South Great George's Street

Re: South Great George's Street

Postby hutton » Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:43 am

It´ll be worth keeping an eye out so that they put the brass plaque back on Dunlops factory - it being the worlds first pneumatic tyre factory & all that. V. important it goes back up - Im all too tyred when vernacular history simply disappears. Up with the plague of plaques! :D
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby ctesiphon » Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:36 pm

Agreed, hutton. Where social history is concerned, which is not always immediately apparent from the physical fabric of a building, it is important to tread softly. ( :o I'll get my coat...)
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby jdivision » Tue Oct 25, 2005 6:34 pm

The site is owned by Dunnes Stores and Cassidy's Shoes to the best of my knowledge. Dunnes Stores took a short term lease on Beaux Lane House (owned by Royal College Of Surgeons) to allow the redevelopment take place. I like it but am sceptical of the windows throughout. I expect a certain amount of the offices will be let. It's great this redevelopment is finally up and running. Dunnes owned so much property in this area that they had not been utilising to its full potential but now seem to have reversed that policy at long last - see the supermarket on the other side of the street and the sandwich bar behind it. They're also planning to bring the upper floor of the George's Street supermarket back into use - I think either as a restaurant or cafe. Will they close the supermarket in St Stephen's Green after they move back in to the new hq? Sounds like replication by having drapery and food on one street and an anchor store offering both within five minutes walk of each other.
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby urbanisto » Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:41 pm

It would seem logical to cut down on the number of stores....especially as rent in the St Stephens Green Centre must be quite high. But its a major store in the SSGC and I wouldnt be surprised if they felt that the area could take stores at both locations. There's a lot of new retail space coming on line in this area (South Anne Street, South Kings Street, change of use on South William Street). Good to see.

Back to an earlier point about the new pedestrain element abutting a protected stucture. It seems the wall is getting a curved frame which should tie the developments into each other.
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby hutton » Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:53 pm

ctesiphon wrote:Agreed, hutton. Where social history is concerned, which is not always immediately apparent from the physical fabric of a building, it is important to tread softly. ( :o I'll get my coat...)


Yeah- get yer coat, take yer hat and all the rest of it - such puns wheely bore me :p


[quote="jdivision"]Dunnes owned so much property in this area that they had not been utilising to its full potential[quote/]

No offence jdiv but thats an understatement if ever.Often the term 'speculators' is associated with the word 'faceless' -but Georges St is certainly not that. (BTW Re the Dunnes currently open on G st, has anybody else noticed the lack of fresh fruit and veg therin, or is it just me? :confused: )

What thoughts anybody on the idea that the wonderful gothic brick block from Fade St to Exchequer St needs a plan to deliver on its own particular specific conservation/ usage needs?
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby t.scott » Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:01 pm

what ever happend to the plan to tear down and rebuild the block towards the north end of south great georges st????
i like the look of what dunnes are doing but i seem to recall a proposal to tear down the building further north which was originally designed for an industrial estate in england!!?!! if that gets built and along with the dunnes work it will have a great effect, at least physically, on the street...
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby GrahamH » Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:02 am

Yes it really ought to boost things on this side of the street, and the magnificent Victorian across the road on the junction with Stephen St is hopefully due a new lease of life soon too considering its recent sale.
One of the finest Victorian commercial red bricks in the city I think with that deep-modelled facade - much of it is derelict at present:

Image


hutton wrote:
What thoughts anybody on the idea that the wonderful gothic brick block from Fade St to Exchequer St needs a plan to deliver on its own particular specific conservation/ usage needs?


Was drooling over it only this morning :), especially the virtually ignored network of planned terraces to the rear. Some of them need ghaslty paint stripped off the brickwork of the upper floors, and the odd shopfront could do with renewal. Miraculously all the windows seem to be intact - in fact the only ones that were replaced if I remember correctly is three or six windows above Dunnes on the George's St facade. Otherwise all of the tens and tens of originals in the Markets block and ancillary terraces are intact!

The chimneys of the terrace to Drury St are a fine feature in particular. A decent floodlighting job of the George's St facade wouldn't go amiss - it could look spectacular.
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby ctesiphon » Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:53 am

In the last 10-15 years, the Market Arcade has really come back to life. There was a student conservation study carried out in around 1989 (in UCD Richview library) that showed considerably more dereliction than today. Agreed, it's a bit shabby, but it is a living building complex that really adds vibrancy to this part of town, not least the mix of shops, stalls and cafes. I'd be worried that any major conservation project might push up rents on the units, forcing out the existing traders and altering fundamentally the character of the place. It changed hands a few years back and the new owner/s have done a good job of maintaining or introducing just the right mix, both inside and outside. In fact, I'm not sure whether the external units are separately owner or are part of the whole. Anyone know? Also, I'm intrigued by the basement- apparently it's huge, but I've never seen it (aside from the individual basements of some units- Road Records, a couple of the cafes, one of the hairdressers).
There's a picture of the interior of the arcade from the 1950s or so in the cafe at the George's St end (Simon's Place) showing cars parked inside, and the entrance to the Market Bar retains shopfronts in the 'lobby' area (unsure if they're original though). If it was to change, I'd love to see an English Market style daily food market, i.e. butchers, fishmongers etc., rather than a fancypants food emporium. It's something this city sorely needs. But I'd rather it stayed as it is for now, with maybe minimal running repairs, particularly as the DCC project for the old fruit and veg markets on the northside will hopefully provide such a food market as you see in Barcelona and elsewhere. Then hutton could have all the fresh fruit and veg he needs!

