The Park, Carrickmines

The Park, Carrickmines

Postby Andrew Duffy » Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:25 pm

This is a new proposal for a site beside the South-Eastern Motorway. Basically a retail warehouse place, with a 16 storey "apart-hotel".

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/commercialproperty/2004/0114/971924428CPCARRICKMINES.html

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=302&si=1108131&issue_id=10302

Time for more highrise-bashing? This place has no public transport.
Attachments
the_park_carrickmines.jpg
the_park_carrickmines.jpg (40.61 KiB) Viewed 5579 times
Andrew Duffy
Senior Member
 
Posts: 565
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Postby FIN » Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:47 pm

i like this one. much better than the other post. not sure it's high rise though. it's only 16 storeys
FIN
Senior Member
 
Posts: 826
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2001 12:00 am
Location: dublin

Postby stira » Thu Jan 15, 2004 3:58 pm

Why does every building proposed here have to be 16 storeys?
stira
Member
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:32 pm
Location: Dublin

Postby kefu » Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:46 pm

I love this line in particular.

"This follows a study by Management Horizons Europe which found there is a "significant undersupply" of high quality, four and five-star hotels in south Dublin compared to other European cities."

What's that supposed to mean? i thought there was only one "south Dublin"
kefu
Senior Member
 
Posts: 665
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Dublin

Postby Andrew Duffy » Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:50 am

I must have forgotten to update this - this was approved by the council in July and is currently under appeal (06D208365). The decision must be due soon.
Andrew Duffy
Senior Member
 
Posts: 565
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Postby phil » Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:08 am

'Highrise' or not, that scheme looks dire. It looks like your typical placeless landscape plonked down at the side of any motorway anywhere.
phil
Old Master
 
Posts: 1467
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 12:32 pm

Postby d_d_dallas » Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:15 am

Lack of public transport here is irrelevant as the taller element is purely for design purposes rather than density.
On what grounds was this appealed - please don't say height was the reason. This isn't next to some delicate georgian masterpiece.
Relative height (relative to other parts of the same development) as a design element should be encouraged. Other wise we are heading for more North Docklands blandness. In the absence of new churces to punctuate the skyline, we need something to excite the eye!!!
d_d_dallas
Senior Member
 
Posts: 850
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2003 2:27 pm
Location: Ireland

Postby phil » Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:33 am

The North Dublin Docklands is the exact blandness that this reminds me of. Apart from the one taller tower every other building seems to be of uniform height etc.
phil
Old Master
 
Posts: 1467
Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2003 12:32 pm

Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:30 pm

barrack like formation....
User avatar
Paul Clerkin
Old Master
 
Posts: 5418
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 1999 1:00 am
Location: Monaghan

Postby Irishtown » Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:16 pm

Boring layout! The high-rise looks nice. Don't know how well it will age, though.
Irishtown
Member
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed May 19, 2004 5:59 pm

Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Sep 08, 2004 11:48 pm

Oh come on, the whole thing is boring and uninteresting...
User avatar
Paul Clerkin
Old Master
 
Posts: 5418
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 1999 1:00 am
Location: Monaghan

Postby GrahamH » Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:35 pm

It's a clone of Mayor Street.
GrahamH
Old Master
 
Posts: 4580
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:24 am
Location: Ireland

Postby Irishtown » Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:10 pm

Originally posted by Paul Clerkin
Oh come on, the whole thing is boring and uninteresting...


I never said it was exciting, original or interesting. Just nice. Chill out, Paul.
Irishtown
Member
 
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed May 19, 2004 5:59 pm

Re: The Park, Carrickmines

Postby Andrew Duffy » Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:14 pm

This scheme was recently approved after an appeal against its original approval.

http://www.pleanala.ie/cse/208/a208365.htm

Notable things from the report, if you don't have the time:

- The tower is 71m high, with a 20m antenna on top of it
- The IGS appealed to ensure the pale ditch was unaffected
- An Taisce appealed solely based upon the height of the tower
- The developer is required to provide a dedicated bus service between the development and the Sandyford Luas stop until two months after the extension to Cherrywood opens
- ABP disregarded the observer's recommendation that the tower be made more slender
Andrew Duffy
Senior Member
 
Posts: 565
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: The Park, Carrickmines

Postby GrahamH » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:11 pm

Did they?

