Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby mickeydocs » Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:23 am

Just as we don't end up with the IFSC mk 2.

As far as i'm concerned, the rest of the Docklands is a blank canvas, We need something like the Dublin Docklands Committee to get the thing going though.
mickeydocs
Member
 
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:56 pm

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby Pug » Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:59 pm

[quote="Radioactiveman"]It is an essential public service which should remainn where 90% of the users actually requested it stay. QUOTE]

Fair enough. I actually dont recall the public survey where the people of Cork were asked their opinion by CIE. My point is that if there were shuttle buses departing the city centre regularly, then it wouldnt matter if the bus station was in horgans quay. The entire transport for the city should be there, you should be able to get off a train in Cork and immediately step onto a bus to East or west cork or the airport or city centre with an integrated ticket system. It's CIE missing out on the small but obvious things like being able to get a single intercity ticket for slightly over half the price of a return ticket, not the same price as a full. CIE is a shambles.
Pug
Senior Member
 
Posts: 601
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:50 pm

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby d_d_dallas » Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:00 pm

The infamous "90% want the station to stay" remark was PR bull spouted by CIE and further communicated by local rag Evening Echo and was in relation to the long planned movement of the bus terminal to the Eglinton An Post site, and was used as a get out of jail card for the pathetic "redevelopment" in the current location. Safe to say a "TV3 goes to Moore St" style poll was used. The An Post site made perfect sense in the long term.
d_d_dallas
Senior Member
 
Posts: 850
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2003 2:27 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby jungle » Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:27 pm

I'm quite glad they didn't go to the An Post site. It's not close to the centre. It doesn't integrate with the rail network either.

Plus, the plans for the An Post site are now some of the most interesting in Cork.
jungle
Member
 
Posts: 424
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:11 pm

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby Pug » Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:37 pm

jungle wrote:the plans for the An Post site are now some of the most interesting in Cork.


spot on there jungle, the An post site would have been mental. If they do that tower right and previous pictures of the plans on this site look like they might, I think it will be brilliant to have that size of a tower there.
Pug
Senior Member
 
Posts: 601
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:50 pm

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby Radioactiveman » Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:11 pm

Chack out the advert in the sports section of todays examiner re. upgraded Bus Station.
Excess of 90% wanted it to stay at Parnell Place. Also, this is the view of European transport ministers.

The argument for moving to Horgan's Quay goes something like this:
People arrive in Cork by train, they should be able to get bus to west cork, etc. on site. Fair enough... BUT,
What about people who arrive in Cork by plane, should we therefore move the station to the airport?
What about people who arrive in Cork by Bus? Sure 5% might want to get a train to Cobh, Mallow, etc., but the majority surely either wish to stay in the City or travel on by Bus, so there is nothing to be gained from moving to Horgan's Quay.
A simple shuttle bus service between Parnell Place and Kent Station will provide for the small amount of people who wish to make a train/bus transition. There is simply no, logical motive for moving the train station and Bus station together.
Let that be the end of it! :)
Radioactiveman
Senior Member
 
Posts: 633
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:53 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby Pug » Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:12 pm

Radioactiveman, at the risk of sounding pedantic, I dont for a second believe that 90% statistic . And why in gods name would European transport ministers care a jot about our bus station?? presumably they have more to worry about.

alright , it is indeed the end of this argument, you have just stated and repeated my ORIGINAL point that there be SHUTTLE BUSES to the city centre if the bus station were to be located in some place like Horgans Quay. The bus station should be in a central point in the city with integrated transport services around it i.e. that the train/bus station should be located TOGETHER.

For people who get to Cork by plane, there should be a regular SHUTTLE BUS to the city centre where they could get other trains/buses.

At the end of the day, this argument is irrelevant as your point that CIE will muck around and do precisely nothing with Horgans Quay is fair. Cork is treated like dirt by Dublin cue Martin Cullens recent confirmation that after spending €140m on corks new airport terminal, the cost over runs were so much that there will now be NO air bridges i.e. the terminal will be nice but you will still have to walk out into the lashing risking decapitation by an aircraft propellor. Unbelieavable.:p
Pug
Senior Member
 
Posts: 601
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:50 pm

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby bunch » Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:14 pm

"There is simply no, logical motive for moving the train station and Bus station together."

