dublin airport terminal

Does the architectural quality appear low?

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dublin airport terminal

Postby ct3 » Sun Apr 23, 2000 9:49 pm

someone in aer rianta told me recently that pier d would not be going ahead and obstructing the old terminal as originally planned. anyone know anything?
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Sat Apr 29, 2000 1:15 pm

Really?

That would be good news. It's so hard to explain to the average member of the public why 20th century works are important.
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Postby trace » Tue Nov 20, 2001 1:17 pm

Pier D (which is planned to project out of the 'free' end of the old terminal building) is back on the agenda.

A Government report [prepared by an interdepartmental committee set up to limit the economic fall-out of the September 11th attacks] calls on Aer Rianta "to procure the development of Pier D by spring 2003 on the basis of the existing planning permission as a low-cost facility targeting low-cost carriers". Aer Rianta should "enter into appropriate arrangements for the management of Pier D to ensure that it facilitates significant growth in throughput at Dublin airport from low-cost operators", the report continues. Aer Rianta received the report yesterday and has been asked to respond within a week.

The full story: http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/finance/2001/1120/fin7.htm

The old terminal building: http://www.irish-architecture.com/archdublin/20thc/airport.html

More muddled thinking from the Minister for Congestion! Surely the problem at Dublin airport after September 11th is one of finding ways to fill the additonal capacity recently provided by Pier C and the new aprons, rather than building a new pier? If more building is required, why not construct a new terminal solely for low-cost carriers on the other side of the airfield?
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Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby Niall » Thu May 19, 2005 1:49 pm

I thought I'd start a thread on this topic as I haven't seen it anywhere else on here. Apologies if I am wrong!

In the light of months of procrastination regarding the Dublin airport terminals and Aer Lingus, isn't about time we had a Taoiseach and cabinet who can show strong leadership and make decisions?

I for one feel this country is in a state of permanent paralysis with Bertie at the helm. He is far too accommodating. Too much talk and too little action! When we had someone with enthusiasm like Brennan at transport he was shafted, because Bertie thought him too divisive. Politicians are paid to get on with the job. We can't go on like this, our competiveness will be shot to pieces and our quality of life worsened.

My thoughts, yours?
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby kefu » Thu May 19, 2005 2:15 pm

As regards the architectural merits or otherwise of the pier extension and new terminal, I have a feeling we'll be very disappointed.
Mary Harney on Pat Kenny this morning said she did not want a "Taj Mahal" or an "over-spec" extension/terminal. If she said it once - she said it a hundred times.
One of the first things out the window will be the design elements.
And considering the atrocious standard of buildings at Dublin Airport (the original terminal the glorious exception) - there's not likely to be any improvement with the DAA left in charge.
As regards your actual point, not sure if you're on the right forum at all.
But I don't think dithering is confined to just FF/PD. It's a fact of life with our style of government where the supposedly national representatives are beholden to the local interests of individual constituents/parishes.
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby corcaighboy » Thu May 19, 2005 3:37 pm

What is the status of the Fitzgearld designed old terminal? Is it still being used as admin offices? And whatever about the architectural merits of the new terminal, absolutely anything would be an improvement on what passes for infrastructure there at the moment. The airport and the DAA who are supposed to be 'managing' it are a bad joke.
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby Paul Clerkin » Thu May 19, 2005 3:43 pm

Used as both offices and for a few departure gates.....

Actually I quite like this building close by the Fitzgerald Terminal

North Terminal (Department of Transport and Power )
http://www.irish-architecture.com/buildings_ireland/dublin/collinstown/north_terminal.html
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby PVC King » Thu May 19, 2005 7:01 pm

What is it with Dublin Airport that any decent architecture must be screened by poor architecture. Re: Kefus post I find Mary Harney's comments offensive, why does everything state run or owned need to be done on a shoe string budget that is only capable of delivering a yellow pack spec product? Do I detect a hint of sour grapes that her host (with Chas McGreevy) in the South of France was denied his terminal and ancilliary business park? Dublin needs a bold statement to mark what is the cities only gateway worth speaking of, I'm sure that she had some influence in ensuring the removal of the airbridges in Corks fine new terminal due to a 'cost over-run'. Semi-States are inefficient get used to it.

