Liberty Hall redevelopment

Should Liberty Hall Be Listed?

Yes
168
46%
No
198
54%
 
Total votes : 366

Re: Liberty Hall

Postby J. Seerski » Sun Aug 21, 2005 11:21 pm

'Dublin needs all the tall buildings it can gat' - eh, maybe so, but in the right context an location - with that mentality - tall at any cost - we would not have the georgian city we have today!!!
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby paul lite » Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:56 am

Sorry. Don't get me wrong. I am not saying tall at any cost. I really do agree with proper context/location. I am simply saying that we should have some skyscrapers as part of Dublin and of course in the right location. We should also speed up the process of going to construction. I am not for skyscrapers everywhere and all over the place. As for Liberty Hall, I think it would be a shame to remove this building as it has been part of the skyline for 40 years. Replacing it with a lowrise building would dramatically change that area. If they knock Liberty Hall and build a nice efficient building in it's place to the same height I'll be happy. Something clean and fresh there would be nice. Even a clean up of the existing Liberty Hall. I know people say it impacts on the Custom House but I think our Loop Line Bridge is to blame there. ;)
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby asdasd » Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:01 am

I'd prefer all tall buildings to be to the East of the loop line bridge.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby paul lite » Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:05 am

The spot I'd like to see most of them go up in would be near Dublin Port and along the coast.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby dave123 » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:21 pm

i'd Like to see a building around 20 storeys , which is an average skyscraper in 'irish terms" and i like the new liberty hall to match the Georges quay building too. its stupid to build a low rise building on the site , as there is plenty of high desity in that area , not to mention all the artriel routes, land values, public transport and the new tara st project (if that ever gets started)
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby alpha » Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:49 pm

i remember tara street being approved years ago and i must say i like the look of the plans. i also wish that they'd speed things up there and go to construction. it is taking a long time to start erection work on tara street. i just hope that tara street doesn't slip through the net like the southbank tower did.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby Paul Clerkin » Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:33 pm

As far as I am aware, Tara Street will not be going ahead in the foreseable future as CIE has lost the nerve to close the station to built ontop of it.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby PVC King » Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:05 pm

The recent Dart Closures would have been the perfect opportunity, something tells me that the commuter is a little weary of closures at this point and Tara St would be the first weekday closures I can ever remember. All services terminating in Connolly and Pearse would make life very difficult for those living and working in suburbs on opposing sides of the city and one really has to wonder would the congestion costs significantly outweigh the capital gain.

A complete redesign leaving the station intact but 100% coverage away from the station with a public open space (interlinked deck) on top of the station and a cantelevered section over the station could be kind of funky.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby alpha » Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:07 pm

ah, that's a pitty. i quite like the proposal that was approved. knocking hawkin's house would also have made tara street look extra nice.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby GrahamH » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:16 am

And the recent 'revamp' of the station pretty much hammers the nail in the coffin it would seem.
Can't say I'm not pleased - the Tara St proposal, though architecturally 'worthy' as I recall, would have been yet another mid-rise pile adding insult to injury to the low-rise nature of the city core. Matt Talbot is the line as far as I'm concerned, it ought not to be breached for anything!

See Siptu's PR wheels were in full motion today, what with that piece in the Times and RTÉ's 'and finally' (well second last) report on the Nine. The options are pretty much as Crestfield outlined above.
I'm guessing they won't want to move so it'll be a toss-up between refurbishment and rebuild...
A decision is due in the autumn.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby Devin » Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:44 am

Graham Hickey wrote:Matt Talbot is the line as far as I'm concerned, it ought not to be breached for anything!
Definitely. And even at that, you need a buffer zone for the Custom House.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby GregF » Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:43 am

Liberty Hall should be refurbished. It is a well known anchor landmark. If it is to be knocked down it will add to the fact of Dublin becoming a city of transient architecture. Here today, gone tomorrow, nothing of value. A great city always has a permanant stock of buildings accumulated over time which add to its identity.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby Gaudi » Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:04 pm

Knock it down (and make it fall on the VHI building). Then rebuild and move the Abbey into new Theatre/Office building. Might save Georges Dock from destruction. :)
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby dc3 » Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:23 pm

The tower footprint is very small, and as others have correctly said, the central service core makes for very little useful space on each of the floors. Likewise the glazing made the rooms initially very hot.

I could see, barely, the logic of keeping part of the site for the meeting hall when the original tower was built.
Mass meetings (usually of striking busworkers), if I recall correctly had to be held somewhere back then but what, exactly, is the point of keeping the hall now. A non performing asset?

I understand the hall was only recently refurbished, which makes a hard decision about redeveloping it unlikely.

Any sign of the "Helga" in the Custom House Docks?
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby Paul Clerkin » Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:30 pm

Would announcing their review be a bit of a kiteflying exercise to see what developers come knocking with offers?
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby Sue » Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:32 pm

I would think so Paul. They're testing the market.
They're also testing the internal market, to see if the workers they're supposed to be representing would revolt if Siptu sold Liberty Hall for 30 pieces of silver. Or the Marxist equivalent thereof.
(They should give the proceeds of the sale to Joe Higgins, and the other working class heroes who exposed the Gama scandal while Siptu looked the other way)
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby crestfield » Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:57 pm

I believe that knocking the building would be a big mistake for SIPTU as they presently occupy one of the most disingtive landmark buildings in the county not to mention the associations with Connolly, Larkin and the ICA.