what an amazing statement - so - there is no logic in having a public transport interchange that cobmines rail and bus on the city's largets opportunity site in a docklands location?? - because bus eireann have stated that 95% of passengers preferred is to stay as it is - that is absolute rubbish - integrated networks within a city centre site (horgans quay) is the optimum scenario for public transport in the city - not a fragmented, second class system where bus and rail systems have no interaction - the shuttle service idea is purely unecessary - the real distance bw the bus and rail station equates toa 5 minute walk! its a bit sad today to see bus eireaan boasting about the half assed effort they have made - and quote european transport ministers as if they even know where cork's bus station is - the reality is is that horgans quay is city centre, is strategically positioned in terms of the road and rail and bus network, the associated development potential would have paid for a new terminus and it would have been well connected to existing city centre and the future docklands - we really shouldnt accept bus erireann's warped logic and their emabarassing effort to use a covert public consultation excersise to justify their lack of ambition.
bunch
Member
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2000 12:00 am
Location: cork

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby Radioactiveman » Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:22 pm

This argument is getting a little boring so, we'll have to agree to disagree for the sake of people who dont give a damn about the bus station.
For the record... Horgan's Quay ain't City Centre. Maybe in 10/15 years time when Horgans Quay site and Docklands is up and running, then it could be described as city centre.
Maybe this will all work out brilliantly. Maybe by spending a paltry amount on the recent refurbishment, they'll be able to move the station to Horgans quay in a few decades when it actually becomes beneficial to do so.
Maybe CIE are geniuses.......... although, then again, no.
Radioactiveman
Senior Member
 
Posts: 633
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:53 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby d_d_dallas » Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:26 pm

The An Post site would have been perfect for inter urban bus routes - with ease most routes would bypass the congestion of the centre make efficient use of the link roads. As opposed to at present where e.g. a bus has to battle through the quays, patrick st, western rd to get to ballincollig/macroom/killarney/tralee. Bear in mind the site was chosen for the LONG TERM. There is plenty of scope for "O'Flynn-esque" projects elsewhere near the An Post Site.
d_d_dallas
Senior Member
 
Posts: 850
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2003 2:27 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby lexington » Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:31 pm

A new terminus as part of an inter-connected transport facility may yet be shifted east toward Kennedy Quay, or even Marina Point - utilising a connection between Horgan's Quay and Kennedy Quay via Water Street Bridge. The existing bus station will serve as an ancillary station and feeder between the docklands and existing city centre through a 'green route' which will in the long-run extend to Mahon Point.

However, you've all seen CIE's track record and attitude regarding Cork (a la Bus Station. Horgan's Quay, Eglinton Street etc). I'm glad OFC are using the An Post site, CIE pretty much stated they had no interest in the CCC plans for a new terminus at that location - we could have been waiting years to see any movement there and in the process held up the whole docklands redevelopment even further. CCC didn't take up the challenege either.
lexington
Old Master
 
Posts: 1327
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:31 pm

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby Pug » Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:32 pm

ok radioactiveman, CIE are throwing up the negative vibes.

Lets go back to the original discussion about corks buildings. I am curious, is the Glucksman totally over rated or is it just my tastes. I definetely appreciate the gallery part, its just the structure. Now bear in mind, i havent been there yet so I will take a closer look and be open to revising my opinion.
Pug
Senior Member
 
Posts: 601
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:50 pm

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby Radioactiveman » Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:50 pm

As i said before, i was totally against the Gluksman when it was first proposed simply because i saw it as overdevelopment of UCC's exquisite lower grounds.
However, every time i look at the finished article i realise how wrong i was. This is without doubt, a perfect building. I honesty cannot find anything wrong with it. The heights are dictated by the mature surrounding trees. The material, though modern, fit perfectly with its riverside location.
The building itself is fantastic.
The only problem i have is with what is inside it. Seems like an awful lot of money to spend for a college that is cutting services to students and postgrads by the day!
Also, if the aim of the gallery is to 'bring' art to the unclean masses of cork city, i have to say the cofee shop didnt quite get the memo. It's about 1 million euro for a cup of coffee and you have to wait to be seated!! Talk about up their own arses, go over to the student centre and get a cup of tea and choclate muffin...then u can admire the Glucksman out the window.

Radioactiveman!!!
Radioactiveman
Senior Member
 
Posts: 633
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:53 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby satanta99 » Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:59 pm

have to agree wit u on both of your points Radioactiveman. I can't find anything to complain about the building, but it is the lights on the walkway along the lower grounds which I am most impressed at. They flood the pathway with a white flouresent light, and they open up the path and make u want to go down and follow it. ALthough it has problems with security and muggings in this locations the installation of security cameras in this location should help to alleviate this. ( although I don't think CCTV is a replacement for natural surveillance i.e. real people etc, there is no other choice for the area which doesn't have any natural surveilance features) It is the view of this pathway from the western rd. that I feel gives the best impression of the project. Some people may not like the image which these lights create but they look to me like an runway for a spacecraft. Its reminds me of the stylistic features of such classic films as 2001 and clockwork orange. I don't know maybe I'm mad but its definately the illumination of the walkway that I find the best part of the project
satanta99
Member
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 10:06 pm

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby Radioactiveman » Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:58 pm

In a similair vein. what do people think of the new extension to the Museum in Fitzgerald park?
I'm still not sure about it. Haven't been inside it yet but the outside reminds me of the new x-ray building in CUH.
Radioactiveman
Senior Member
 
Posts: 633
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:53 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby dowlingm » Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:04 pm

Could it be that CIE were worried that the noise from bus and rail together would cause problems getting high value for the remainder of the Horgan's Quay site?