12.12: "I do however have some reservations about the bulk of the proposed tower and in particular of its proportions. As stated earlier it has a width of 30m and length of 50m and height of 67.5m -71m. As such even when viewed from the narrow side, it does not have the ¼ width/height ratio which makes a tall building elegant"

Condition:
"The footprint of the proposed tower block shall be reduced by reduction of its width and length by 10m each"

Reason: "in the interest of visual amenity"


I'd go along with this, proportionally, the building is too bulky to adequately distinguish itself from the rest of the scheme - a problem one can see in many similar schemes on the outskirts of Birmingham etc.
I find a tall building necessary for a scheme such as this (not that the one proposed is anything fantastic), but as the report points out:

"The employment zone buildings by necessity are bulky structures, with similar heights (13-17.5m), and are usually surrounded by large expanses of car parks. As a result they usually create rather monotonous and sometimes windswept urban-scapes, inhospitable as pedestrian environments. In this case location of bulk of the car parking underground, provision of pedestrian links and hard and soft landscaped open spaces, help improve the general layout, and the quality of the space"

"The tower building with a height of 67.5-71m and located within a relatively large open space and as a vista at the end of pedestrian routes would in my view provide a much needed relief from the monotony referred to above"
GrahamH
Old Master
 
Posts: 4580
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:24 am
Location: Ireland

Re: The Park, Carrickmines

Postby GrahamH » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:23 pm

Ah sorry, inspectors rec - pretty obvious graham! :o
Think it's something that should have been followed through on though
GrahamH
Old Master
 
Posts: 4580
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:24 am
Location: Ireland

Digging up this old thread

Postby damcw » Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:08 pm

This caught my attention today

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/rebels-pass-d18-shops-rezone-plan-2136865.html

Rebels pass D18 shops rezone plan
By Maeve Galvin

Wednesday April 14 2010

COUNCILLORS have defied the Environment Minister in moving to rezone a shopping centre development in Carrickmines.

The move to extend the retail development at The Park, which is just off the M50, goes against the Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council's development plan, which was signed off on last Thursday.

Following a debate at last night's council meeting, councillors passed the motion to vary the development plan and provide for a district centre by 15 votes to 13.

This flies in the face of Environment Minister John Gormley's orders last month that directed the council not to rezone the Carrickmines land.

Several councillors spoke out against the move. Labour councillor Richard Humphreys, a barrister, told the chamber that the move "wasn't a lawful motion".

He said: "There is a legal obligation to comply with the minister's regulation.

"In addition this would undermine the Cherrywood development and negatively impact on this council's interests. I feel that it would be ludicrous and making a mockery of this council for us to pass this."

Fine Gael's Tom Joyce, Jim O'Leary, Barry Ward, John Bailey and Maria Bailey, and independent councillor Gearoid O'Keeffe put forward the motion, which aims to extend the retail land in Dublin 18 by 10,000sqm.

It also proposes to reduce the retail land at the Cherrywood development by the same amount.

Proposers of the motion said that they had been approached by developers who want to put in amenities such as a cinema, supermarket, leisure centre and restaurant, which would create 800 jobs.

Councillor Jim O'Leary said that the move was in the interest of creating jobs for the county.

Council management now plans to seek legal advice and report back to the council on the issue.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0413/1224268227522.html

Council votes to rezone land at Carrickmines for retail
FIONA GARTLAND

COUNCILLORS IN south Dublin have voted to begin a variation to rezone land for retail development in Carrickmines despite a ministerial order directing them not to increase retail in the area.

