Liberty Hall redevelopment

Should Liberty Hall Be Listed?

Yes
168
46%
No
198
54%
 
Total votes : 366

Liberty Hall redevelopment

Postby crestfield » Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:52 pm

At present, SIPTU is in consultation with its members regarding the unions headquaters. 3 options have been put forward.

Option 1: Refitting the existing building

A) Minimum refit taking two years and temporary closure. Existing electrical and heating services and external cladding left in situ.

B) Major refit invoving closure for 4 years, reclading, seperating the arts venue and a new modern design on open plan guidelines.

C) Retaining Head Office and the arts venue. This would invovle the the adition of a second lift shaft for the top 10 floors which would be sold. The bottom five would contain head office and the curtain wall would be reclad. A new office to house the other Dublin personnal and SIPTU College would have to found.

Option 2: Maintain a presence by way of the arts venue.

D) A new land mark building already built, to house the Dublin premises and SIPTU College. Retain the theatre in the basement of Liberty Hall as presence at the site.
.
E) Move the offices to West Dublin and build and design from scratch and retain the theatre and sell all other areas inculding Liberty Hall itself.

F) Aquire a site in the Dublin Docklands on the water front incorperating all SIPTU offices and college in Dublin and retain the theatre.

Option 3: A new Liberty Hall

G) Redevelop the site and have aditional floor space to rent, to off set the cost. A new theatre and public area would be incorperated and relocation of staff for up to 4 years .
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby StephenC » Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:06 pm

Where did you hear this from crestfield. And what do you think is the likeliest outcome.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby crestfield » Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:18 pm

A booklet has become availible, perhaps you might get a copy at Liberty Hall. I think that A and B are unliklely given the booklet emphasis on the cost and the fact that the building's present limitations would still remain.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby ihateawake » Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:04 pm

it would be really depressing if they knocked liberty hall, its one of the defining buildings of dublin, it looks really well and in my opinion, dublin can use all the highrise it gets. crest do you know if they redevloped, whether its replacement would be high rise? presumably it would as it is a small site.


Image
excuse the slightly unprofessional editing :D
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby Paul Clerkin » Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:08 pm

Even though I have a sneaking liking for Liberty Hall, I do like the "without" image. I would imagine that they will just sell up and move and leave the headaches to some developer. Having been up in the tower, it is incredibly pokey inside.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby sw101 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:54 pm

Paul Clerkin wrote:Even though I have a sneaking liking for Liberty Hall, I do like the "without" image. I would imagine that they will just sell up and move and leave the headaches to some developer. Having been up in the tower, it is incredibly pokey inside.


i went to one of the top floors to visit some enforcement office, the majority of the space available seems to be used up by cores and corridors.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby Sue » Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:19 pm

Yes, it's a mess inside. Amazing how little fits into it
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby J. Seerski » Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:28 pm

:) How do you attach photos on this?


I always wanted todo this...
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby sw101 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:44 pm

type in [img]then%20paste%20in%20the%20url%20of%20the%20image,%20it%20should%20be%20something%20like%20http://www.kfjefdvk.com/skfjv.jpg,%20then%20close%20it%20with[/img]
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby Morlan » Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:28 am

Thought I might root out someof my old Photoshop jobs... what could have been built if developers had their way.

Image

Image

:)
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby Niall » Sat Jul 30, 2005 12:04 pm

God, that looks awful!!! I wouldn't mind Liberty Hall and that monstrosity, O'Connell Bridge House both coming down. High rise should be concentrated at Heuston and in the Docklands.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby GrahamH » Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:17 pm

Great images as always Morlan - Liberty Hall looks much more Japanesey there :)

Must also admit to a strange liking for Liberty Hall - though only because of how iconic it is at this stage, and how it's still the city's tallest building and is the original and best (or worst).

Paradoxically, the utterly ridiculous views of it next to the Custom House are also quite appealing - they have become intrinsically linked, from cartoon mock-ups of the city in adverts, to postcards, to documentaries, to simply familar views walking along the quays - they've grown into each other.

50/50 for knocking it.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby ihateawake » Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:55 am

beautiful! excellent, i wish they had their way :( dublin needs to grow taller, high rise mixed with the old style building is uniqe and looks really nice, aesthetics aside, dublin really needs high density planning to solve alot of problems - namely congestion, commuting times and sprawl. Now that the docklands oppertunity has been wasted, are there any other sites in the innnercity suitable for a high rise cluster?

really nice pics btw
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby AndrewP » Sun Jul 31, 2005 12:10 pm

We've been looking at Liberty Hall/ O'Connell Bridge House for so long now I think their complete absence would always look like gap in the skyline, at least until the next generation grows up.
Personally, I like the bookending effect they have on the view east and without them, the city would peter out very unimpressively into the sea. But I think they are the worst 1960s tat they should both be knocked and replaced with well-designed blocks at least as tall.
Better still would have been to have a high rise cluster down the docks - a lost opportunity indeed.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby aj » Mon Aug 01, 2005 12:51 am

it great news that something is going to happen with liberty hall maybee if teh redevelopment is done well it will have a knock on effect for the rest of eden quay
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby J. Seerski » Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:18 pm

Knock the damned thing!

