college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby notjim » Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:03 pm

i think the need has arisen and the carrot is dublin bus.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby PVC King » Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:13 pm

Starbucks are finally to arrive in Dublin City Centre according to todays Irish Times they have according to Jack Fagan agreed a deal for the ground floor of number 1 College Green. I noted with interest that the adjoining occupiers are Little Ceasars and Centra and that TCD now appear to have swallowed up most of the College Green / Foster Place / Anglesea St block. Good article a few other interesting stories in it.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby GrahamH » Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:26 am

Yes - they're paying €220,000 a year for the premises; the comparitively modest rent presumably reflecting its secondary location.
Does it say anything about us that what could be percived in name terms anyway as the central trading pitch in all of Ireland - No 1 College Green - being occupied by Starbucks?
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby ctesiphon » Sat Apr 09, 2005 5:24 pm

The argument that one must drive into work because one needs a car for site visits is weak. As things currently stand, maybe not, but it shows a slight lack of imagination. Could companies not keep a car or two (or three...) expressly for this purpose, thus freeing us up to walk or cycle or Luas or bus for the home-to-work journey? Or what about renting a car when needed? Or public transport?
I don't want to over-simplify the argument, but it is imperative that we attempt to apply some imagination to these problems, rather than just seeing the cards that we already hold in our hands.
I'm currently formulating a thesis topic on this very subject- I hope to post here soon re same, and all opinions would be welcome, especially those of motorists (I can't drive, and I cycle everywhere, so I have an inherent bias that must be countered :) ). I'll be in touch.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby phil » Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:20 pm

Thomond Park wrote:Starbucks are finally to arrive in Dublin City Centre according to todays Irish Times they have according to Jack Fagan agreed a deal for the ground floor of number 1 College Green. I noted with interest that the adjoining occupiers are Little Ceasars and Centra and that TCD now appear to have swallowed up most of the College Green / Foster Place / Anglesea St block. Good article a few other interesting stories in it.


The ground floor space that Starbucks are moving into is owned by Treasury. According to the piece I saw in the Times, some deal was done between Starbucks and Treasury Holdings with regards those buildings. I dont really know the details though.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby PVC King » Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:31 pm

I don't know the details on that one Phil, I doubt Jack Fagan does either that would be a very quiet deal analysing the players involved. The only issue of note here is signage and as this is an ACA the following is relevant:

About this time 12 years ago TP was on a weeks break to Berlin and on the Saturday I headed down to Dresden for the day, what I saw in Dresden's main St I couldn't believe; it was a McDonalds in a building with its original shopfront (name other than McDonalds) and McDonalds signage limited to small signs hung from the interior ceiling of no more than 1200 X 400. The signage was painted on a mahogany background. College Green is an equally sensitive location.

One recent sign put into this general area is the taning shop at 6a D'Olier St opposite the GAS building, it is totally inappropriate and wasn't there last November. Has anyone else noticed it?
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby phil » Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:38 pm

Interesting point Thomond P. Have you ever been to McDonalds in Bray? Same deal. It was the old Town Hall as far as I know. Very prominnant building at the top of the main street, which is also the point where the road divides ino two. I cannot recall exactly what signage is allowed, but it is far less than the normal McDs.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby PVC King » Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:49 pm

That was a good precedent to set for the town, the Town Hall is such an important building in the architectural hierarchy of Bray and to allow anything other than best practice would have been a disaster at that location. No.1 College Green is no less important given its proximity to the Bank of Ireland complex and Foster Place the importance of both cannot be underestimated in the heritage of the City.

Another proposal under application is within No.2 College Green, it is proposed within the main facade to insert a modern disabled access ramp at the eastern side (the one that leads to FX). While being totally in favour of full implementation of Part M of the building regulations; I am totally opposed to this given the International Importance of this building.

The obvious solutions to me were either

1> Ramp the step at the College St entrance

or

2> Open up an opening into fake door on the Foster Place elevation.

