developments in cork

developments in cork

Postby lexington » Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:30 pm

Ladies & Gentlemen,

in repsonse to recent issues concerning the Look at de state of Cork, like! thread - with the consent of the Archiseek Webmaster - I hope to begin this fresh thread to continue the positive elements of the aforementioned thread.

The thread has been a very positive effort for all those involved and concerned - and, I would hope that we can build on that.

However, in this thread, though active discussion and constructive arguments/contributions are most welcome - I would very much like to see that all contributing posts are 'positive' in nature. Now, that's not to say honest criticism cannot be dictated, indeed, it should as part of any proper debate. If CSD are unfair, then so let it be mentioned. If CCC make a critical mistake, let it be known - but that does not mean such critiques should descend to levels of low-blows.

I would hope, that as well as development - that a continually greater emphasis on architecture should be stressed. After all this is a primarily architectural resource website and this must be highlighted in conjunction with any development discussion.

A link to the LADSOCL thread is provided at the bottom of this post for purposes of reference (e.g. images, dates, previous information).

Would this be an acceptable routeway to other contributors?

It is the reponsibility of thread particpants to monitor their own input - and to highlight any inappropriate contributions by others. We actively encourage all members concerned to particpate in a healthy debate - that includes CSD members, CCC Planning members, Architects, Developers, Engineers and general interested parties.


Referal link:
Look at de state of Cork, like!
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Cork: Architecture & Development

Postby pier39 » Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:51 pm

sounds good to me dude!

we can start fresh! let the party commence!!! huzzah!
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Re: Cork: Architecture & Development

Postby mickeydocs » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:35 pm

cool

any official announcement on eglinton street yet

anyone got a copy of inside cork and the story on pairc ui caoimh?
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Eglinton Street

Postby lexington » Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:55 pm

As par my post at -> http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?p=36510#post36510

Eglinton Street was granted subject to 25 conditions. A positive day for Cork architecture and progressive development.
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Re: Cork: Architecture & Development

Postby Radioactiveman » Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:40 pm

I don't see why we had to move from the LATSOC thread but anyway, here goes....

Saw the article in the Inside Cork this morning. It suggests that discussions might be ongoing with a view to transferring Cork's GAA headquarters to a site near Blarney and opening up the existing site for redevelopment. Apparently the GAA are stuck for ways of re-developing the existing stadium due to the cramped nature of the site and some subsidence issues on the river side of the stadium. All very sketchy at the moment and of course denied by GAA themselves.

I for one would be against the movement of Pairc Ui Caoimh. It currently has the best public transport network you can get - i.e. it's within walking distance of the City Centre. Moving it to a greenfield site at Blarney would be bad for Cork-based GAA supporters and for business in the city as a whole. The space is there to accomodate a new stadium but perhaps those involved would prefer the green field option with a handsome sum of money for the riverside site.
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Re: Cork: Architecture & Development

Postby mickeydocs » Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:06 pm

Thanks R-man
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Re: Cork: Architecture & Development

Postby trace » Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:01 pm

How about sticking to ARCHITECTURE and development, for a change, instead of planning and development on this thread? There is a difference, you know.
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Re: Cork: Architecture & Development

Postby satanta99 » Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:22 pm

Planning is an essential part of the development of Cork City. It is not and should not be alien to the architecture and development of the city! These three factors affect the city and make it what it is. i don't see the point in being smart about the content of the tread in relation to the title. Why do people have such a problem with looking at The City with such a wholistic perspective. This forum and the LADSOC thread offer a true opportunity to exchange information and ideas which I believe leads to a wholistic discussion of Architecture, development and Planning in Cork City.
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Re: Cork: Architecture & Development

Postby mickeydocs » Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:23 am

let's just keep the thread going as it has all along... there is a great momentum and I for one would hate for this to change
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Re: Cork: Architecture & Development

Postby genario » Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:32 am

I agree with mickeydocs. This Cork forum is very popular and generally I think is a very positive thing. It helps me and the other peoples in this firm focus on the design standards we must improve and comptetion on. I read the newpapers and read the forums and of only two comments I think of are bad. Overall it is just democracy and opinions no more than of the corksouthwest.com website expresses. Do not be bullied out of a good thing. It is important to be careful of the future when phrasing these things but also we must protect the good names of this website from unfair newspapers articles.