Schipol & Frankfurt are two examples of how develop airports with the distant terminals being Europes two major air-freight facilities, but all passengers being accomodated from one entrance.
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby ctesiphon » Thu May 19, 2005 7:46 pm

Off the point a little, but I'm not sure Desmond Fitzgerald designed the original terminal. Sure, it's generally attributed to him, but Sean Rothery's 'Ireland and the New Architecture' points out that much of the design work was done while DF was out of the country. I can't remember the name of the team member to whom SR (implicitly) attributes it- my own copy of the book is at home and Richview Library is now on summer hours. O'Toole? Byrne? Drat! I'll be back...
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby Paul Clerkin » Thu May 19, 2005 8:23 pm

According to many contemporary architects, FitzGerald was not the main author of the design but rather the young team of architects working for him. After Dublin Airport, FitzGerald never produced anything of comparable quality again. Although now dwarfed by its larger and less distinguished terminal neighbour, the old terminal has been restored and is now in use as offices. It won the RIAI Gold Medal for 1938-1940.
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby ctesiphon » Fri May 20, 2005 11:42 am

I checked last night- Rothery suggests Dermot O'Toole (1911-1971) as a possible main hand, though he's diplomatic enough not to come down too heavily against DFitzGerald just in case.

(Rothery, S., Ireland and the new architecture, 1900-1940, pp.214-219.)
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby GregF » Fri May 20, 2005 12:08 pm

kefu wrote:As regards the architectural merits or otherwise of the pier extension and new terminal, I have a feeling we'll be very disappointed.
Mary Harney on Pat Kenny this morning said she did not want a "Taj Mahal" or an "over-spec" extension/terminal. If she said it once - she said it a hundred times.
One of the first things out the window will be the design elements.
And considering the atrocious standard of buildings at Dublin Airport (the original terminal the glorious exception) - there's not likely to be any improvement with the DAA left in charge.
As regards your actual point, not sure if you're on the right forum at all.
But I don't think dithering is confined to just FF/PD. It's a fact of life with our style of government where the supposedly national representatives are beholden to the local interests of individual constituents/parishes.



So looks as if we'll get a more of the same design thing...low ceilings, cramped conditions, a bit here and a bit there, meandering maze effect. Mary ain't no woman of style. Bless her, the poor cow!
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby GrahamH » Fri May 20, 2005 9:08 pm

Paul Clerkin wrote:According to many contemporary architects, FitzGerald was not the main author of the design but rather the young team of architects working for him. After Dublin Airport, FitzGerald never produced anything of comparable quality again.


Is that not perhaps indicative of Fitzgerald largely not having been involved in its design? :)

Yes the low ceilings are the worst element of the current terminal's interior. Fergus Finlay highlighted that very point with Pat Kenny this morning again, and how the whole airport has been carved up into three floors.

It is a shame such a shambles of a place helps formulate people's first impression of Ireland - and this is not going to be helped if a functional glorfied motorway megastore-like shed goes up as the second terminal.

The whole complex out there is so uncoordinated with no sense of coherence and few structures worthy of note save the orginal terminal, some other ancillary structures like that mentioned above, and Collinstown House.

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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby PVC King » Sat May 21, 2005 1:51 am

I like Schipol a lot, a single storey terminal for both arrivals and departures, passport control is in the Netherlands and departures are on the flight level.
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Finally New Terminal

Postby patty » Mon May 23, 2005 8:02 pm

Terminal two approved at Dublin airport



Terminal Two agreed at last

Government to sell majority stake in Aer Lingus

The Government has at last made the decision to proceed with the second terminal at Dublin Airport and at the same time agreed in principle to partially privatise Aer Lingus. Details were announced following a Cabinet meeting on Wednesday afternoon although earlier in the day, when questioned in the Dáil, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern would commit to nothing more than that an announcement would be made "shortly".

Dublin Airport Authority will build and own the new terminal but the DAA and other companies will be invited to submit tenders to decide who will operate it. Those who were hoping for competition were disappointed, particularly when Minister for Transport Martin Cullen said that whoever won the tender would have to operate it in accordance with the terms of an agreement between the Government and the trade unions. In an apparent move to avert criticism Taoiseach Bertie Ahern warned that work practices at the airport would have to change radically and claimed that this was understood by the unions. He added, however, that the trade unions will be involved in the entire process of bringing the new terminal on stream. Concerned at these comments, the Chambers of Commerce of Ireland called for the immediate publication of last year's agreement between the Government and the Irish Congress of Trade Unions.

While the DAA will be responsible for the construction of the new terminal it must first consult with the airlines planning to use it. It has also been told that it must create a functional building meeting basic needs and able to operate as efficiently as possible. Work is also to proceed on a new pier at the existing terminal. Pier D should be in operation in 2007 and the completion date of the new terminal is 2009. By that stage the planning process for a third terminal should be at an advanced stage and ready for implementation before the first two terminals reach their capacity of 30 million passengers per year. No decisions were made on who should build, own or operate the third terminal.

Tourism and industry groups welcomed the decision but there is a widespread belief that, having waited so long, they were ready to welcome any decision that hastened the completion of Terminal 2. Aer Lingus also welcomed the news but Ryanair's CEO Michael O'Leary was scathing in his criticism. He described the existing terminal as "not just a slum" but "a testament to the failure of Bertie Ahern to keep his own promises". Mr O'Leary has long advocated that the terminal should be built and operated by the private sector, given the record of state involvement to date. Another critic was Ulick McEvaddy who owns 150 acres of land adjacent to the airport and fronting the N2. He is anxious to build the terminal and points to the problem of all airport traffic trying to reach both terminals from the M1. Mr McEvaddy plans to lodge a complaint under national and EU competition law.

