Cork's 500m euro North Ring Motorway

Cork's 500m euro North Ring Motorway

Postby lexington » Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:30 am

The NRA, Cork County Council and Cork City Council have held a public consultation seminar (15th December 2004) in the Kingsley Hotel regarding the proposed 500m euro 17km North Ring Motorway.

The Motorway will complete the full motorway orbital of the city as outlined in the Cork Area Strategic Plan 2001 - 2020 (CASP).

The existing Southern Network runs as so - Jack Lynch Tunnel -> N25 (South Ring Road - incl. Mahon Point, Rochestown, Douglas, Kinsale Road Roundabaout, Togher, Wilton, Bishopstown and as a result of the new 100m Ballincollig By-Pass - officially open next week, Curraheen and Ballincollig).

The planned North Ring will run from Ballincollig (or Curraheen), passed Kerry Pike, via Blarney Area, via Mallow Road (N20), via Glanmire to link up with the N8 and complete the loop.

The proposal is controversial for a number of reasons - its routing options all threaten notable beauty spots or green belt areas, a number of scenic vallies and vistas will be interrupted and 3 of the 4 options included substantial motor-vehicle tunnels under quiet residential districts.

Though I recognise the economic and logistical need for such a motorway - I am disappointed at the lack of foresight when considering such route options. And again, why are we spending so much money on 'the car'? It really isn't the way to go - we need to be investing in better public infastructure in our citizens - and by this I mean, suburban rail, intersuburban transit systems, canopied pedestrian zones and routes etc etc. Fossil fuels will be diminished come 30 years - the what have we got? Hydrogen? H emissions are not non-existent - reduced in comparison to fossil fuels - but not 0. Well - putting my eco-conscience to one side -> what are your feelings?

Please find links to the Cork North Ring Motorway route options and maps below. (apologises for poor scanner quality)

1. http://img159.exs.cx/img159/3572/cnrr12qd.jpg
2. http://img134.exs.cx/img134/5922/cnrr28qd.jpg
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Re: Cork's 500m euro North Ring Motorway

Postby bunch » Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:10 pm

had a look at the proposed routes, and i do think that the city needs a northern ring route badly - this will be essential as an integral part of the city and region's strategic network and will have a major role in the rebalancing of the city - physically and economically. However, it will only benefit the city if it is delivered in conjunction with the proposed suburban rail service from midleton/cobh via the city to Blarney/Mallow. It could assist in delivering an essential part of CASP - the re-focussing of the city north and east and would greatly encourage the realsisation of Monard as a new urban centre and railway station development.

the south ring route is already at capacity and the kinsale road flyover will not improve movements around the city to any great degree.

btw lexington, the environmental costs of tunnelling are relatively minor in comparison to the alternatives of cutting through those city ridges at kerry pike/lee valley. also these 3 options may be more acceptable in terms of the impact on archaeology. route d (the only one that doesnt include tunnelling) is sited far too close to the northern city suburbs and would become an M50 equivalent within 15 years and effectively a distributor road with more and more junctions added as time goes on and development pressures swallow the route.
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Re: Cork's 500m euro North Ring Motorway

Postby anto » Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:17 pm

This is a device for opening up more land for development , suburban car dependent suburban bliss. This money would be far better spent on public transport, How many bus lane does Cork have? Does Cork have any light rail/dart? Engineers love to imagine orbital routes as if it will solve everything. Remember road building usually brings more traffic not less
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Re: Cork's 500m euro North Ring Motorway

Postby lexington » Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:31 pm

That's my opinion also to an extent.

It's M50 part II. However, Cork County Council are fiercely protective of their green-belt area through which part of this huge motorway will be constructed.

Currently Cork has approx. 7 dedicated green-routes (buses, emergency vehicles and taxis only) - but these only serve suburbs of Mahon, Bishopstown and Ballyvolane. Much more needs to be done.

Currently, the suburban rail network only serves Glounthane and Cobh - the Midelton line is under development. Plans are only under feasibilty stage for Ballincollig and Bishopstown suburbs. Perhaps PPP could help? But judging by the Cork School of Music...that's suspect.

The loop is needed, but the route???
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Re: Cork's 500m euro North Ring Motorway

Postby Frank Taylor » Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:39 pm

lexington wrote:The NRA, Cork County Council and Cork City Council have held a public consultation seminar (15th December 2004) in the Kingsley Hotel regarding the proposed 500m euro 17km North Ring Motorway.
Nice. A €500m subvention to the developers who will build warehouse retailing at the motorway junctions and Tallaght-style sprawling housing estates. When it fills up with traffic about 30 minutes after it's been constructed you can then plan for adding the extra lane and butterfly flyovers at a cost of 9 trillion or whatever. Does Cork have the self confidence to be different from Dublin rather than slavishly repeating the capital's mistakes in slow motion?
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Re: Cork's 500m euro North Ring Motorway

Postby CTR » Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:36 pm

the capital's mistakes? yeah I agree the M50's junctions were badly designed but so were all motorways / dual carriageways up until recently (think traffic-lighted hyper roundabouts!).

where would Dublin be without the M50? It's absolutely vital. just as I'm sure the orbital road in Cork will prove to be.
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Re: Cork's 500m euro North Ring Motorway

Postby Mob79 » Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:23 pm

Frank Taylor wrote:Does Cork have the self confidence to be different from Dublin rather than slavishly repeating the capital's mistakes in slow motion?