I noted that the application was compiled by a Northern firm, I wonder could this be an indication that one or more southern practices considered it to be a serious mistake?
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby ctesiphon » Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:42 am

Does anybody know what happened to the sculpture that was affixed to the wall of No.1 College Green? It sat in one of the ground floor bays that has now been turned into a window. It was an abstract composition, green (possible marble?) and every time I pass the building I miss it.

There's recent precedent in the UK stating that artwork designed for a building should remain with that building, rather than remain the property of the owners, even where the owners commissioned it for a specific building. I'm concerned about this item- perhaps they intend to re-hang it inside? I feel that exterior art belongs not just to the building but to the public realm also, and Dame St/College Green is the poorer for its absence.

Any info?
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby phil » Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:53 am

Ctesiphon. As far as I know the person who deals with art works in Trinity is Dr. Edward McParland. His details are on the link below. He might know what happened to it. However, as discussed earlier, this part of the building seems to be belong to Treasury Holdings. They are quite into their public art, so I would be suprised if they had got rid of it (Figure climbing side of Treasury Building and Horses Head as examples). Do you have an image of it?

http://www.tcd.ie/History_of_Art/html/staff_pages/edward.html

http://www.treasuryholdings.ie/corporate/art.asp
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby ctesiphon » Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:39 am

Cheers for that Phil. I do have a picture of it at home, but it's a print only and scanner access is a problem. I'll see what I can do.
It was in situ until the recent works were begun. I'm crossing my fingers that it'll be replaced, though it can't go back in its old location as that's now a window.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby ctesiphon » Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:25 pm

Phil-

Here (hopefully- it's my first time attaching images!) are those images of the sculpture, and the building, showing it in context.
Apologies for the quality, but they're digital photos of existing print photos. Still, it should give you what you want.
Attachments
Riada-Gateway_0019 Crop 50%.jpg
Riada-Gateway_0019 Crop 50%.jpg (74.91 KiB) Viewed 5215 times
Riada-Gateway_0017 Crop 50%.jpg
Riada-Gateway_0017 Crop 50%.jpg (57.17 KiB) Viewed 5217 times
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby phil » Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:38 pm

Thanks Ctesiphon. Those images came out ok, all things considering. I remember that well now. I wonder where it went?
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby Morlan » Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:35 pm

I noticed today that the island on College Green has been borded up. Any idea why?

Image
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby StephenC » Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:22 pm

The OPW are repairing the fountain and renovating the area around the Thomas David memorial. Its been like this for a while. Should be near completion soon.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby anto » Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:20 pm

any chance they'll cut down those trees that obstruct the view of Trinity?
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby Morlan » Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:37 pm

Thanks Stephen, never noticed it before. Are they going to have the water pumping too?

anto wrote:any chance they'll cut down those trees that obstruct the view of Trinity?


I doubt it. I'd say the trees won't get any attention until Westmorland St is redeveloped.
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Re: college green trees

Postby Devin » Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:18 pm

They have to stay for the moment cos the traffic is so bad. But if Luas goes through College Gn.......................now that's a different matter...
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby Alek Smart » Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:49 am

I seem to remember (through a haze of hallucenogens) hearing that Tomas Dabhis was to be re-erected at a different location......not sure if this is fiction,faction or malicious rumour !
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby kefu » Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:23 pm

I never heard Thomas Davis was to move.
There was, however, some talk about doing something with the Wolfe Tone statue up at St Stephen's Green as part of the general rejigging of traffic and so on up there - can't even remember what was proposed.
Both are by Edward Delaney, so perhaps that's where the confusion arises.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby StephenC » Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:39 pm

Wolfe Tone is still in place although the large expanse in ront of him looks a little bleak. I hope that the fountain at the Davis memorial will finally be truned on...its quite an attractive feature although unfortunately very few people get to appreciate the statue stuck as it is on a traffic island. I think some lighting of the monument would be welcome as well. I presume the fact that the monument is boarded up means that major works as going on. They were originally scheduled for completion in Spring 2005 but I think the fountain's plumbing proved more problematic than expected.