If a developer were to offer a development on HQ that integrated say an fully or partly underground bus station (local and regional) with a walkway to the platform which Mallow-Cobh-Midleton used, and asked to purchase the PP site, and got City Council and meeja on side, it would be hard to say no?
dowlingm
Member
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:49 pm
Location: Toronto, Ontario (formerly Cork, Ireland)

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby raster » Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:06 am

Radioactiveman wrote:Hi everyone,
I'm new to this site and not an architect, but interested in urban design and planning.
What do people think of the new Mahon point shopping centre in Cork? I got the bus down there at the weekend and nearly got run over by all the cars. They seemed to have forgotten the pedestrians when they were designing this thing....


Don't worry the current problem is that the traffic lights have been disabled (and so have the pedestrian crossing buttons) members of the gardai are being seen to direct traffic. understandably traffic is their primary concern and it is difficult enough to direct without allowing pedestrians to cross.

However I see difficultues even once the lights are turned on.

The pedestrian walkway which those alighting from the bus use crosses over an internal traffic lane, at peak times this slows down internal traffic flow as cars stop and start, lights/walkway would solve this IMHO.
raster
Member
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:57 am
Location: Cork

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby raster » Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:24 am

The back (South) elevation of the Bus Station actually looks nicer than the front (North)

The back looks complete, solid, the buses park at 30 degrees.
But the front is almost unchanged except for rhe "sails" canopy which is ok but the old multicolour glassbrick concrete slab canopy is still underneath it extending from the building, this remainder combined with the single glazed old windows on the front lets the building down on that elevation.
raster
Member
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:57 am
Location: Cork

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby Radioactiveman » Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:13 pm

raster wrote:Don't worry the current problem is that the traffic lights have been disabled (and so have the pedestrian crossing buttons) members of the gardai are being seen to direct traffic. understandably traffic is their primary concern and it is difficult enough to direct without allowing pedestrians to cross.

.

So, we shouldn't worry that nobody gives a toss, once the wonderful people in their lovely shiny cars get there in time. Don't worry about us pedestrian peasants, we'll try not to bother the motorists while we dodge the people carriers. Its just a pity Mahon Point doesnt allow the wonderful people to peruse the shops from the comfort of the car...missed opportunity there.
Radioactiveman
Senior Member
 
Posts: 633
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:53 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby jungle » Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:55 pm

Looking at the Anglesea St Garda station on the news last night, I started thinking that the building looked a bit grim. It's a bit like a cube with a balcony added on for a dictator to address crodws.
jungle
Member
 
Posts: 424
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:11 pm

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby MrX » Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:31 am

The Anglesea street garda station would look ok if it wasn't for the incrediably drab pebble-dash finish that was used on it. It would look far better if it were to be faced with stone.

That pebble-dash finish will look absolutely terrible in a few decades time as it starts to deteroriate and gather moss!


Re: Merchants Quay

That centre has to be one of the ugliest buildings in Ireland. I don't know what was there before but it completely destroyed that entire quay. If it were to be refurbished it would be really nice if they did something about creating more access from the quay itself and at the very least added attractive shop fronts. The red brick finish just looks cheap, tacky and doesn't fit in with the rest of the city at all.

As for the Quay on the other side. What can you say!? It is a complete and total mess. The back of the metropole is beyond hideous. None of the buildings in Cork, not even the UCC science bulding even come close to the ugliness of that. What makes it even worse is the fact that it's one of the most prominant positions in the entire city. That entire quay needs urgent re-development.

It could be a fantastic shopping area and a nice extension to the patrick's street project. If merchants quay was given a rather drastic face lift and a wide pedestrian bridge added half way along they quay.. i.e. at the existing entrance to the shopping centre. The opposite quay could be redeveopled... add some boardwalks, nice landscaping etc.. property prices would shoot up and the mess of tumble down buildings would soon disappear!

Dunnes Stores (North Main Street) and associated Car park..

