at; last I heard the Management had this out to three development groups to appoint one in a JV

[jdivision]

[quote="PVC King"]Top marks as always Mr Hickey

Any news on where the proposed redevelopment is at]
It's been down to two for a while: Ballymore and a British company

[fergalr]

Forgive me...I may be coming late to the game here, but as regards the tower, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that it was taken down some time post-independence because it was seen as a piece of unnecessary, flippant Victorian embellishment.
I think it's in Pat Liddy's "Dublin; A Celebration".

[PVC King]

Centros Miller I think

Thanks for that JD

was a bit in the dark no SBP here unfortunately

[jdivision]

That's them. Was in sunday times first with an indo follow up. SBP haven't followed it too closely.

[GrahamH]

Oddly, given the enormous commercial implications of this scheme...

The tower you refer to Fergal is the central tower that was taken down in 1949, for no apparent reason other than it was deemed to be ugly, or at best unorthodox. It had survived 1916 and 1922. Presumably it was also at this time that the turrets were removed from the two side towers. And then about 15 years later the western tower disappeared completely with the construction of the 1960's curtain-walled extension, however it would appear that only the tower's facade was demolished, with its substructure including Victorian cast iron columns being retained behind part of the new facade, at ground floor level at least. Indeed it's possible this is the reason a curtain-walled solution was called into play with the Arnotts extension: to partially clad over the western tower. Though why/if this was done is anyone's guess...

Btw I recently tentatively ventured deep into the bowels of Arnotts, into the school uniform and baby needs section high up on the second floor in the Victorian block fronting onto Henry Street, and as hoped it's a hidden enclave of original features that survived the 80's and 90's remodellings, with cast iron columns puncturing up through the floor. The floor seems to line up neatly with the windows, but the low columns and capitals, some only at waist level, clearly suggest a much grander plan originally, perhaps with no floor divisions at all, like a double or triple height space over the main entrance behind the red brick facade. There's also a few simple arches that may or may not be original, clad over if I recall. It's all very make-do-and-mend, with the shop charmingly muddling around these curious relics of a bygone store - an increasingly rare phenomenon in Dublin today.

Of course many of the columns around part the central rotunda are also original, the mezzanine level only installed in the 1980s. That's why the columns are ridiculously short at that level. So the original store was at the very least a double height space in the red brick block.

[StephenC]

I see Arnotts have an application in for their shopfront (3269/09)

"PROTECTED STRUCTURE-The development will consist of the restoration of the ground floor shop front facade and entrance portico of the original Arnotts Building to its former style. The restoration work to the protected structure will consist of the following work. The removal of the existing canopy, flag poles, illuminated signage and existing glass shop windows on facade of department store fronting No. 11-15 Henry Street. The existing mezzanine floor plate will be cut back by 2 metres to re-create double height shop windows and to allow the re-establishment of original facade with reinstated pilasters. The installation of new entrance doors in lieu of existing shutters at main entrance flanked on both sides with new glazed entrance doors (1 set per side). The existing 8m high vertical illuminated external sign on Henry Street will be removed and replaced with a new 8m vertical illuminated external sign on brickwork panel at west end of no. 11-15 Henry Street facade; The proposed development to which this application relates is within a conservation area and the building is a Protected Structure."

[lauder]

I see Arnotts have an application in for their shopfront (3269/09)

"PROTECTED STRUCTURE-The development will consist of the restoration of the ground floor shop front facade and entrance portico of the original Arnotts Building to its former style. The restoration work to the protected structure will consist of the following work. The removal of the existing canopy, flag poles, illuminated signage and existing glass shop windows on facade of department store fronting No. 11-15 Henry Street. The existing mezzanine floor plate will be cut back by 2 metres to re-create double height shop windows and to allow the re-establishment of original facade with reinstated pilasters. The installation of new entrance doors in lieu of existing shutters at main entrance flanked on both sides with new glazed entrance doors (1 set per side). The existing 8m high vertical illuminated external sign on Henry Street will be removed and replaced with a new 8m vertical illuminated external sign on brickwork panel at west end of no. 11-15 Henry Street facade; The proposed development to which this application relates is within a conservation area and the building is a Protected Structure."

Good news. Would be interesting to see some drawings.