Minister Cullen justified the partial privatisation of the national airline on the basis that it required substantial capital to expand. He gave an assurance that, while a majority stake would be sold, the Government would retain at least a 25% stake in the airline to ensure that it is not the subject of a trade sale to another airline. He also believes that this will prevent the sale of valuable landing slots at Heathrow. On this occasion his critics either attacked the decision to privatise the airline or attacked the minister for failing to specify the percentage of the airline he planned to sell, how much he hoped to raise and whether it would be by sale to a private investor or via a stock market flotation. Opposing the sale of a stake in the airline were the trade unions, the Labour Party, the Greens and Sinn Féin.

The Minister hailed the decisions as momentous for the aviation sector. PD leader Tánaiste Mary Harney was more subdued. Political observers saw the Terminal Two decision as a victory for Fianna Fáil but, while acknowledging that concessions had been made, Ms Harney insisted that both the PDs and Fianna Fáil had made concessions in the interests of coalition Government.
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby DublinLimerick » Mon Aug 15, 2005 11:08 am

I passed through Munich Airport Terminal 2 at the weekend and I must say it is one of the most beautiful, efficient
and comfortable terminals i have ever been in.
I hope Dublin's new terminal will be built to the same specifications.
More information can be found at http://www.munich-airport.de
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby alpha » Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:34 pm

i really do hope/wish that the end result will be something nice and striking. i also hope/wish that it will be an efficient and spacious building. i'd say that it will end up being bland and boring though as well as cramped.
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby A-ha » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:46 pm

Can I just point out that Frankfurt had a new terminal built about three years ago for a cost of €14 million. The contractors did however manage to over spend by about €500,000 (how alarming, NOT!) What is so insane about this picture?!?! Frankfurt gets new terminal, it costs €14 million. Cork gets new terminal, it costs €150 million. Dublin gets new terminal, it costs ... If Germany can build a large terminal for peanuts, we could have a decent airport in every city in Ireland. And I mean an airport, not just a landing strip and a galvanise shed (i.e. Galway and Waterford). How do we manage to spend so much when it could cost so little?
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby PVC King » Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:59 pm

Are you sure that that wasn't an air cargo terminal on Rhein Main?
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby A-ha » Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:44 pm

<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZNxdm799YYIE' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_36.gif' alt='Money' border=0></a>Yes, I'm sure. Ryanair said so! So it has to be right. And I read it in the newspaper when it first opened. It's able to manage about five million passangers. It's not alot, but for a €14million terminal what would you expect. I can't seem to remember the name of the airport that it was built at, but for that price, I suspect it's fairly basic, but who cares, the most you'll spend in an airport is 2-3hours. It doesn't have to be a 5 star health spa.
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby PVC King » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:02 pm

I see where your going with this, it is not at Frankfurt Flughaven but at Frankurt Hahn which like Rhein Main is a recycled former USAF facility although not as well located as Rhein Main which sits to the East of the main airport.

Given the number of passengers handled at Hahn a large spec facility isn't really required as with careful slot management and a total absence of long haul or cargo operations on scheduled flights turnaround times are impressive.

What surprises me is that M O'Leary would mention Hahn in relation to Dublin as the facility propsed by M was designed by DeBlacham & Meaghar and was of a very high design level, it was also virtually interlinked to the existing terminal and would have made a single rail stop to serve both terminals possible. It would have deliverd the best of both Worlds ie competing operators and yet have been so adjacent that transfer would have been as smooth as though there was only one.
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby DublinLimerick » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:05 pm

Spending 2 - 3 hours in some dump like LHR or JFK is enough to put one off air travel.
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby alpha » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:10 pm

i like frankfurt airport. i passed through it about three to four years ago and was very impressed. i also love the mini train conecting the two terminals. i'm sure the train is still there. by the way... cool smiley a-ha. :)
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby A-ha » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:14 pm

Try spending 12 hours in LHR after a 13 hour flight from Japan. At least they have a Harrods in there (like I could afford anything in there anyway). There is something so depressing about airports, even though I love going to them... big planes ohhhh. But I would prefer the government building new terminals every 20 years for a few million rather then repair old derelict things from the 60's for hundreds of millions.
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Re: Dublin airport terminals fiasco!

Postby A-ha » Mon Aug 15, 2005 10:19 pm

Stansted was always a beautiful airport, so modern, open and spacious, that is before Ryanair took over the place anyway.<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZNxdm799YYIE' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_9_2.gif' alt='Teary' border=0></a>
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