Why??

World architecture... what's happening generally....

Why??

Postby Boyler » Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:28 am

Why is it that countries that had colonies such as France, Spain, Britain etc, seem to have better architecture? Paris, Madrid and London are beautiful cities but weren't they built from the income from the exploitation of other countries and the misery of their colonies' peoples? :mad:
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Re: Why??

Postby helloinsane » Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:36 am

Depends on whether your definition of beautiful is limited to Age of Enlightenment pillaging of fossilised graeco-roman idioms.
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Re: Why??

Postby GrahamH » Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:38 am

:D


...........................................................................................................................................................................................................
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Re: Why??

Postby GrahamH » Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:44 am

Image
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Re: Why??

Postby Boyler » Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:46 am

I don't mean medieval architecture but architecture from the 1650's onwards. I have nothing against the French, Spanish or British, I just wanted to start an interesting conversation. Did I leave you speechless with my question, Hickey? It's tricky isn't it?
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Re: Why??

Postby helloinsane » Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:55 am

Not so much tricky as moot.

Yes, the major imperial capitals profited from their overseas holdings and invested much of that ill-gotten lucre in [to my mind] overbearing and deeply unsubtle expressions of that dominance; in the main by co-opting the architecture of classical civilizations in the hopes of drawing parallels between their might and that of Imperial Rome.

As ever, the barbarians got the last laugh.
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Re: Why??

Postby Boyler » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:00 am

Good answer, helloinsane. Anyone else have as good an answer? What does moot mean?
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Re: Why??

Postby GrahamH » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:00 am

Hey, you may be 15 but I'm not - less of the schoolyard stuff thanks :)

You make an interesting point - hard cash does wonders for architecture. There's no doubt that the money generated by colonialism aided these countries in creating their built environment. As to whether it is the sole factor I don't know.

In other countries in the past it tended to be the state or rulers of the day that built supposedly great architecture - in Enlightened Europe the cash was spread comparitively across the board and industry & commerce needed buildings. Combine cash, huge industries and 'enlightenment' - whatever your interpretation of that may be, and you've got, well, if not 'better' architecture, than at least a certain standard of design - and of course, tonnes of it.

It is the sheer amount of the stuff that defines these countries more than anything else.
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Re: Why??

Postby Boyler » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:03 am

My question wasn't schoolyard stuff? You can ask that question to any teenager and more likely than not you wouldn't get an answer. I'm 15 by the way.
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Re: Why??

Postby helloinsane » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:05 am

I think Boyler is saying he's 15.
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Re: Why??

Postby GrahamH » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:06 am

I was referring to your references to me.

Your question is a good one - like I know the answer anyway, just churned out a load of generic tripe :)
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Re: Why??

Postby Boyler » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:10 am

I wasn't offending you, I was only messing. You didn't answer my question, helloinsane, what does moot mean?
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Re: Why??

Postby helloinsane » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:12 am

Let's ask the internet. I bet *it* knows.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=moot
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Re: Why??

Postby PVC King » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:13 am

It is a good point though the way the mercantile classes changed architecture during the age of empires, prior to this point all the prominent architecture would have been Royal, Military or ecclisiastical with the odd fortified house/castle thrown in. Once the trading classes returned from a successful plunder they spent vast fortunes on all types of buildings and commercial architecture emerged for the first time as the leading consumer of large scale buildings.
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Re: Why??

Postby GrahamH » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:14 am

Oooh that's a better answer, some good words in there - sorry helloinsane
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Re: Why??

Postby Boyler » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:23 am

Did you go to my other threads, Hickey? Go to Dublin: it isn't that ugly and Eyre Square - what's going on?
Anyone have any other good points?
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Re: Why??

Postby GrahamH » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:31 am

I'm warning you sonny - any more of that and.....well....there's absolutely nothing I can do....
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Re: Why??

Postby Boyler » Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:37 pm

Don't be intimidated by my question, Hickey. I may be 15 but I can create some thought provoking questions.
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Re: Why??

Postby DublinLimerick » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:09 pm

A question is meaningful only if it can be answered in a manner that is truth verifiable.
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Re: Why??

Postby Frank Taylor » Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:27 pm

Boyler wrote:Why is it that countries that had colonies such as France, Spain, Britain etc, seem to have better architecture? Paris, Madrid and London are beautiful cities but weren't they built from the income from the exploitation of other countries and the misery of their colonies' peoples? :mad:
Ireland now has a high per capita income but this is a very recent phenomenon. Other countries have been through periods of wealth for hundreds of years and have built up stocks of fine buildings and city infrastructure during that time. Ireland obviously had some wealth around the end of the 18th century when the georgians went up. There must have been some cash too in the mid to late19th century when the railways were built in Ireland.

I don't see much connection between colonialism and fine architecture in the colonising countries. A small minority of buildings were influenced by styles from the colonies (museum building, trinity college , Brighton Pavillion etc). As for exploiting the third world, we still do that by running a trading system that blocks third world farmers and producers from western markets and by making alliances with dictatorial governments such as China.

There is an argument that the architecture and economies of many poor countries benefitted through being colonised.
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Re: Why??

Postby PVC King » Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:09 pm

Frank Taylor wrote:I don't see much connection between colonialism and fine architecture in the colonising countries. A small minority of buildings were influenced by styles from the colonies (museum building, trinity college , Brighton Pavillion etc).


I think that Helloinsane has nailed this one with the point

[quote="Helloinsane"] invested much of that ill-gotten lucre in [to my mind] overbearing and deeply unsubtle expressions of that dominance]

The fact that so little influence was drawn from most of the colonies really goes to show how 'superior' this generation felt, the main exception being the 'Egyptian revival period' of the Regency around 1820 or so.
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Re: Why??

Postby Boyler » Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:43 pm

What about indian architecture in Brighton, England?
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