PS One criticism of the market- a few years ago they took out the old floor of what seemed like sandstone flagstones (doubtful, but my memory's hazy) and replaced it with the current tiled surface. Not only does it look too new, it's lethal when it rains.
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:03 am

Worth a wander is down under the arcade in the carpark accessible from Drury Street

Re the shopfronts in entrance to market bar, afaik, originally there was a second "mall" intersecting with the first one and running out through the Dunnes onto Wicklow Street
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby ctesiphon » Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:23 am

Interesting point- I could well believe it. The little olive/fudge/lentil stall on the inner north side of the arcade is set back from the line of the main arcade passage. I presume this was the other arm and was truncated in later years.
Now I'm off to find someone with a car so I can explore the basement. Cheers for that.
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby jimg » Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:37 am

Worth a wander is down under the arcade in the carpark accessible from Drury Street

Definitely. It's like being in a dungeon or something with the arched ceiling. All the stone/bricks have gone completely black. Compared to the purely functional design of modern car parks, it's wonderful. I've only been
there in the evening; I heard they have a valet (or whatever it's called - a guy who parks and retrieves your car) service during the day.
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:12 pm

Walk down for a look - its what I did.
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby Frank Taylor » Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:44 pm

It was used for a rave a few years ago.
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby Devin » Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:18 pm

Image . . Image

Image

Some more pictures of the Dunnes site pre-redevelopment to augment ctesiphon’s view.

One of the demolished facades on George’s Street had an extraordinary cracking pattern in the plaster (top right pic), like a dried lakebed. At first glance you thought it was part of the finish.
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby urbanisto » Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:43 am

I understand a planning application has been lodged for the site opposite (as mentioned above) involving facade retention and demolision and reconstruction to the rear.
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby GrahamH » Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:00 am

This building Stephen?

Image


If anyone's walking through the Castle grounds, be warned - the unassuming pedestrian is likely to experience heart failure upon turning into the Dubhlinn Gardens:

Image

:eek:

Image

Image

Frightening how quickly these went up - not quite sure what to make of it all. Not so much the impact on the Coach House as it is little more than a sham anyway, but the stone cladding of the new buildings looks rather vulgar - like the tiling of one of these crass four star hotels in the news at the minute, or the flooring of a flash shopping centre.

Wonder would Victoria be satistifed with the view from her bedroom window this time round? ;)
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby BTH » Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:24 am

Wow, that's pretty shocking alright - but on the other hand it could have been a whole lot worse! It'll be interesting to see how those balcony things along the top work out (at the moment it sort of looks like a take on the "battlement" idea), but otherwise it seems to be of at least reasonable quality - much like the rest of the scheme. Are these apartments or offices?
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby alpha » Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:03 pm

typed in error.
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby alpha » Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:04 pm

i am shocked myself. one can picture the newer building saying "move out of the way" to the older one.
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby PVC King » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:24 pm

I think that such a high proportion of tinted glazing was ill considered in such close proximity to a stone structure and given that what you see is in fact lower than what was proposed it is actually better than it might have been. It would be interesting to compare how far the building line moved towards the stone structure in this development. Does anyone have any archive photos?

In relation to the retail element I am a little disappointed by Dunnes use of the window displays and general shop fitout; they have a lot to learn from habitat; I am however glad that they will occupy their City HQ as opposed to their propsed edge-city move.
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby OC » Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:02 am

I have no photos, but the corner of the new dunnes building on Georges st/Stephen st is starting to look very well now with the hoarding down.
The new retail areas on georges st and stephen st on the ground floor, should provide that part of the street with some well needed new life.
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby GrahamH » Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:54 pm

Here is the new corner as nearing completion:

Image

Most impressive, if the left-hand facade rather flimsy looking in comparison. Still, its thin, suspended appearace when viewing the sweep as a whole is elegant.
The acknowledgement of the Victorian's storeys and parapet with graceful curved floors integrates the two quite well.

Image

Very striking forms created - I think this is a good example of where the use of expansive glazing is not a lazy choice, as is increasingly the case of late.

When one compares this comparitively minor scheme with the prominent site beside City Hall, it paints even more starkly the leaden, stodgy, cumbersome monolith that crucial site has been dealt.
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby Devin » Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:08 pm

Yes, and no sneaky increases in height here from the private sector!
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby Paul Clerkin » Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:09 pm

That is really nice - who are the architects? pity about the shopfront on the victorian though
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Re: South Great George's Street

Postby Devin » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:31 am

Gibney & Partners.
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