Luas Central - Which Route?

Luas Central - Which Route? I would prefer...

Route A
114
37%
Route B
127
41%
Route C
25
8%
Route D
27
9%
Route E
14
5%
 
Total votes : 307

Postby d_d_dallas » Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:03 pm

Reading in the Sunday Papers that new transport minister Cullen wishes to link the two Luas lines via Dawson/College Green/Westmoreland St. Obviously this infers a massive amount of traffic being banned from these parts, hence would allow for partial pedestrianisation, ala proposals for Stephens Green at Grafton St end.
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Postby vinnyfitz » Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:24 pm

Originally posted by d_d_dallas
Reading in the Sunday Papers that new transport minister Cullen wishes to link the two Luas lines via Dawson/College Green/Westmoreland St. Obviously this infers a massive amount of traffic being banned from these parts, hence would allow for partial pedestrianisation, ala proposals for Stephens Green at Grafton St end.


I saw this claimed on the front of the Sunday Times. It was a very mediocre bit of journalism though. Was it reported more credibly elsewhere or was this just a kite?
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Postby phil » Mon Nov 01, 2004 12:37 pm

There is a piece in todays Irish Times about linking the two Luas lines
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Postby d_d_dallas » Mon Nov 01, 2004 3:23 pm

As sloppy as the journalism was - nothing compares to the gross ineptitude of the handling of Luas - essentially we will end up with the original 1981 CIE scheme almost exactly as planned. But in un-necessary phases and years later than needed. Red Cow Roundabout (and it's kind) all over again. The govt really needs to start believing in the concept of build as designed with no compormise. Aure an extra 50m at the time is alot... but a whole lot better than 500m down the line.
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Postby Jack White » Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:03 pm

A good day for Dublin Transport,

A piece in the Sunday Business Post has stated that the so called Interconnector has now moved to phase 2 in the Dublin transport jigsaw. The question is when will phase 2 be formally announced?
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Postby Rory W » Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:45 pm

Are we in phase one???
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Postby urbanisto » Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:47 pm

Is phase one all about chatting vaguely about something while compiling detailed financial projections for the project... on the back of an envelope of course.

A few comments on Newstalk 106 y'day suggested that the Luas could go underground from Dawson Street to Westmoreland Street under Trinity. A bit expensive I would have thought. Having had a good look at the area today I think that there are definately serious considerations regarding the suitability of Nassau St, Grafton St and College Green for the trams. They are very narrow and where will the bus routes go? Theres a genuine problem here.

Also I think this story goes to show that despite all the rhetoric the Government have absolutely no master plan for an integrated transport system in the city. Its all multi-agency reports that take no account of each others plans or perspectives. Not enough private sector input (apart from consultants of course). And little or now actually political will to commit to a plan and push it through.
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Postby notjim » Tue Nov 02, 2004 6:20 pm

what about s king street, s william st?
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Postby Rory W » Tue Nov 02, 2004 6:44 pm

What about Sth King Street - Drury Street and Demolish eircom building at end of Drury Street and run Luas through to Dame Street to emerge where Snap Printing is (so we ain't knocking anything older than late 80's here). Makes for a new vista facing onto Central bank plaza.

Opens up Drury Street to luas trade, allows Buses etc to deal with the Grafton/Nassau street issue, creates new street (retail opportunities) as well as new view of Central Bank as well as finding use for Sth King Street!!

What do you think?
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Postby phil » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:50 am

Originally posted by Rory W
What about Sth King Street - Drury Street and Demolish eircom building at end of Drury Street and run Luas through to Dame Street to emerge where Snap Printing is (so we ain't knocking anything older than late 80's here). Makes for a new vista facing onto Central bank plaza.

Opens up Drury Street to luas trade, allows Buses etc to deal with the Grafton/Nassau street issue, creates new street (retail opportunities) as well as new view of Central Bank as well as finding use for Sth King Street!!

What do you think?


Rory W,

Can you be a little more specific as to where you want the route to go? Are you saying bring it along South King Street, followed by Stephens Street Lower then down Drury Street? Where would you take it after the intersection with Drury St and Exchange Street? There is alot of tight corners to be taken in that area.
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Postby Rory W » Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:26 pm

Phil - read the post. Im saying knock the buildings between Exchange street and Dame Street i.e. Eircom & Snap printing thus creating a new street as such
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Postby phil » Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:38 pm

Does that Eircom building run all the way to Dame Lane?
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Postby Rory W » Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:45 pm

Yep
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Postby phil » Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:56 pm

Originally posted by Rory W
Phil - read the post. Im saying knock the buildings between Exchange street and Dame Street i.e. Eircom & Snap printing thus creating a new street as such


Rory W,

When I first read your original post on this matter I was confused because you seemed to be giving the impression that the buildings which face you at the bottom of Drury Street are modern 1980s buildings. The buildings at the bottom of Drury Street on Exchequer Street are called the Exchequer Chambers and were built in 1901 (according to the sign over the door). The other buildings either side of these seem also to be from late 19th or early 20th Century stock. There are alot of Eircom Buildings behind it and they face onto Dame Lane as you said. I just went out to look at the buildings facing you at the bottom of Drury Street because I could not recall the 1980s buildings you were referring to. The older stock don't appear to just be facades as they can be seen from Andrew's Lane. Were you referring to this section of the street are were you referring to somewhere else? Finally, and I am not being smart here, there is no need to take the "Phil - read the post" tone when you are not making yourself fully clear.
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Postby PVC King » Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:00 pm

Originally posted by phil


The buildings at the bottom of Drury Street on Exchequer Street are called the Exchequer Chambers and were built in 1901 (according to the sign over the door). The other buildings either side of these seem also to be from late 19th or early 20th Century stock.