If the entire block including the Liberty Hall Theatre were knocked, they could potentially get back the floorspace lost from its demolition and replacement with a six-storey block. The present site is a dreadfully inefficient use of land - the liberty Theatre having only two storeys at present. The building will be missed just like the huge gas tower at sir john rogerson's quay, but then again.... maybe not....The Customs House is adversely affected by Liberty Hall's proximity. Compared to losses such as the Metropole and Pillar and the Fitzwilliam Street Terrace, Liberty Hall would be insignificant.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby aj » Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:07 am

given the height.. i suppose if it was to be knocked down something equally tall would be built... as far as obscuring the custom house i think the loop line bridge is the biggest offender and needs to be tackled
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby GrahamH » Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:44 am

Surely from an architectural perspective the whole point of even considering the knocking of Liberty Hall would be to restore the skyline of the area and reassert the dominance of the Custom House on the riverscape?

Any desire for the retention of Liberty Hall is surely just a deep-rooted fondness for the building as an icon of 1960s modernisation with most people rather than an architectural one?!
Knocking the State's relatively inoffensive first 'skyscaper' only to replace it with another tall building right next to one of Europe's most significant neoclassical structures would be sheer lunacy.

If it goes it goes.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby PVC King » Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:22 am

If it goes what replaces will be taller because its floors are so small from floor to ceiling due to the absence of raised access floors and deeply suspended ceilings etc. Georges Quay is 5 storeys lower but yet is only 3m lower in overall height.

I say knock it and build a 90 storey version on Bond Road keeping the exact proportions so that it looks the same size from O'Connell Bridge.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby GrahamH » Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:47 am

:)

Though there is potential to fit more space, if not quite match the existing floor area of the tower, on the site as a whole if one includes the theatre.

What would be the practical implications of knocking Liberty Hall and building another tower in its place?
Would the precendent set be factored into consideration by DCC? If it went to appeal (very likely methinks), how would APB view the proposal, not least it being next to the Custom House?
Would they evaluate the scheme entirely objectively, or factor in the precedent?

An 'interesting' state of affairs would arise to say the least if a building that would never in a million years get planning permission today if proposed for the first time on this site were to sail through the process on such grounds.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby PVC King » Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:56 am

It would be 'the grey area' application of all time.

On the one hand you have a precedent for 16 storeys with an established commercial use and a long established occupier, on the other hand you have the Custom House which in todays planning set up would be protected if the application were considered De Novo.

I am going to cop out horribly on this and suggest that it should be reclad and an angular extension should start at the eighth floor and be built at gentle slope over the 'to be demolished shops' on Eden Quay with the slope ending in line with the established building line of the 'Seamans Building'

Therebye tidying up the mess at that end of Eden Quay and masking the dreadful rear elevation of the VHI building on Abbey St
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby GrahamH » Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:13 am

Another disaster that, and a scheme of a vintage that cannot remotely cling on to 60s brutalist planning as any form of excuse.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby PVC King » Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:21 am

I genuinely believe that the architects of the 1960's genuinely believed that they were in a new paradigm and that brutalist architecture was the ultimate expression of man's conquering technology to deliver functionality to the masses, Liberty Hall in that context is quite a soft expression with its proportioned plinth and crown. It could almost be described as a modern building that was compromised by Victorian influences represented by the copper crown and less impressive plinth.

No such excuses for the VHI that was cynical penny pinching; not that the VHI have been doing much of that with their premiums lately.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby asdasd » Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:35 pm

brutalist architecture was the ultimate expression of man's conquering technology to deliver functionality to the masses


Prettiness in architecture is a bourgeois concept, comrade The masses merely care about functionality.
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Re: Liberty Hall

Postby paul lite » Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:44 pm

I hope that if they do knock it something of equal hight is built on that site, possibly taller. Dublin certainly does need all the tall buildings it can get. To knock it and build a 6 storey box in it's place would be a nightmare. I think that this country is very slow to build highrises. There are even delays with Alto Vetro and Montevetro which proves my point. Build them right now I say. Don't waste time and allow them to slip through. Look at what happened to the proposed Southbank Tower. To be honest though I do hate Montevetro. It's not one bit tasty at all. :)
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