Wolfe tone park

Wolfe tone park

Postby LOB » Wed Nov 14, 2001 6:07 pm

This appears to be close to completion
having seen the competition winning scheme at the time, it is a major disappointment to see that the large inclined earth bank has been completely removed and instead we have a flat "lawn" with the recovered gravestones placed within it.
has the feel of yet another windswept open space/skate park
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Postby Jas » Wed Nov 14, 2001 6:18 pm

It has already been taken over by the skateboarders. I think the headstones in the lawn looks rather naff.
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Postby fergus » Wed Nov 14, 2001 9:31 pm

I personallly think its great that the skaters are there giving vibrance to the place I'm sure peter coady thought it would be used by them and too as well as the prams,parents and pensioners.pity that the council were too cheap to build it as designed though I just hope they dont come along and take notches out of all the concrete benches now to stop the skaters.
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Postby nono » Wed Nov 14, 2001 9:49 pm

a park should be for everyone, and everone should have a place in society, but to be fair, the presence of 'scaters' and 'goths' is very offputting for a large majority of people. has anybody been around curved street at night lately?
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Postby Jas » Wed Nov 14, 2001 11:34 pm

No fergus, they will not need to, you can already see from the Jervis the blocks that are damaged by the skaters witjh the edges all lopped off, and marked. Personally I'd run over a skateboarder on my bike given the chance.
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Postby GregF » Thu Nov 15, 2001 10:42 am

A point about skaters...... the sculpture at Wood Quay suffered the same fate too ....it's base all chipped and broken. Maybe an outdoor skating-drome could be built in a secluded part of the inner city....I say 'secluded' when you consider that they built a handball alley beside one of the city's main courthouses in Green Street ....how naff.
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Postby LOB » Thu Nov 15, 2001 12:30 pm

I have to agree with Jas and gregf
its just vandalism. I cant imagine many pensioners or people with prams being inclined to use the park as it is, if there are skaters about.
maybe the previous park wasn't so bad after all!!!
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Postby quirkey » Thu Nov 15, 2001 12:34 pm

And they still lock up that handball alley so that no-one can use it !

I actually think that the opposite might be the true solution ..... provide for and encourage these things in the most public of places so that their use is encouraged and forms a means of entertainment for passers by.
Imagine a rollerblading competition or game of basketball or whatever being held somewhere like wolfe tone park on a sunny
afternoon... the huge crowd that would gather around such an event.....
then you'd have a demand for ice-cream/hot-dog stalls etc etc a positive atmosphere can only but prevail.
If these things are provided in so called seccluded areas (as per usual) then they wont gather crowds, only smaller groups of people carrying out truly unsociable activities....
Maybe we need to re-evaluate what is UNSOCIABLE activity is in the first place.

At what point does a few people just having positive and harmless fun turn into socially unacceptable negative behaviour ?
As for everything else in the universe ......it depends on the CONTEXT

[This message has been edited by quirkey (edited 15 November 2001).]
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Postby StephenC » Thu Nov 15, 2001 2:26 pm

Personally, I think this is just the most boring and bland park I've ever seen.
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Postby quirkey » Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:31 am

Yeah Its more like a market square than a park now with so much hard surfacing in place.
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Postby PaulC » Fri Nov 16, 2001 3:25 pm

I think it looks pleasant - I think given that it is a small space, in a heavily urbanised area - there is a need for quite a bit of paving. A lot of grass wouldnt work well in a location like this. It looks contemporary and is open (ie no railings locking it away). Also I dont think the presence of skateboarders is necessarily a bad thing. Diversity is what makes a city interesting.
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Postby LOB » Fri Nov 16, 2001 4:47 pm

Not where it results in damage!
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Postby fergus » Fri Nov 16, 2001 5:46 pm

I'm sorry LOB and whoever I think that blaming skaters is not exactly positive the park is intended for everyone but to be honnest the presence of skaters I see as positive its an outdoor sport in which people who participate are constantly questioning their surruonds and looking at it in a different way to most but the point is they are looking more than most.I also think a create a vibrancy in the area I don't think the intention is to scare people or annoy or vandalise the structures in fact it would be better for the skaters if the seat edges remained pristine and it is a pitty that they are getting dammaged but is it maybe just al lack of foresight that it would be used in this way and would get worn in this way-I think this anti-skaters or goths or energetic people in wheelchairs or whoever or whatever attitude is a little shortsighted and not exactly the kind of linear thinking about the problem I see as never creating a better place.

[This message has been edited by fergus (edited 16 November 2001).]
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Postby Jas » Fri Nov 16, 2001 6:26 pm

In fairness any idiot could see this space being taken over by the skateboarders. It looks like it was designed for them, but they will intimidate other people away. The same way that people now avoid the Curved Street if they can to avoid the teenage goths and their tshirts commemorating Cobain (who was probably dead when they were 2)

