Smithfield, Dublin

Smithfield, Dublin

Postby Jas » Wed Mar 10, 1999 9:29 am

I see as part of the rejuvenation of the area and the large development at Smithfield, that they intend placing two viewing platforms on the former distillary chimney to allow for views of the city.
Jas
Member
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 1999 1:00 am

Postby Pat Marron » Wed Mar 10, 1999 3:09 pm

Its an interesting idea but will the chimney take the weight and how will one get up?
Pat Marron
 

Postby Mrs. M. J. Lister » Tue Apr 06, 1999 6:23 pm

A similar idea was mooted a few years back to save the cooling tower in Tullamore, but in this case the chimney was to have a glass top for veiwing and painted to look like a pint of Guinness.
Mrs. M. J. Lister
Member
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 1999 1:00 am
Location: No Fixed ABODE

Postby Duq » Fri Sep 10, 1999 11:35 pm

As a former site engineer at Smithfield I can tell you that, yes, there's going to be a viewing platform on top of that chimney. It'll be all glass, and there will be a lift to get to the top. The view must be spectacular up there, but knowing who's building it I wouldn't risk my life going up......

Duq
Duq
Member
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 1999 12:00 am
Location: Dublin

The Smithfield Plaza is not enough

Postby neligan » Sun Mar 26, 2000 3:09 pm

I work quite close to the new square at Smithfield, and I am not impressed. I think it should stretch back to Blackhall place, creating a real plaza and a remarkable vista. Dublin doesn't have a real plaza, and is in dire need of one. Take a walk around the area, and particularly around the corner to Blackhall, and you'll see what I mean.
neligan
Member
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2000 1:00 am
Location: Dublin

Postby Paul Clerkin » Sat Apr 29, 2000 1:21 pm

Nice idea, but you're really talking about a form of ethnic cleansing, moving an entire community elsewhere. Neither fair nor tolerable in this day and age. A hundred years ago or more, it would have been easy.

Scale wise, it would be horrific, the length os Smithfield stretching as far as the Law Society would be huge, worthy of a militaristic regime.

The old photos of Blackhall Place with the two terraces either side framing the Law Society are a real eye opener - they led the space scale and a certain dignity which is now all gone.

[This message has been edited by Paul Clerkin (edited 29 April 2000).]
User avatar
Paul Clerkin
Old Master
 
Posts: 5427
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 1999 1:00 am
Location: Monaghan

Postby pzipzina » Mon May 01, 2000 1:17 am

I think that both of you are making valid points as I too feel that Dublin needs a plaza or central gathering area. Central
Bank was one for the youth of Dublin but was considered by the employees of the building to be hazardous. Now the young people attempt to gather in other sqaures in Temple Bar that are designed almost purely for the tourist trade (squares surrounded by expensive shops and restaurants that young people cant afford to). In other cities like Civic Centre in San Fransisco or the Fontana di Trevie in Rome (well from there to the icecream shop on the corner of one of the adjoining streets!!).

Smithfield would be perhaps an ideal location for a meeting area but perhaps it would do would take away the areas identity and historical relenvence in Dublin.
pzipzina
Member
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon May 01, 2000 12:00 am
Location: England

Postby ty » Tue May 02, 2000 4:43 pm

What about the finest public space of them all in Dublin - College Green? A parliament building and a university facing one another across a grand, chaotic, ordered, kind of multi-symmetrical space is almost Hellenic, yet Georgian... and higgledy-piggledy.

And what do we do with it? Send 40,000 cars a day through it. Will I be 10 years buried before this space is treated with anything more than contempt? Does anyone out there realise the importance of this space? It is Dublin's drawing room.
ty
 

Postby Peter Fitz » Wed May 03, 2000 8:02 pm

I have to say i agree about College Green, it is a fine space and has great potential, but unfortunately has all that bloody traffic rushing through it every day. The fact that College Green is one of the cities main arteries means that even a reduction in the number of traffic lanes is highly unlikely. By the way, those trees around Grattan's statue are a big mistake, they cover up half of trinity college, the statue itself and serve only to clutter up the whole space (not that i have anything against trees of course, just put them in the right place!)

[This message has been edited by Peter FitzPatrick (edited 03 May 2000).]
Peter Fitz
 

Postby pzipzina » Wed May 03, 2000 11:13 pm

I think that the so called finest public space that you are talking about is not actually a fine sapce. It is the buildings around College Green that make it so prominant. It will not be until they make the centre of Dublin completly pedestrianised that they would be able to make this area a meeting square. Dame Street and West Morland Street are two of the busiest roads in the city centre and to try to pedestrianise this area would be near impossible. The disruption that it would cause around the rest of the city would be incredible. The road network in Dublin is not near satisfactory. Definitly a jumble of interconnecting routes leading everywhere!!
In my opinion, if it was possible it would be great to make at least some of the area car free giving inhabitants and visitors to the city a haven free of polution, both chemical and noise, and make it a much more pleasent place to be. If you are interested in fighting the domination of cars in cities, you might be interested in a march that is happening on the 27th of May. if you want more information Ill mail it to you! Fight for the right for our feet to use the streets again!!!!
pzipzina
Member
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon May 01, 2000 12:00 am
Location: England

Postby Rory W » Mon May 08, 2000 3:57 pm

I remember reading a nutty idea in the late 1980's in the Irish Independant Property section about how they were going to put the roads into tunnels under College Green and pedestrianising the area. I personaly think that if the public transport infrastructure was in place that there shouldn't be a need for any traffic (except buses taxis and emergency vehicles) between the canals in Dublin, but because the Government (local and national) get ferried in by Chauffer driven Merc (except for the occasional photo opportunity) there is no incentive for them to do so. Also the fact that they listen to the whinging car lobby all the time. The one thing I noticed in London was when you pressed the button to cross the road the lights changed to suit you almost instantly whether it was in the "city" or the main shopping areas, why we have to wait up to 110 seconds to cross each side of college green is ludicrous.