Those buildings are quite intact inside and whilst there is some case for putting the Luas on a route other than College Green; Drury St and South King St is not the way to go.

Personally I think the Luas should go the original route as the drawings are done and it is only a question of submitting an application for a time extension of the original application.

If another route is to be considered I would favour Dawon St onto Nassau St, Lincoln Place, Westland Row Pearse St and College St.

It is longer but it could serve to open up Pearse St as an attractive development location again. The way it is; is an utter disaster almost 1km of entirely dead frontage, even fireworks has closed down.
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Postby tommyt » Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:31 pm

that exchq st./drury st route would cost at least €100m in c.p.o.'s and thats never gonna wash with the RPA.Yeah eircom own that whole block(including the shops on that section of exchq st and the offices above) and it is huge, you can get a good look at it from the eircom (not the public) car park entrance beside Andrew's lane theatre.Have often wondered what eircom plan to do with the site....The Pearse st. idea is a good one,TCD and the corpo have been running that neighbourhood down for years
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:07 am

TCD may be affected by Luas link line
Tim O'Brien



The Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) may seek to have the walls and railings of Trinity College Dublin moved back at Nassau Street and lower Grafton Street to accommodate the proposed Luas link line through the centre of the city.

The agency said yesterday that there were difficulties in accommodating both Luas and buses along the narrow central city streets around the college, and while it "would have respect for the built environment", the RPA "wouldn't rule out moving the wall and railings to take land".

The RPA would have to seek a railway order from the Minister for Transport before proceeding with such a proposal.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2004/1104/2756841846HMTRINITY.html
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Postby burge_eye » Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:27 am

Originally posted by Paul Clerkin
TCD may be affected by Luas link line
Tim O'Brien



The Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) may seek to have the walls and railings of Trinity College Dublin moved back at Nassau Street and lower Grafton Street to accommodate the proposed Luas link line through the centre of the city.

The agency said yesterday that there were difficulties in accommodating both Luas and buses along the narrow central city streets around the college, and while it "would have respect for the built environment", the RPA "wouldn't rule out moving the wall and railings to take land".

The RPA would have to seek a railway order from the Minister for Transport before proceeding with such a proposal.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2004/1104/2756841846HMTRINITY.html



that's the end of that idea then
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Postby phil » Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:30 am

There is not only railing along that section of Trinity. There is also that coach house just inside the railings at the corner of Nassau Street and Grafton Street.
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Postby notjim » Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:49 am

so the thing is we are taking the buses as a given and trying to reroute the luas, maybe this is the wrong way around. do 30% (or whatever) of Dublin Bus services really have to come that way? is there are rule against having buses anywhere in sight of Leinster house? can more buses use Pearse Street, particularily if TCD opened up a more obvious cross College pedestrian route (hopefully without knowing down N&bros).
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Postby Rory W » Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:04 pm

The 80s building I referred to is on Dame Street (Snap Printing) ok so its a refurb of the 1960s office block that stood there before (and became Dublin's first derelict office block in the late 70s early 80s). My point was none of the remaining victorians on Dame Street would have to be touched.

The Drury Street/Exchequer street building I am think of is Central Hotel chambers accessed from Dame Court (the bit with the horrible mirrored glass bit on the ground floor). Its the one next door to Markeys shop - if memory serves.

I know it ain't going to happen but just a suggestion.
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Postby Devin » Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:53 pm

I feel it's important that Luas goes through College Gn. The 3 elemnts of beautiful historic buildings, a public space and trams going through creates a certain special something in european cities.
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Postby phil » Thu Nov 04, 2004 6:14 pm

Originally posted by Rory W


I know it ain't going to happen but just a suggestion.


Yep ;)
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:57 pm

Originally posted by Devin
I feel it's important that Luas goes through College Gn. The 3 elemnts of beautiful historic buildings, a public space and trams going through creates a certain special something in european cities.


I tend to agree with you.
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A letter in today's Times:

Postby vinnyfitz » Thu Nov 04, 2004 8:12 pm

A chara, - There is much talk of the linking-up of the two new Luas lines through Dublin city centre. The obvious solution is for Trinity College to let the Luas through its grounds at Nassau Street.

The Luas could then proceed up Tara Street and across Butt Bridge to link up with the Red Line in Abbey Street.

This solution would be cheap, and would open up the vista and atmosphere of Trinity College to the ordinary people of Dublin.

The students and staff would have to put up with some little disruption, but the sacrifice of their cloistered peace would be much appreciated by the rest of us. - Yours, etc.,

MUREDACH DOHERTY, Lower Beechwood Avenue, Dublin 6.
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