It may be traditional but the best thing for a park is grass... it regenerates itself and will never look as bad as cheap granite slabs covered in black chewing gum stains.
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Postby cajual » Mon Nov 19, 2001 8:15 pm

surely if a public space is being designed which may attract skaters yhen the materials and design of the elements should be resistant to whatever it is subjected to- for example providing steel copings on granite blocks, good for wear and good for skateboarding.
The designer has as much responsibility for the markings as the skateboarders- they should predict and avoid the wear and tear associated with normal city life, which includes skateboarding, like it or not. architects seem to get very pissed off when someone uses THEIR building for a use which they haven't foreseen, or just didn't bother considering when designing it- in the case of a public space, the skateboarders have as much right to use it as the pram pusher or granny.
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Postby quirkey » Mon Nov 19, 2001 8:25 pm

here here !!!
Equality, democracy, etc thats just what a city and all socieies should be about !!
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Postby LOB » Tue Nov 20, 2001 11:29 am

by extension
would someone who was shopping in the Jervis centre have the right to park their car there?
By the logic expressed above-they have as much right to use the space as anyone else
It is a matter of what is acceptable-In my opinion, due to damage caused by it,scateboarding is not.
You may ask the question, should the corporation provide a venue for skateboarders? But it could be argued that it has greater priorities like regenerating the city centre.
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Postby doozer » Tue Nov 20, 2001 12:30 pm

On rather a tangent, I was under the impression that Coady Architects had surrenderd responsibility for executing the project to the OPW- in which case it is no surprise that the more sutble aspects of the design (like the slope,which I would have thought was intrinsic to its faithful completion) have been ommitted. Perhaps for cost reasons?
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Postby fergus » Tue Nov 20, 2001 12:59 pm

I see skating,cycling people on pogo-sticks whatever as a positive thing-people outside enjoying and using the place they live in a positive way.I'd be more concerned about a place that is "Safe" but boring such as the park behind the civic offices or that it could become full of junkies or whatever-the only place I've ever seen a junkie actually shooting up was under the stairs on the way into the ifc off the meeting house square but then again that too has skaters in it sometimes but not when its busy and I think the same could well happen in wolftone pk.as well -if people are sitting on the seats and milling around all over the place then it is probable that it won't be used for skating except at night or when its quiet,and as for the dammage wel I personally think it should have been foreseen that this would happen and anyway if the edges do crumble then the seats won't be any use to the skaters anymore anyway.But on the point of a skatepark being a waste of money and the corpo having "greater priorities such as regenerating the city centre" well then if they did build a skate-park wouldn't that get rid of all the things that get under the skin of so many contribuiters here about parts of the city centre at the moment,immagine-curved streetfree of teenie-goths (well at least when ever there would be nothing going on in the temple bar music centre) no skaters to be seen except at the skate park in fact probably less strange looking people and all those non-conformists who "litter" our streets with diversity instead we could build a big skate park somewhere people would never go and lock em all up there -the odd time passing to knock some of them down on our bikes!

[This message has been edited by fergus (edited 20 November 2001).]
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Postby quirkey » Tue Nov 20, 2001 1:27 pm

knowing some of the people contributing to all these forums here i've come to notice of those few, the younger ones (particularly student members) somehow tend to have a more positive and open minded, maybe accepting veiw of a more diverse and interactive city / society.
Why is that ??
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Postby LOB » Tue Nov 20, 2001 1:28 pm

"curved streetfree of teenie-goths well at least when ever there would be nothing going on in the temple bar music centre and no skaters to be seen except at the skate park in fact probably less strange looking people and all those non-conformists who "litter" our streets with diversity instead we could build a big skate park somewhere people would never go and lock em all up there the odd time passing to knock some of them down on our bikes!"

-First of all, I don't care what people do so long as it doesn't result in damage/injury to property/other people. That remains my point.
-I'm all for diversity
-I would hardly call goths and skateboarders non-conformists
-On the issue of designers anticipating activities like this-we should not allow the thoughtless vandalism of a few to determine the design of our public spaces.
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Postby iuxta » Wed Nov 21, 2001 10:13 am

The big problem with giving permission for public spaces to be used for sports such as skateboarding is that the owner then assumes a level of responsibility for the safety of those users and having seen the skaters falling over the staps at the Central Bank as they practice new moves, i imagine the corporation would not be eager to to take on a potential liability nightmare like this.
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Postby pvdz » Fri Nov 23, 2001 2:38 pm

LOB the "few" you talk about would probably be the predominant users of the park, so instead of sticking ones head in the sand would an intelligent designer not consider this and create a park which can be used by all! And how can you be for diversity when you want these skateboarders to be segregated to an isolated part of the inner city when they are real members of the community and therefore must be embraced? They exsist, deal with it. Also you mentioned that the regeneration of the city being a priority for the corp. is bringing new people to a formerly dead area not considered regeneration?
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Postby MG » Fri Nov 23, 2001 2:56 pm

I think calling that park a dead area is wrong. Before the corpo closed it, it was always busy, people sitting around, and in the summers you couldnt see the grass for people.
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Postby LOB » Fri Nov 23, 2001 5:06 pm

PVDZ
The "few" I mentioned were those whose activities caused damage (as seen at the base of the sculpture at the civic offices)
if there was no damage, then I would'nt have an issue with it.Are you denying the destruction occurs?
"And how can you be for diversity when you want these skateboarders to be segregated to an isolated part of the inner city when they are real members of the community and therefore must be embraced? They exsist, deal with it."

Sorry pvdz, If you check you will find that was gregf.

"Also you mentioned that the regeneration of the city being a priority for the corp. is bringing new people to a formerly dead area not considered regeneration?"

I'm with MG on this one
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