Zap the childrens shop - High Street

Zap the childrens shop - High Street

Postby Paul_9000 » Fri Mar 02, 2001 8:36 pm

As a person who walks frequently along High Street, between Christchurch and Thomas St., I really want to see the pram shop building removed. What would be left would be a great street scape betweens Molloys Pub and St.Audeons Church. It would mark a great beginning to Thomas St which the government has such great plans for, doing as much as the StoreHouse at the other end and StCatherines restoration in the middle do to improve the Liberties.
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Postby GregF » Mon Mar 05, 2001 11:31 am

Hi Paul,
Can you remember High Street before it was a dual carriageway....when it was a compact little street before the road developers got their hands on it in the 1970's /1980's.When it was a more uniform street .....where buildings once stood on St.Audeons landscaped park and the back of Tailors Hall was hidden. There are photographs of how it once looked.
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Mon Mar 05, 2001 2:34 pm

My earliest memories of High Street is with both sides pulled down or about to be for the new dual carriageway. I agree with Paul on the pram shop that it should be removed btw.
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Postby Paul_9000 » Tue Mar 06, 2001 2:07 pm

My earliest memory would have been after
most of the building were cleared,
Interesting that it's been called a dual
carriageway, resonates with industrial
landscapes rather that a city street.

I'm not sure there's a need for the divide
in the road. Take Champs Elysses in Paris,
far more traffic, wider road plus proabably
more aggresive driving style, but there not
a divide in the centre.
I believe the corporation should do away with
these and instead make a real effort to make
the likes of Patrick st and Cuffe St. tree
line avenues. The visual affect of trees just
does not seem to be understood by the powers.
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Mar 07, 2001 10:47 am

Primarily the central island seems to act as a refuge for pedestrians trying to cross the road. My sister works in Tailor's Hall and the complete area is a nightmare for pedestrians, the traffic islands at Cornmarket are a warren, to cross the street involves about three traffic islands and 10 minutes.

I agree that removal of the central island, widening of pavements and planting of mature trees would be a definite improvement.
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Postby JL » Thu Mar 08, 2001 8:26 pm

The whole place is a tragic disaster area - this was the heart of the medieval city after all. Ripped out by a dual carriageway - and then the replacement buildings - aargh. that cuckoo clock beside tailors hall (Ambrose Kelly I think), the BKD Jury's hotel

Unfortunately bad architecture has a long half life
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Postby Paul_9000 » Fri Mar 09, 2001 12:51 pm

The place may be a disaster but it can still
be improved,
the new Coombe bypass will give the opportunity to make it more Pedestrian
friendly.
As for the central Island being a refuge
for pedestrians, It just encourages people
to dash accross the road at any point
rather than at the crossings.

As for Jurys, they may find a critical
structural fault and have to pull the
whole thing down.
Otherwise let Ivy run free on it's exterior.
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Postby Drawingboard » Fri Mar 09, 2001 1:07 pm

Do you know something about Jury's that we don't? Image
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Postby Rory W » Tue Mar 13, 2001 1:43 pm

I remember the derelict buildings of Christchurch place from when I was younger. Does anybody remember a factory/warehouse where Jury's Inn is now. It had "BE_AB__" on the side the _ indicate where the letters had fallen off - the font it was in was very 50s sort of like the old ESB lettering. Any answers to that one.

I also remember Wood Quay/Winetavern Street being just hoardings. Dublin was so grim then wasn't it?
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Postby Siobh » Sun Mar 25, 2001 3:40 am

Nooooo, not Murphy's!!! Don't do it!! That's where my Mum & Dad bought my pram when I was born!!!

Sob!!

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Postby Zap » Fri Jul 18, 2003 5:22 pm

I remember the building which was located on the site of the current Jury's Christvhurch. A quite horrible 1950's building that for its last years (or certainly all I remember) was derelict. Beside it was the site of the vehicle imound lot - amazing to think they the Corpo sited this opposite the oldest building in Dublin!

Anyway, don't remember the letters on the building but its image is ingrained in my head - I always thought it was awful even as a child and was quite relieved when Jury's replaced it (bad as it is, it was a whole lot better!).

The building resembled the ugly Corpo offices right beside the Fitzsimons hotel on the quays.
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Postby alastair » Sat Jul 19, 2003 3:25 pm

the typeface on the building was Profil if memory serves:
http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/linotype/profil/

I was just remarking a couple of weeks ago how the 'old city' part of temple bar had changed from it's days as the mobile library yard.
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Postby paul_moloney » Mon Jul 21, 2003 10:04 am

I'm amazed that the Pram Shop inspires such hatred. I think it's kinda cute, and a hangover from Old Dublin. I'd love to see it preserved in some fashion, while every modern building on High St is reduced to rubble. Am I simple contrary?

On this note, does anyone have an old pictures of the area? (High St, Christchurch Place, etc). I'm now living on Castle St, and would love to know how the area looked years ago. I'd be specially curious to see pictures of where Jury's now stands, and also if any exist of Archbishop Usher's house, where the Castle Inn now is (I believe it was only knocked down in the 40s, after remaining their for 500 years).

Cheers,

P.
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Postby Zap » Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:56 pm

In the book Heart of Dublin, there are engravings of the site of Jury's Inn, which I think held the name Skinners Row.