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Re: Cork: Architecture & Development

Postby Radioactiveman » Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:06 pm

The owners of the Woodford on Paul Street have been refused permision by CCC to link the neighbouring Loco Cafe premises to the Woodford pub (which is a listed building).
The plans would have extended the Cafe area into the pub and provided extra toilet facilities. However, since no guarantee the plans would not lead to the extension of the pub, the plans were refused because they may have led to the creation of a "superpub".

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Re: Cork: Architecture & Development

Postby ewankennedy » Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:06 pm

In all that rucus about the other 'issue' - we forgot the really good news........

...Eglinton street is after getting the go ahead! A really decent architectural statement is set to be made and should act as a novel gateway into the revived docklands and city. Well done OFlynns! I think a newspaper report said it would get started straight away but my buddy in City hall said that there might be a festival there (at the Eglinton st site) for the end of the year of culture??? So i'd say lex's report of 2006 start date could well be true. Either way its great news. The standard of building design should be encouraged by this movement.
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Eglinton Street

Postby redabbeyredux » Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:13 pm

Yep, best news this year for Cork's cityscape!
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Hochtief to sign School of Music contracts by end of July

Postby lexington » Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:37 pm

:rolleyes: How long has this thing been going on??? :o Finally, the Cork School of Music (CSM) designed by architects Murray O'Laoire, looks set to roll. Originally, the 110,000sq ft + project was proposed back in 1999 and has since suffered a number of severe setbacks from planning to funding to contractual misendeavours. Jarvis had originally been appointed to the PPP educational project - at one point in 2004, movement looked set when Jarvis signed a contract with John Sisk & Sons Construction to build the project on their behalf, however, when Jarvis ran into financial difficulties, its PPP wing was sold to German-firm Hochtief. The Dept. of Education has since been in negotiations with the firm about commencing work on the belated building - now, an agreement would seem to have been reached. If all goes well, a construction date is set for sometime in September of this year with an 18 month build-period. The project should be functional and open to the college's 3,000+ music students in time for the 2007 semester.

This indeed, is another positive development (following yesterday's announcement regarding Eglinton Street) in Cork's architectural and educational wilderness. It is believed Sisk Construction will still remain appointed to the contract.

Image Image Image

Any opinions on its design?
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Re: Cork: Architecture & Development

Postby d_d_dallas » Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:07 pm

Well, better than a surface car park!

Is there an additional pedestrian bridge going in?
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Re: Cork: Architecture & Development

Postby Ronan C » Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:35 pm

Does anybody have images of the new building on Elgin St or even who the architects were so I can look on their website ? Thanks in advance ...
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Re: Cork: Architecture & Development

Postby iloveCORK2 » Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:14 am

Ronan C wrote:Does anybody have images of the new building on Elgin St or even who the architects were so I can look on their website ? Thanks in advance ...


The architects are Wilson Architects. Visit them at http://www.wilsonarchitecture.ie

Can't seem to put pictures up on this post-weird...

Will try again later.
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Re: Cork: Architecture & Development

Postby PVC King » Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:42 am

Can a basic level of behaviour be provided on this thread?


I.E. No-one being demeaned or defamed or misrepresented?
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Re: Cork: Architecture & Development

Postby lexington » Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:44 am

Thomond Park wrote:Can a basic level of behaviour be provided on this thread?
I.E. No-one being demeaned or defamed or misrepresented?


Thomond Park - I do not believe that is a very fair comment to make. As far as the LADSOCL thread goes, the general standard of 'behaviour' was/is very high. Yes opinions were expressed, yes positions were argued - but I would expect nothing less of a open forum which supports such discussion.

If you refer to the the statement posted by Paul Clerkin regarding the publication articles - it becomes evident that the 'misrepresentation' has predominantly come from the press with respect to the users of this forum and the website itself.

Alleged statements have been highlighted in that they were presented in a misleading and inaccurate manner. Now, indeed comments were made - but of the 1800+ posts on that thread alone, the subject posts represented approximately 3 or 4 of these.

If CSD for example, given that they are the topic group at issues, act in a clearly imbalanced or unfair manner, than indeed this may and will be highlighted by users of this thread. Equally, the CSD website readily points out its issues with certain developments. The issue at hand, in terms of the behaviour you speak of, is where posts are 'insults'. As mentioned, those points were 0.0016% of the total posts made. Supporters and members of groups like CSD have always been free to counter-argue their perspectives and as far as I am aware, have at all times been treated with respect and welcome.