Again, another absolutely disgusting monstrosity... Who ever gave this planning permission ? The Paul Street Shopping Centre Carpark is pretty bad, but at least it's now covered up by the developments on the quay side. The Dunnes Stores carpark just looks absolutely terrible.

As for Mahon Point's traffic problems... give them a little while, the CCC for some inexplicable reason has yet to programme the traffic light system.

They've put in a very sophisticated and expensive looking system of high level and low level traffic lights but as yet they're all still flashing orange!
For traffic coming from the Douglas side of the south ring this means that they have no priority when coming on to the intersection at the end of the off-ramp / slipway and it's creating very long and even dangerous tail backs back out onto the southlink.

The traffic coming from the East side out of the tunnel is moving quite well.

Thos lights SHOULD be on and working at this stage it's completely nuts that they arn't.... I wouldn't be supprised if it has caused several accidents as it's forcing people to negociate crossing several lanes of traffic.

The recent idiotic tunnel accident hasn't helped matters either.

Btw: regarding the tunnel : wouldn't it make a lot of sense to install a large metal structure the same height as the tunnel several meters before the entrance? I know they have automatic over-height detection systems and warnings but surely it would make some sence to hit a large metal pole rather than smash up hundreds of thousands of euro worth of electrical gear on the tunnel ceiling !?


Also re: Mahon Point - Retail mix.

I don't think the mix of shops is that bad to be quite honest. It's very focused on clothes retail obviously but I don't agree that it's targeting an exclusively female market. The centre has by FAR the best selection of menswear in Cork. The city centre's absolutely terrible for menswear.

Mahon Point menswear retailers: Zara, Next, Best, Lacoste, Debenhams, River Island, French Connection / FCUK etc.. (these are just off the top of my head).

It would be cool to see a few non-clothing stores open up in the centre e.g. maybe electronics/computers etc.. although I get the impression that we'll see a "big box" electrical retailer in the retail park. e.g. one of the UK ones.. There's a supprising lack of a large Curry's in Cork.

Is Harvey-Norman (Australian retailer opened in Dublin) likely to open here? Little island? Mahon?
MrX
Member
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:29 am

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby lexington » Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:17 pm

The owners of MQ (First Acive et al) have plans for a redevelopment of Merchants Quay Shopping Centre - but I am unaware as to their stage at the moment. It is a response by the fund-owners to compete with the near-by Academy Street development which is due to see an application lodged by OCP this Summer. Whether or not MQ goes ahead with this or not, I don't know. As much that I know, the plan will see an overhaul of the quay frontage - which will fall in line with a possible quay improvement by CCC in the coming future. This may see quayside stalls, boardwalks, cafes etc (mere assumption). An additional floor will be added for increased retail space - something M&S have indicated they would favour (possibly for their own expansion purposes). The multi-storey will, in a joint initiative with owners, Roches Stores, be revamped, extended and some of the existing structure given over for additional retail space and a communal green area. The Patrick's Street frontage will be remodelled and incoporate the additional floor overhead. I haven't seen any plans - this is all word of mouth - but it makes sense as MQ will have to refurbish if it is to compete against at least 3 major new city centre retail developments which are already threatening to take existing MQ tenants from the centre (e.g. Gasoline & Adams). I for one, would favour the balance and the much needed aesthetic revamp. MQ is only recently after refurbishing its interior to celebrate its 15th anniversary and Cork's reign as Capital of Culture.
lexington
Old Master
 
Posts: 1327
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:31 pm

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby Radioactiveman » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:21 pm

Everyone should welcome any moves to improve Merchants Quay, both the shopping centre and the streetscape itself.
I'm not sure i agree with MRX's disparaging remarks about UCC Science building. It's a creature of it's time and as such isn't that bad. The lecture theatres (before they were 'remodelled' were the best in college for their job). Compare them the the boole basement- too hot, and sound quality appalling. The labs are spacious, bright and well maintained. Outside it has an imposing facade but it's no worse than many buildings of its time.
Leasve the science building alone- its not that bad, really!
Radioactiveman
Senior Member
 
Posts: 633
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:53 pm
Location: Cork, Ireland

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby MrX » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:35 pm

Well, the inside of the Science building's not too bad given its age. But you have to agree it's hardly what you'd might call attractive looking from outside.

The new lecture theatres look nice but are unfortunately suffer from very impractical seating the desks are extremely high and uncomfortable.
MrX
Member
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:29 am

Re: Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc.

Postby mickeydocs » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:46 pm

My favourite lecture room in college is the lecture room in the old geography building...

I must admit that I was very impressed by the students centre :)
mickeydocs
Member
 
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:56 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Ireland



cron