Minister for the Environment John Gormley directed councillors on Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council not to rezone land at The Park, Carrickmines, off the M50, to increase its retail space when they created their county development plan last month.

Councillors complied with the Minister’s direction order, but yesterday, following a heated debate, they voted to effectively overturn it.

Fine Gael councillors Tom Joyce, Jim O’Leary, Barry Ward and John and Maria Bailey, along with Independent councillor Gearóid O’Keeffe, tabled the motion to increase retail zoning at Carrickmines by 10,000 sq m and simultaneously reduce retail zoning at Cherrywood, also off the M50, by 10,000 sq m.

Councillors had come under pressure from developers at both centres.

The Carrickmines developer, Park Developments, had promised 800 jobs and a “guaranteed” anchor tenant, as well as interest from other retailers should the motion be passed.

The Cherrywood developer, Dunloe Ewart, had threatened legal proceedings should the motion be passed. It said it had already spent €28.6 million on infrastructure in Cherrywood.

Speaking in defence of the motion, Cllr Tom Joyce said he had been contacted by a delegation of business people who said they would like to put in a cinema, supermarket, leisure centre and restaurant at The Park.

“These people are ready to start operations immediately,” he said.

He believed the development was sustainable.

Cllr Jim O’Leary questioned why Mr Gormley “interfered” in the county development plan.

Cllr Barry Ward put on the record that he was “beholden to no one”. He was satisfied rezoning Carrickmines was the right thing to do.

However, Labour councillor Aidan Culhane said the motion was “utterly shocking and appalling”. It was a plan to build another shopping centre on the side of a motorway. “I find it staggering that councillors would do this . . . in Carrickmines of all places after all it’s been through in planning terms.”

His Labour colleague, Cllr Denis O’Callaghan, said he detected “a palpable smugness, arrogance and contempt” for the work carried out by the council in the last two years.

Cllr Richard Humphreys said there was a legal obligation to comply with the Minister’s order and increasing retail at Carrickmines would “emasculate” Cherrywood and damage the financial interests of the council, which owns some land at Cherrywood.

Cllr Victor Boyhan said whatever councillors did the Minister would invoke his powers under the legislation and was entitled to do so.

Councillors voted 15 to 13 to accept the motion.

County manager Owen Keegan said he would take legal advice about the decision, and return to councillors with a report on how they could proceed with the steps to vary the development plan.



I don't know what to make of this situation!

I can't understand why the council would be looking to change their own development plan, which is only a week old!

What is to be gained by zoning in Carrickmines (Google Map)? Is it not the antithesis of proper sustainable development. The Luas will run near by but the whole area has been designed for the motorcar. There's a time and a place for retail parks, but I really don't think Dublin needs any more of them right now!

Considering that in the past year DLR councillors have re-opened Dun Laoghaire main street to cars in a bid to help the struggling businesses there, the fact that they are now looking to zone new out-of-town retailing doesn't make sense. And it's not just Dun Laoghaire; Sandyford and Stillorgan are in an awful state commercially as well.

On top of all this, these councillors are trying to push development at Carrickmines at the cost of Cherrywood (Google Map), which apparently is a project that the council itself has an investment in.

I watched a little bit of the debate (video here) and I did not see anybody in favour of the Development Plan contravention speak about the urban design or sustainability merits of the proposal. The attitude seemed to be that we should zone it because there's a few jobs in it.

I'd love to hear some opinions on this. Particularly on Cherrywood VS Carrickmines.
damcw
Member
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:03 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: The Park, Carrickmines

Postby hutton » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:12 pm

Can we please re-title this thread to

"Quarryvale Nua, Carrickmines"?

Noting Justice Fergus Flood referred to Carrickmines previously, and prior to this particular controversy as "the epicenter of planning corruption in Ireland", it appears nothing has been learnt. Good to see the Jackson Way Junction is now providing rise to yet more mess.

