Tolkien Home Listed by Minister

[PVC King]

http://www.rte.ie/arts/2004/1124/tolkienirr.html

Any thoughts?

[Paul Clerkin]

The heritage value of the property is based on the value that you place on his writing.
Personally I believe it to be glorifed fairy tales for people who refuse to grow up.... so I guess I'd rate the heritage value as nil

[PVC King]

Well I guess I'll never grow up then,

Although The film was just too sentimental for me, I much prefered the books as you can put them down and return much more easily as they must be one of the more patiently written popular culture trilogies. I felt the films were rushed and if they had much more treacle in them I would have puked.

But on a more serious point it just shows how proactive governments can be in protecting 'social culture' which I suppose it is fair to say is entirely based on peoples taste and rarely will everyone agree on.

[alan d]

Diaspora, spookey, eh? I knew you'd be a Tolkien fan

Think I mentioned it in an earlier posting

[PVC King]

Alan,

I hope you didn't think I got my entertainment from Playstations or worse going out with the gang for pints,

Seriously I'm no Tolkien freak, I like the book and I think this situation provides a great illustration of a government intervening to protect culture that has fallen through the cracks of conventional legislative protection.

[space_invader]

I find the cultural spotlight focused on places where books have been written to be of little value - unless the location has a particular bearing on the book's content.

The place books are written, is in the head. S'where all texts are written. I could understand it if the book was Justine, and the author the marquis de sade: his imprisonment and the nature of the space he was confined within had a real influence and bearing on the aesthetics of his works. There is a definite line to draw in the instance. But the Tolkein thing.......

This kind of approach to 'our culture' is akin to all the extra shite 'they' stuff into DVD's these days. It's superflous cack that adds little (and often takes away) to the main event. I don't care if there are enough people in interested in JRR's exact position when he wrote Lord of the Rings - to me, it's highlighting an irrelavancy and adding nothing to British culture.

[PVC King]

I find the cultural spotlight focused on places where books have been written to be of little value - unless the location has a particular bearing on the book's content.

The place books are written, is in the head. S'where all texts are written. I could understand it if the book was Justine, and the author the marquis de sade: his imprisonment and the nature of the space he was confined within had a real influence and bearing on the aesthetics of his works. There is a definite line to draw in the instance. But the Tolkein thing.......

I agree with you on the point that there must be a relationship between the content of the work and the step to list a building, that is why we haven't pushed the fact that Bob Geldof wrote the song Rat Trap in Bewleys, although I'm sure that Geldof wouldn't have written it in a lesser quality cafe.

The point I was trying to make with the listing of Tolkiens House was not that it must have been listed but rather that buildings other than those of exceptional architectural merit are being listed in other juristictions on the basis of social or cultural grounds. Bewleys is the Cultural Icon of Irish cafes indded if it goes there will be no outstanding heritage cafe left after Lydons of Galway closed recently.

How would you feel if the Willow Room cafe were to close in Glasgow?

[space_invader]

Bewleys is far more of a Dublin institution than Willow rooms is in Glasgow. Personally, i wouldn't be bothered if willow room closed because its a bit of a joke the noo, anyway. a tacky jewelry shop occupies the ground floor and the sense of occasion within is palpably underwhelming. the whole tea-house thing in glasgow has been dead for years.

Shame that Bewleys is shut. my mum is from dublin and it was one of the first places she took me to see when I travelled to the city as a child. i agree - re: geldof!

Anyway, yeah, you make a good point: it is interesting that buildings are being listed now for their social or cultural input above and beyond architectural merit. And I think its true that people have a fascination with place and like to associate memories with spaces, streets, buildings etc. - I just don't think listing is the way forward for this kind of cultural recognition.

[alan d]

[quote="Diaspora"] Bob Geldof wrote the song Rat Trap in Bewleys, although I'm sure that Geldof wouldn't have written it in a lesser quality cafe.


Ha Ha mate, very funny.........where'd all the other crap get written then, I wonder?




Willow Tea Rooms ?

Don't know anyone who visits the Willow Tea Room ..other than pensioners and tourists. It's a mock up, a stage set

[gweilo]

I have to say I did find this somewhat sentimental. I thought listing was about architectural value. Puzzled why a blue plaque would not have been sufficent for the urban archeologists. House is so unremarkable you'd miss it otherwise.

Anyone know how much of a recreation the Willow tea rooms are? I have never stooped to taking tea in it (though apparently its amongst the best in the UK) but I have dragged visitors in there after a Glasgow school of Art visit as its worth it to show the contrast between the Art school library and the Salon de Luxe. The bas relief panels on the ground floor are incredible though as they show how ahead of his time MacIntosh was. As good as post First World War Vorticist work but predate that movement by a decade. Effect is spoiled by the tacky jewellery shop though.

[space_invader]

glasgow massif in da house! oo oo oo oo ! ! !

gweilo: vorticist, you say? really? must go look again.

I love those crazy fascists!

[gweilo]

Its true!!! There is something very Jacob Epstein about them. Just remind me of his work...
It's a shame they are lost amidst all the tat.

Do the jewellers own the lease and sublet it to the tea room folk? Was surprised they opened the Willow Tearoom's Buchanan Street branch (never been, but that really must be a shameless pastiche!) rather than taking over Sauchiehall Street completely.

[space_invader]

is that not another distant memory, 'dog skuffing the grass efter daein a shite' type thing going on, re: buchanan st.

was there not a miss cranstons round there at some point?

you know what, Glasgow should reinvent itself as the

City of Tea!

Lipton came from the Gorbals efter aw.

And what the new gen, like Nambarrie coming through.....

Hey, Nambarrie could become the new Costa - open tea hooses all o'er the world.......

[gweilo]

Ha ha ha! Yeah too right. Shamless ploy to ensnare the tourists who can't be arsed walking up to Sauchiehall Street. But...

was there not a miss cranstons round there at some point?

Indeed there was. Right next door. The former 'flemish' Clydesdale Bank Building was originally Miss Cranstons Buchanan Street branch. It's only a facade retention though. For some bizarre reason the interiors were demolished in the 60's and a brutalist concrete structure inserted into the shell. Why you'd go to the expense of doing this to something so small I have no idea. However, the new structure is supposed to be pretty good but I've never seen them. Nike have the lease on it now (I think) so hopefully they'll do something quite funky.

[space_invader]

oh really?

I remember the clydesdale had quite a groovy 60's james coburn jet-set style interior - then bradford and bingley trashed it with an ultra-bland 90s fitout.

So, interested yo see what Nike do. This could potentially be awful, tho.

[gweilo]

Mini Nike world. Ever been in their London Oxford Street store?. In yer face but still the most vacuous lifestyle selling effort I've ever seen. So much space.. so little merchandise.

[space_invader]

Nikemare!!!

[gweilo]

'A Nikemare on Buchanan Street '

Perhaps?

Nah! Doesn't have the same ring to it