In the article statement, it was noted that those comments made and deemed inappropriate have resulted in the action of membership removal.

I hope this thread avails of all the positive aspects of the LADSOCL thread - that it encourages and supports active discussion regarding architecture within the city, the architecture and their effects of new projects in the city, the development backgrounds and how the designs and proposals are affected through the planning process - the process which ultimately brings these design additions to 'reality'. The outcomes of these projects are affected by planning submissions and it is perfectly reasonable to include mention of the nature of these submissions so that a greater empirical sense of the projects development to life is accounted for. As we know too often, the planning process can have consequences on the end design result.
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Re: Cork: Architecture & Development

Postby dowlingm » Sat Jul 09, 2005 7:49 am

If I may say without being branded ageist, it is a pity that certain groups wish to put Cork in some kind of suspended animation when they claim to represent people of an agegroup who were responsible for the electrification of Ireland and the boom years of Lemass and Whitaker. Instead they prey on the fears of elderly people about being dispossed and sent god knows where, to be replaced by whom I wonder?

The fact is that Cork has had unsatisfactory development in the past which led to the decline of the City's population even while the rest of the county and country increased in numbers. LATSOCL was a barometer of how far Cork had come since and how close it came to screwing it up as it did and where it might go.

I think such groups if actively involved in the transformation of Cork could actually do a world of good and it is up to Cork City Council to find a way out of their dog in the manger attitude to provide an inclusive process of evolution for the City while still allowing people to make a few bob in making Cork a bigger, better place.

Finally, of course Architecture and Planning are different. There is nothing stopping people creating threads to discuss pure architecture and leave those of us who enjoy the holistic (and more accessible to the layman such as myself) discussions of State of Cork to continue on here. To suggest that State of Cork was all about planning was to deny all the swishy scans Lexington provided!

I do think the new forum title is a bit dry. State of Cork was a great title and I'm sure drew a lot of views from the bantering headline alone. In a way it seems the knockers have won by this change alone. Let's try and retain the humour while softpedalling the acid?
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Re: Cork: Architecture & Development

Postby altuistic » Sat Jul 09, 2005 11:08 am

well said Mark.

Could somebody please explain something to me because i'm not sure i'm up to date on something, why was it necessary to issue a new webpage when the other state of cork webpage was perfectly fine? I dont need to remind you how popular and important it has become as a resource. one of the things that attracted so many first time users to the archiseek.com website as a whole was its extensive depth and detail. Days on end could be spent exploring it and each day one could find something new and wonderful. If the culprit(s?) have been addressed shouldnt we continue on with the good work as it was? Why should the comments of 1 or 2 and the outrageously unfair and incorrect paper articles disbenefit the rest of us and the website? I myself am not a solicitor (thats my sons job) and when i discussed this issue with him he said the wise thing for the paper to do was to issue a well seen apology to the website. whatever of it i dont know it's not got to do with me but I do feel the loss of the other thread will disbenefit us.

On that note I am most pleased to hear some progress is being made for the music school. The design i suppose represents that the term of landmark building does not mean highrise. I do think however it looks far more intriguing by nightime. The use of light seems most interesting and the materials used in the buildings design seems to allow a rich tapestry of effects under nightime lights which gives the building much more character.
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Re: Cork: Architecture & Development

Postby Paul Clerkin » Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:13 pm

Contrary to what the Examiner said, they obviously didn't examine too closely and were too keen for a headline suggesting a result, the original thread is still online here. It is not lost.
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Re: Cork: Architecture & Development

Postby genario » Sat Jul 09, 2005 3:32 pm

So can we use it again yes/no????? This good if we can continue.

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Re: Cork: Architecture & Development

Postby dave123 » Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:29 am

this is all confusing?? read into to much i think.
i have nothing against the cork thread, the old thread was good and now this ???
but i do think that there is enough threads going for cork and its all hypep a bit
although i do enjoy reading it..

my point is could they not just have one decent thread???
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Re: Cork: Architecture & Development

Postby iloveCORK2 » Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:04 am

Ronan C wrote:Does anybody have images of the new building on Elgin St or even who the architects were so I can look on their website ? Thanks in advance ...


As promised

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Maybe go to O'Flynn Construction's website for more images... Haven't looked throught the whole website yet.
Thanks Lex...
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