It is hard to escape the assessment that the tribunals have purely been a slow-release valve, which by not imposing significant sanction, have done nothing to deter what is at best ill-informed and irresponsible decision making by elected representatives. So lets make sure to name and shame them, again:


Fine Gael councillors:

Barry Ward

Tom Joyce

Jim O’Leary

John Bailey

Maria Bailey


and of course not to forget:

Independent councillor Gearóid O’Keeffe,




Shame on them, Shame, shame, shame :mad:



I also note as reported by Fiona Gartland in the Irish Times that, “councillors had drafted the variation themselves without the benefit of legal advice”.

And we wonder why the Blueshirts are no different to the MaFFia?

There is clearly now no significant credible political party in Leinster House who can give leadership in whom we can have faith. Leadership without legitimacy is an oxymoron.
hutton
Senior Member
 
Posts: 993
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:14 pm
Location: NAMA HQ

Re: The Park, Carrickmines

Postby damcw » Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:04 pm

Hutton I completely agree with you.

Just on the behaviour of Fine Gael councillors, I really don't hold any political allegiances but I've recently been noticing some really bad stuff going on.

Here is shocking stuff from one of the pro-Carrickmines zoners above, John Bailey (FG), and his daughter Maria Bailey (FG).

Donations had 'no bearing' on planning decision, says FG councillor
http://www.tribune.ie/archive/article/2010/jan/24/donations-had-no-bearing-on-planning-decision-says/

John Bailey says planning objection 'went missing'
Mark Hilliard
Janury 24, 2010

Image
(Image added so you'll know which faces not to vote for at next election!)

A FINE Gael councillor said that thousands of euro in donations from two companies behind a controversial development had no bearing on his failure to object to its go-ahead.

John Bailey told voters he had objected to An Bord Pleanála over the controversial redevelopment of the old Dun Laoghaire Golf Club, but the appeals body later confirmed it had received no such correspondence.

It has since been revealed that Bailey, who sits on Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown Council with his daughter Maria, received financial donations from both the developers in question and its estate agent ahead of his unsuccessful 2007 general election bid.

Bailey said he now accepted his objection had gone missing, but that when contacted by the Sunday Tribune, he re-sent the documents as an observation. The deadline has passed for objections. "These things can happen in the post but it's most unusual," he said.

Bailey also enclosed a new submission cheque but said his bank was still looking into whether or not the initial one to An Bord Pleanála had ever been cashed.

Cosgrave Developments and Hooke & McDonald, both of whom are behind the contentious development, gave Bailey donations of €2,500 each ahead of the general election.

However, he denied that this in any way compromised or affected his ability to object to the project.

"I am totally independent and totally impartial. I am there to represent people," he said. "Everybody has to do fundraising for the elections. I have never shirked from whatever I have had to say. I am not bought or beholden to anybody."

Bailey was unclear as to whether he had sought the donations directly or whether he had been approached by the companies.

"I can't tell you off the top of my head but you do whatever you can during elections," he said.

Bailey circulated leaflets to around 100 constituents, local to the golf course site, stating that he had filed the objection to An Bord Pleanála.

The objections would also have been also flawed in that Bailey made reference to two separate planning applications in the letter, which has been seen by the Sunday Tribune. Such a move is prohibited by An Bord Pleanála rules. "If I did that I made an error," he previously conceded.

The plans for one of the two developments in question is still with the local authority and so an appeal to An Bord Pleanála was premature.

The development currently before the board relates to 605 residential units on the site off the Glenageary Road Upper and Eglinton Park, Dun Laoghaire. The application, still with the council, refers to a separate but related development at the old bowls club.


I have more examples but I don't want to get too off topic.

Back to Carrickmines. I have been reading back through other articles over the past month about the rezoning. Here is one where Ciaran Cuffe gives some reasons why zoning Carrickmines is contrary to good planning.

Minister stresses importance of new town before vote on rezoning

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0412/1224268137650.html

FIONA GARTLAND
Monday, April 12, 2010

PROPOSALS TO develop a new town at Cherrywood, south Dublin, are to be brought to Government within weeks, the Minister for Sustainable Transport and Planning has said.