From what I have been told by a SIPTU offical, Liberty Hall is a protected structure (I stand corrected if this is untrue). If it isnt it should be, as in historical terms, not architectural, it is a symbol of the first era of confidance in the new Irish state. Busaras may take the honour of being the first building in the city centre to built in the international style but Liberty is by far more recognisible (even if it isnt a good example). That is why reclading would surfice.

Personnally I dont think it impacts negitivly on the Custom House, as Beresford Place allows a enough space for the CH to hold its own. Liberty isnt awarked in shape nor incredibly wide. Looking down river at the CH the hall dosnt effect it at all. To demolish this building is to destroy a symbol of the birth of modern Ireland, when Sean Lemass and T.K. Witaker draged us into the 60s.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby GrahamH » Thu Aug 25, 2005 6:32 pm

Agreed that it little affects the Custom House from the west, but from the east it really does look ridiculous I think.
I'd like to see renderings of the city and Custom House without it next door to make any sort of judgement on its absence.
It's difficult nowdays to genuinely despise this view all the same - in 1965 it was offensive, in 2005 it's more humourous :)

Overall though yes, it is an iconic structure on a number of levels, and is not what most people could describe as an 'ugly' building. Certainly I've always liked it, particularly when viewed from the west rising up over the quays, marking the bend in the river and reflecting the late afternoon sun, often dazzlingly lit while dark clouds loom behind. And the roof is still as distinctive as ever, even if it is a contrivance of sorts.
The notion of knocking it purely for a 'better' building is simply detestable.

A present crestfield it is not a protected structure.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby electrolyte » Sat Aug 27, 2005 10:59 pm

Right.....

Let them knock it down (Please let them knock it down!) However, i will be the first person to admit that one of my favourite images of Dublin is looking towards the Customs House from the Halfpenny Bridge...its nice..Liberty Hall dominance (?) included....but it could be a whole lot better. Now they have the opportunity...

So, they need to get rid of it but replace it with something stunning. The same height, or taller, that compliments the forementioned image that hopefully will sometime soon in the future include a fantastic structure over Tara Street too. Im thinking along the lines of looking at St.Pauls in London from the Southbank, with the Swiss RE and Tower 42 in sight also....great! Old and modern, creating a fantastic and instantly recognisable view...

The mistake with Liberty Hall is that it looks like something from the 60's...there are many towers around the world (if you could call LH a tower) that were built in the 60's, but dont necessarily look like a building of the 60's. It doesnt have to be ahead of its time....but it needs to be impressively transcient, retaining modernity whatever its age.. We dont want kids in 30 years time to say "that looks like it was built in the 00's"...we want them to say "wow, that looks awesome"....oblivious to its age cause its not apparent.

Cool.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby electrolyte » Sat Aug 27, 2005 11:03 pm

Oh and incorporate the wavy roof design somewhere in the new design. I think the roof is the only part people kinda like....so use that as its "branding" almost....Keep the "Liberty Hall" brand going....just update and impress....

Cheers
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby GrahamH » Mon Aug 29, 2005 6:55 pm

Is not that the equivalant of knocking a Georgian townhouse and retaining the doorcase in the new structure?!

The very appeal of Liberty Hall (well what appeal it has) is that it DOES look of its age - it looks like a 1960s 'progressive' structure, the tallest building ever to have been built in the State and an icon of its age.
Under no circumstances should it be demolished to make way for a 'timeless' glazed cylinder; if the building has any worth at all it is this very 'heritage value' that makes it stand out from the crowd and forces one to think twice about a Dublin without it.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby ConK » Tue Aug 30, 2005 11:11 am

I know it is daft but it would be cool to see the origninal Liberty Hall rebuilt. .. . ..
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby Rory W » Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:14 pm

ConK wrote:I know it is daft but it would be cool to see the origninal Liberty Hall rebuilt. .. . ..


A two storey building on that site - er no
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby alpha » Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:32 pm

i agree. we don't need another box. a 2 storey building on that site, even a 6 storey building would be a disaster. dublin would look completely different. libertty hall is one of dublin's defining buildings. i think we should keep anything that goes on that site tall. liberty hall has been part of dublin for 40 years or so and that is a long time. i am very use to it as it has been around for all of my life.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby linda » Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:11 pm

Agreed. Please don't let them knock Liberty Hall. I bet you anything they will knock it though. Knocking Liberty Hall would be like knocking the Empire State. Empire State is a defining building of New York just like Liberty Hall is a defining building of Dublin. Although Empire State is way better. They should treat Liberty Hall as they are treating Cork County Hall. It has been around for a long time yes and needs to continue to be around. I like Liberty Hall.
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