The Pram Shop is due to be demolished shortly - the Planning Application is already on the build stating that a residential block is to replace it.
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Re: Zap the childrens shop - High Street

Postby gunter » Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:22 pm

Thanks for the directions, notjim.

If this isn't the right place, it can be moved yes?

I started a bit of a file on High Street in the early 90s, when I hadn't much else to do, and I just found it again under something, so before I loose it again, here are some of the photographs I had accumulated.

Image
High Street c. 1975. The four bay building on the left is the 'Bedding Manufacturer' from the earlier (How well do you know Dublin) pic.

Image
Aerial view of the same terrace from c. 1984
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Re: Zap the childrens shop - High Street

Postby notjim » Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:06 am

Amazing pictures and terribly sad; I love when churches are sunk like that into a streetscape, it so medieval, so atmospheric, so true to a folkish religion knotted up in quotidian demands of secular life.
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Re: Zap the childrens shop - High Street

Postby gunter » Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:42 pm

notjim wrote: . . so true to a folkish religion knotted up in quotidian demands of secular life.


I was just going to say that!

Here's another photograph of the east end of High Street in 1963 with, if I'm not mistaken, ctesiphon's dad on his bike off to buy icecream for the chizzlers in the local shop.

Image
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Re: Zap the childrens shop - High Street

Postby newgrange » Sat Aug 30, 2008 1:09 pm

What is that structure out from the front of one of the buildings?
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Re: Zap the childrens shop - High Street

Postby gunter » Sat Aug 30, 2008 2:50 pm

That was the way they used to do scaffolding newgrange, back in the day. Floor joists would be taken out, put on edge and stuck out the windows, the inside end wedged under the floor above and out you went, with your life in your hands.

The date of that one is slightly wrong, must have been late 1964 at the earliest, because there is a firm date of Sept. 1964 on this Paddy Healy photograph of the same houses from the top of Nicholas Street showing no. 3 High Street (the house with the scaffolding) still intact while the rest of the street looks like a bomb hit it.

Image

Apologies for adding a couple of years onto ctesiphon's dad.
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Re: Zap the childrens shop - High Street

Postby Pot Noodle » Sat Aug 30, 2008 3:53 pm

I know this is off topic but can anyone tell me about the Iron bridge over the Strawberry Beds on the Castleknock side

Many Thanks in advance
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Re: Zap the childrens shop - High Street

Postby notjim » Sat Aug 30, 2008 4:11 pm

http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=824

control-k to get into your google search window and then "site:http://www.archiseek.com strawberry beds"
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Re: Zap the childrens shop - High Street

Postby newgrange » Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:24 pm

gunter wrote:That was the way they used to do scaffolding newgrange, back in the day. Floor joists would be taken out, put on edge and stuck out the windows, the inside end wedged under the floor above and out you went, with your life in your hands.

Crikey.
I was a 1963 baby - I hope my ma kept me well away from those things.
Thanks gunter.
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Re: Zap the childrens shop - High Street

Postby Pot Noodle » Sun Aug 31, 2008 7:47 am

notjim wrote:http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=824

control-k to get into your google search window and then "site:http://www.archiseek.com strawberry beds"


Cheers for that;)
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Re: Zap the childrens shop - High Street

Postby Devin » Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:13 am

gunter wrote:Image
High Street c. 1975.
Thanks for these pictures gunter. Fine Wide Streets Commissioners terrace. The existence today of Murphy’s Prams on the same building line shows that there was no need to demolish it at all.

We know that the terrace was built in the early 19th century because there’s a map dated 1817 published in McCullough’s An Urban History showing the Commissioners’ ‘hitlist’ in the Christchurch & St. Patrick’s area, and a straggly group of buildings in this location are included.

Murphy’s Prams got permission in 2005 for demolition and new 4-storey glazed building - Ref. 1697/05. Elevations in ‘View Documents’. No sign of anything happening.


gunter wrote: this Paddy Healy photograph of the same houses from the top of Nicholas Street showing no. 3 High Street
Paddy Healy was taking pictures of crucial streets at a crucial time. Some of the most interesting photos in Pearson’s The Heart of Dublin are his. His photos of Winetavern Street, Bridge Street, the south quays and High Street show a whole city that’s simply gone …
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Re: Zap the childrens shop - High Street

Postby gunter » Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:49 pm

Devin wrote: Fine Wide Streets Commissioners terrace. The existence today of Murphy’s Prams on the same building line shows that there was no need to demolish it at all.


That's a good point Devin. Three of these houses had some rough repairs to their upper facades with some pretty dodgy window replacements, but, in general, the photographs show that they were in sound condition with not a hint of settlement to the roofs or back walls.

Image

Image

The loss of this terrace removes any definition to the north side of the space that once was Cornmarket. Tinkering around with the traffic islands is not going to restore a sense of place here. I keep hearing that DCC have a plan to 'improve' Cornmarket, but until the Bridge Street junction is reduced to maybe a third of it's present sweeping width and a building line restored from here to the forecourt of St. Audoen's (R.C.), I think they're wasting their time (and our money).

This is a copy of Brownrigg's map of 1799 with medieval Cornmarket still clearly defined as an urban space.

Image
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