Green Party Minister Ciarán Cuffe said the proposals would ensure proper facilities would be developed side by side with homes and businesses at Cherrywood, a 361-hectare site between the M50 and the N11.

He made his announcement before a controversial rezoning motion comes before Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council today to reduce retail zoning at Cherrywood and increase it at Carrickmines, also off the M50.

If the motion, tabled by six councillors, is passed, it will initiate a variation of the Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council Development Plan. It will also countermand an order by Minister for the Environment John Gormley not to increase retail zoning at Carrickmines.

Mr Cuffe said yesterday that developer-led zonings were running the danger of undermining millions of euros in infrastructure investment and the creation of thousands of new jobs over the next decade.

He said the Strategic Development Zone (SDZ), the planning framework that will create the new town at Cherrywood, would provide the bedrock for sustainable economic development and job-creation. It would also allow for fast-tracked planning.

Mr Cuffe said the new town, when fully developed over 10 years, would provide 12,500 homes and 18,000 jobs.

“The proper infrastructure – including a new Luas line with five stops in Cherrywood which will open later this year – has been put in place. It has the potential to create a vibrant, dynamic new town in south Dublin.”

He was concerned the SDZ would be undermined by the Carrickmines motion, on which councillors will vote today.

“I have deep concerns that, because of the employment situation in Ireland at present, councillors and politicians are falling victim to the old claim of jobs being promised as long as a zoning takes place,” he said.

“Trading a zoning for a promise is not good planning and is consistent with past practices of light-touch regulation and pure and simple cronyism that got our country into its present difficulties.”

Councillors have also come under pressure from the developers of both Carrickmines and Cherrywood, who wrote to them on Friday.

The Carrickmines developer, Park Developments, has promised 800 jobs, a “guaranteed” anchor tenant as well as interest from other retailers should the motion be passed.

The Cherrywood developer, Dunloe Ewart, has threatened legal proceedings should the motion be passed. It said it has already spent €28.6 million on infrastructure in Cherrywood.


At this moment, all I can say is thank god we have a Green as Minister for Environment to stop these braindeads from destroying south county Dublin.

Just who are our councillors working in the interests of? I would like to see if any of the councillors listed by Hutton have received donations from Park Developments. As I pointed out, John Bailey has previous in that kind of thing.
damcw
Member
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 4:03 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: The Park, Carrickmines

Postby thebig C » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:58 pm

Jesus H christ. All this cribbing over 10,000sqm! That is about the size of your average district centre which comprises usually an anchor supermarket such as Dunnes or Tesco along with 10-20 smaller shops such as Chemists, florists, Dry Cleaners etc!!

I can't believe all the moaning about this considering the substantial ammount of retail warehousing already on site and land zoned for offices and a hotel, which won't be built now! It makes a bit of sense to locate a supermarket here rather then at another greenfield site. Granted there are alot of issues with this and other land around Carrickmines!

This development is just accross the bridge from Foxrock. There is actually no full line supermarket there. This is perhaps the closest site. Unless you "ecomentalists" would rather people drive gas guzzlers further to shop!

Also, the political egde to some of the posts is sickening. All development is not bad! And don't make me laugh about your attempts to cannonise Gormley. He has at this stage broken so many promises and principles that he really is sinking lower then his FF bedfellows.....and previously I thought that would be impossible!
thebig C
Member
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:55 pm

Re: The Park, Carrickmines

Postby hutton » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:49 am

thebig C, how can I put it this politely, given your "ecomentalists" reference - oh just fuck off.

It makes a bit of sense to locate a supermarket here rather then at another greenfield site


And why does it naturally have to be another greenfield site? Why can there not be urban renewal instead? Because one thing is for sure, if this cheap shite goes ahead, it makes urban renewal less economically viable.