Cork spits it's tea at the monitor in simultaneous shock
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Re: Cork's 500m euro North Ring Motorway

Postby d_d_dallas » Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:06 pm

I don't know how anyone could compare road planning in Cork to the utter disaster that is Dublin! Seriously, there is no comparison. If the Dublin LA's collaborated and planned the way the LA's in Cork do - we'd have no problems in the Pale!
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Re: Cork's 500m euro North Ring Motorway

Postby Frank Taylor » Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:57 pm

What is the purpose of a ring road?
I would have guessed it was to allow the city to be bypassed by traffic crossing through at any angle. In a small town on the junction between several roads connecting larger urban centres this makes sense as the majority of cars are through traffic. But Cork is on the South coast so the only major through traffic flow direction is East-West and this has already been bypassed with the southern motorway and JL tunnel.

What proportion of traffic on the M50 is really bypassing Dublin? Much of the capacity of this road is taken up with local journeys between residential and work places that were only built because of the ring road. Building the road created the demand for its use by encouraging unsustainable, car dependent housing estates and warehouse retailers.

Many US cities have built ring road highways with junctions to several interstates. They have found that this is a recipe for sprawl as the city starts to develop along the spines of these roads.

As an alternative to building a northern motorway in Cork, I'd suggest spending the money on high-density, low-rise pedestrianised towns along the Cork-Midleton rail corridor. No cars within 5 minutes walk of the stations and parking around the periphery. You could also extend the line West past Kent Station so that it had a more central terminus.
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Re: Cork's 500m euro North Ring Motorway

Postby kefu » Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:26 pm

Frank wrote: "Much of the capacity of this road is taken up with local journeys between residential and work places that were only built because of the ring road."
Just out of curiosity, how exactly would Dublin function without the M50. For instance, should somebody living in Dundrum travel through the city centre to get to the airport? Should a truck driver going from the Airport to Dun Laoghaire use the quays?
Are you furthermore suggesting that these "residential and work places that were only built because of the ring road" would not exist if not for the M50.
If so, where exactly would these people and businesses have based themselves. Another country perhaps?
Pretending that these many thousands of cross-city journeys do not exist in Dublin does not serve any purpose.
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Re: Cork's 500m euro North Ring Motorway

Postby Frank Taylor » Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:01 pm

kefu wrote:Just out of curiosity, how exactly would Dublin function without the M50. For instance, should somebody living in Dundrum travel through the city centre to get to the airport?
He has to drive because we chose to build motorways rather than rail lines. The plan was to build a metro between Shangannagh and the Airport via Dundrum. He could have completed his journey without generating traffic.
Should a truck driver going from the Airport to Dun Laoghaire use the quays?
For the last few miles of most freight journeys trucks have to be used - there's no getting away from that. The major freight hubs, ports and airports should be connected by rail. We made a strategic decision to run down railfreight in favour of road.Hauliers are not expected to pay for the port tunnel and motorways.
Are you furthermore suggesting that these "residential and work places that were only built because of the ring road" would not exist if not for the M50.
If so, where exactly would these people and businesses have based themselves. Another country perhaps?
The land area taken up by building car dependent Tallaght, Clondalkin and Blanchardstown was wasteful. In hindsight it would have made more sense to develop smaller denser towns along the Maynooth, Kildare and Northern rail lines leading into Dublin. This is what I suggest Cork does rather than follow Dublin's lead.
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Re: Cork's 500m euro North Ring Motorway

Postby PVC King » Fri Dec 17, 2004 9:13 pm

I agree with Frank there is definitely a case for upping the weighting towards rail transport in Dublin.

However as far as discussing the M50 as being comparable with Cork it isn't a runner as far as I'm concerned. Cork already has its owm M50 in the form of the Southern relief road.

To complete this ring road would in fact be more comparable to building an Eastern Bypass to link the Port Tunnel with Sandyford. To this end and given that the existing rail infrastructure in Cork is All north of the river I reall feel that rail would offer more viable option and would certainly cost less and preserve more of the Green Belt.

There is a new forum over on http://www.platform11.org entirely dedicated to Rail transport in Cork.
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Re: Cork's €500m North Ring Motorway

Postby Jack White » Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:31 pm

lexington wrote: The planned North Ring will run from Ballincollig (or Curraheen), passed Kerry Pike, via Blarney Area, via Mallow Road (N20), via Glanmire to link up with the N8 and complete the loop.

The proposal is controversial for a number of reasons - its routing options all threaten notable beauty spots or green belt areas, a number of scenic vallies and vistas will be interrupted and 3 of the 4 options included substantial motor-vehicle tunnels under quiet residential districts.

Well - putting my eco-conscience to one side -> what are your feelings?


Thats great news a full orbital motorway, this will make Cork a much better place to get around, all tree huggers should be shot on sight. Holding up the the progress of the growth of Cork how dare they.
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Re: Cork's €500m North Ring Motorway

Postby PVC King » Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:40 pm

Jack White wrote:Thats great news a full orbital motorway, this will make Cork a much better place to get around, all tree huggers should be shot on sight. Holding up the the progress of the growth of Cork how dare they.


Wow, its hard to argue with such a well thought out post, Jack White for Taoiseach
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