I have to say I like both these monuments....they were both put in place in 1966 to mark the anniversary of the Easter Rising. Its interesting how much 'monument building' went on that year....G of Rememberence, all those plaques, various statues.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby GrahamH » Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:49 pm

At last your statue is getting some TLC Stephen - I take it from your many previous posts that you kinda like it :)

It's a fine piece alright, a great shame about the fountain not being operational for so long - I don't even remember it ever working!
It could be spectacularly lit from below too - lots of opportunity there in the base.
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby StephenC » Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:46 pm

From todays Info.....

STARBUCKS' plans to increase its planned coffee shop outlets in Ireland have run into difficulties, amid claims the company's presence would "dumb down" an historic part of Dublin.

The US chain will open its first coffee shop in the country in the Dundrum Town Centre today, but planning objections have delayed its flagship outlet, on Dublin's College Green.

One objector to An Bord Pleanala has protested that granting planning permission would "dumb down" an historic part of the city; that allowing a coffee shop to open would run contrary to plans for a site that had been earmarked for a high quality restaurant, supposed to bring some class back to the area.

Paul Duffy, from Donnycarney, said he has no axe to grind with Starbucks, but added: "May they continue to grow and thrive and dominate the world as they are doing, but let them do so on the side streets away from our most important and historic buildings."

He suggested Starbucks could relocate to Temple Bar "where the coffee might have a sobering effect on the drunks".

Starbucks has more than 9,500 coffee shops worldwide, serving some 33m customers a week. The Seattle-based chain already has a small outlet in Dublin City University, but the Dundrum shop will be its first in the Republic to open to the general public.

Dublin City Council granted planning permission earlier this year to Treasury CMBS, owner of the College Green premises, to change the use of its Riada Building from a restaurant to a coffee shop, but that has now been appealed to An Bord Pleanala, with a decision due in October.

Another objector, Magdalena Gendek, from Drumcondra, protested that a Starbucks coffee shop would further erode the civic fabric of the urban centre, increase litter and it goes against the council's policy of trying to control the spread of heavy corporate branding.

She said: "A restaurant of high quality such as Shanahans would be appropriate for the area, however a Starbucks multinational coffee shop chain store is an entirely different use."

Aideen Sheehan


I thoroughly agree! This is a prime spot....or would be in any other city. However if Starbucks get in you will be able to get your latte to go just befre you hassle a taxi driver to whisk you away from the sight of all those ugly Georgian piles....
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby d_d_dallas » Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:20 pm

Hmmm... I was all in favour of this objection too until I remembered there's a bloody Centra two doors up anyway. Starbucks at least could claim to be classier than that!
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Re: college green/ o'connell street plaza and pedestrians

Postby kefu » Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:16 pm

This is an absolute bulls**t objection and will quite rightly fail.
This is quite clearly predicated on some nonsensical notions about globalisation as Mr Duffy's attempt at wit fairly clearly shows: 'May they continue to grow and thrive and dominate the world as they are doing.'
A new Insomnia went in up the road without a whimper. The nearby Spar and Centras have all been granted licences to sell booze to drunks, which is a far more questionable practice.
Do these people honestly believe we should exclude new businesses from Ireland on the basis of their nationality?
What's more insulting is the clear anti-Americanism implicit in this. It's unacceptable for this non-historic building to be occupied by a major US chain - yet it would have been fine had it been an English or French coffee chain.
It was also perfectly acceptable for two of the city's finest banking buildings (both just across the road) to be occupied by a pub and a furniture shop respectively.
There isn't even an argument that this will somehow erode existing historical coffee retailers as Bewley's are already gone and all the others are of very recent vintage.
And what does Mr Duffy even mean about the site being earmarked for a quality restaurant? Since when have restrictions like that applied anywhere.
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