66 shops have closed in Dun Laoghaire over the last two years - as reported in today's Sunday Tribune

thebig C, you are talking out your backside. While you may once have had a future as some poncey pen-pusher working for a local authority where the local gombeen greedy county manager wanted to chase a development levy - and so drop planning standards in the process - the days of your type are finished. Get over it. You are a disgrace and affront to civic society. Go figure.

Anyhow rant over, I notice that 2 of the FG councillors voted against, including the former PD Mary Mitchell O'Connor, as interestingly so too did another former PD, the environmentally progressive Independent Victor Boyhan

Yet also of note, all of the four MaFFia councillors voted for this scheme - so why does John Gormley and his GP mates not lay into them as well? But then perhaps raising this with their government partners might be as popular as a game of pass-the-parcel in a Belfast pub. Of course the GP are hypocrites to not do so, but nothing new there. The Dun Laoghaire maFFia are getting far too easy a ride, running contrary to supposed central government policy of which their party is the main partner. This in actual fact just underlines my earlier point that there is clearly now no significant credible political party in Leinster House who can give leadership in whom we can have faith.

Finally independent maFFia councillor Tony Fox also voted for the Quarryvale Nua; dear old Tony used to be a full maFFia member, but you see 'tis a bit awkward with all that Tribunal malarky.... Ah sure Leopardstown racecourse can also be accessed from the Jackson Way Junction, which surprisingly might have been an accidentally good bit of planning - just in case anyone's ever in a rush to explain where they suddenly came into a bit of cash. Yes the symmetry is perfect - the Jackson Way Junction and the racecourse; perhaps Bertie might someday give his mates an 'ol digout and cut a ribbon here to commemorate the pinnacle planning achievement done under his leadership :)
hutton
Senior Member
 
Posts: 993
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:14 pm
Location: NAMA HQ

Re: The Park, Carrickmines

Postby Frank Taylor » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:55 am

If you need some groceries in Foxrock, you just send the au pair up to Thomas's to pick up some organic champagne or truffle oil. http://www.thomasoffoxrock.ie/index.html There is a pharmacy, dry cleaners, restaurant, boutique, wine bar etc in the village.

If you are a pleb living in postal Foxrock and you need some baked beans or poptarts, your house is likely located beside Dunnes Stores in Cornelscourt where your every lumpen need may be catered for 24/7.

However, if you are a speculator, who owns a landbank off Glenamuck Road and you want an excuse to get your fields rezoned for housing, then you will want to make friends with a few of the local councillors so that they can zone you up a bunch of retail in a field outside Carrickmines.

John Bailey is a very decent man with a life devoted to honesty and integrity and you can read his various saintly exploits here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bailey_(Irish_politician)
Frank Taylor
Senior Member
 
Posts: 530
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:38 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: The Park, Carrickmines

Postby hutton » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:57 am

FF removes 'bribes' councillor from ticket

Conor McMorrow

A Dublin councillor who was named in court as a beneficiary of bribes from former government press secretary Frank Dunlop will not be running for Fianna Fáil in next month's local elections.

Tony Fox has been taken off the party ticket in the Dundrum ward for Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council by strategists in party headquarters.

It is widely believed that Fox would have been re-elected as he has a strong reputation as a dedicated worker in the area. This is despite being named in court proceedings last November when Dunlop app eared at Dublin District court to face corruption charges.

A Fianna Fáil spokeswoman said: "Tony Fox hasn't been selected to represent the party on this occasion." The names on the party ticket in Dundrum are Councillor Trevor Matthews, Tony Kelly and Aoife Brennan, daughter of the late Séamus.

Brennan (30) is set to follow her father's footsteps into politics with her bid to get elected to Dun Laoghaire Rathdown County Council where she already works in a customer relations role.

Fox was not available for comment on his political future when contacted by the Sunday Tribune.

Dunlop has pleaded guilty to the charges of making corrupt payments to a number of members of Dublin City Council and Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown county council between 1992 and 1997.

A CAB detective told Judge Cormac Dunne during an initial hearing last November that Dunlop had told gardaí on the day he was charged: "We always knew this day was coming and I will not be contesting the charges."

Fox was named in five of the 16 charges along with Seán Gilbride, Jack Larkin, Cyril Gallagher, Tom Hand, Don Lydon, Colm McGrath, and Liam Cosgrave.

Dunlop's sentencing hearing is expected to take place on 18 May, ahead of the local elections on 5 June.

May 3, 2009
hutton
Senior Member
 
Posts: 993
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:14 pm
Location: NAMA HQ

Re: The Park, Carrickmines

Postby thebig C » Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:08 am

Hutton, perhaps the "ecomentalist" tag was undeserved in your case. However, I do feel it actually applies to certain elements who are definately against any form of development. The current economic decline just plays into their hands and raises more excuses for objecting to any form of development.

I agree with you that many aspects of planning in Ireland stink to high heaven. I just don't think this is one of them. Its perhaps natural, but regretable, that after the shenanigans of the past any Councillors involved in rezoning are now smeared.

In my opinion, whilst over development and corruption are obviously bad. The kind of extremist anti-rezoning, anti-highrise anti-everything policies that alot of Councilors have made a career of can be just as damaging!

The big push is to establish a retail/town core at Cherrywood, once the Luas is completed. However, given Liam Carrols financial situation, potential litigation regarding the site, question marks over Government ownership and the recession, nothing will be built there for a long time. In fact, despite Gormley pontificating about Cherrywood being appropriate as the designated growth centre, attempts in recent years to begin to develop this area in line with increased public transport have actually been stymed by none other then the Green Party and An Taisce. Both of whom strenuously objected to office developments on the grounds of height!! And were successful.

My point was. At 10,000sq/m its a very small development in a Dublin context. We are not talking about a potential Liffey Valley or Dundrum. If The Park ( such an imaginative name) is already a destination for certain types of retailing, why not also include a supermarket as an option. That will actually save in terms of car journeys.

Lastly, I am not a planning official. Nor am I employed in the property industry or a developer. Heaven forbid:)

C
thebig C
Member
 
Posts: 199
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:55 pm

Re: The Park, Carrickmines

Postby hutton » Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:10 am

Frank Taylor wrote:If you need some groceries in Foxrock, you just send the au pair up to Thomas's to pick up some organic champagne or truffle oil. http://www.thomasoffoxrock.ie/index.html


Ah yes - the liver paté I recommend, and they do a damn good chocolate cake also; certainly beats the political fudge one is used to elsewhere in this borough :)

Frank Taylor wrote:John Bailey is a very decent man with a life devoted to honesty and integrity and you can read his various saintly exploits here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bailey_(Irish_politician)


Oooh lovely. There's the "Fake endorsement letter incident" - which his running mate Eugene Regan described as "totally dishonest"... then there's the "missing golf club planning objection", and there's even an internal blueshirt row that ended in a high court row regarding a legal action over candidate selection. And that's before one looks at his other activities outside politics, in the world of , er, sport:

Bailey tabled a motion of no confidence in Dublin manager Tommy Carr in February 2001. His motion failed, yet his public statements during the following months strongly supported Carr's position as manager - even to the point of denying that the no confidence motion had ever taken place. On October 1 2001, Carr was removed as manager during a club meeting where the vote was tied and required Bailey's casting vote as chairman. Carr then confirmed that Bailey had been trying to remove him for the previous 8 months while publicly supporting him. The Dublin Senior Football Team stated they felt
"obliged to respond publicly in a bid to reverse the move, and highlight the lack of integrity involved in the due process...Honesty is demanded from anyone who wears the Dublin jersey. We expect it from our selectors and from our manager. Should we not, at least, expect honesty from our officials?"


Don't we have such lovely fellows as our elected bureaucrats :)
hutton
Senior Member
 
Posts: 993
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 10:14 pm
Location: NAMA HQ

Next

Return to Ireland