Rory W

Oh yeah, if we had Smithfield turned into a square as far as the law society it would look bloody awful, you can almost see the tanks and the pictures of Chairman Mao.....
Rory W
Old Master
 
Posts: 1331
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2000 12:00 am
Location: Drogheda & Blackrock

Postby David W » Tue May 09, 2000 7:31 pm

I definitely think College Green should be made a pedestrian space. The Bank of Ireland and Trinity College West front are very important buildings, but their gravity cannot be appreciated. This could be a popular tourist space. I think access from Dame Street could be a good idea, so without encouraging through traffic, the area stay bustling.
As for Blackhall Place, I can't say I know the area too well, but I know the Law Society headquarters and that deserves more attention. What happened with the Central Bank was a disgrace, but that's what happens when you have so many nightclubs nearby.
David W
 

Postby MG » Sun May 28, 2000 9:29 pm

Smithfield should have been extended to the river..... removing one apartment block would have sorted that....
MG
Senior Member
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2000 12:00 am
Location: London

Postby JK » Mon May 29, 2000 12:59 pm

Re: Smithfield

Too much talk about extending and increasing the overall area of Smithfield!!.

The real problem here is that the works carried out to date eg; monumental lighting standards, subdivision of the public square by a myriad of bollards and slip roads not to mention the poor standard of finish (eg; galvanised folded plate on the standards and hard cement grouting to the re-laid cobbles) have caused a disimprovement in what was a very intact urban space, not to mention the removal of horse troughs without replacement.

I live and work in a building overlooking the square and am not at all happy that the 'revitalised' square is all that its cracked up to be.

Granted the intentions of all concerned were good but the result are all too typical of the 'architecturalisation' of existing urban space. Resulting in monumental 'pomp and splendour'which really achieves little.

However if you think that the footprint and lauout / design of the elements within the square are the only problem think again.

Horan Keoghan Ryan and Simon J Kelly architects have submitted planning applications fro two of the the most aggressively overscaled and ill conceived schemes to have been seen in the centre city for the west side of the square, elements include a 24 storey tower, an eight / nine storey 'museum' six, seven and eight storey apartment blocks, a 10 storey office building.

Overall impact upon the square, not to mention the skyline of the city will be disastrous, overshadowing of the square will occur for most of the day from mid afternoon, the three storey scale of Queen street will be overwhelmed and the existing Heritage Homes Distillery development on he opposite side of the square will be of 'toytown' scale by comparison.

If you want to see a really 'greedy' schem and weep, don't miss this one!!!.
JK
 

Postby Tom Jones » Mon May 29, 2000 3:22 pm

Large civic spaces, can work!!!
Travelling throughout the South of France, I was fortunate enough to see beautiful, well planned towns. French planners have a vision, a grand design. Why not think bold in Dublin.
Smithfield square could extend to the Law society. I'm sure our French couterparts wouldn't be afraid of such a challenge.

The trick is to engage the human element and to enable access. e.g. (Underground carparking beneth the square; Improved public transport; Walkways and lighting to the market areas; Tax incentives to open retail and entertainment outlets. Clustering of activities.

Why not copy the French?
Tom Jones
Member
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon May 29, 2000 12:00 am
Location: Dublin

Postby Jas » Mon May 29, 2000 7:08 pm

There isn't much in the area either, one average church of Ireland with semi-interesting school, lots of derelict late georgian / victorian buildings, and some really bad and very dodgy looking corporation flats. Perhaps razing the area may not be a bad idea.


It would be enourmous, and perhaps the burners would look in scale then.
Jas
Member
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 1999 1:00 am

Postby Ivar L » Mon Jun 05, 2000 5:23 pm

The Smithfield Plaza design won a shared first prize in the competion held for "European Public Urban Space". The competition is organized by the Centre de Cultura Contemporània de Barcelona and L'Institut Francais d'Architecture; and the prize-ceremony is to-day in Barcelona. For more information go to http://www.cccb.org/ingles/cccb.htm and see the other winning project (from Spain) and the honorable mention project also from Spain.
Ivar L
Member
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:00 am
Location: Trondheim, Norway

Postby studqub » Thu Aug 31, 2000 5:49 pm

Any images of new scheme on other side of square
studqub
Member
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2000 12:00 am
Location: Dublin

Postby Paul Clerkin » Thu Aug 31, 2000 5:57 pm

Actually I witnessed a design flaw last saturday night... there was a small fire opposite the Smithfield Village development, but the fire brigade couldnt get their engines to that side of the plaze and had to run hoses across the entire width of the square.... pretty poor
User avatar
Paul Clerkin
Old Master
 
Posts: 5427
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 1999 1:00 am
Location: Monaghan

Postby Bernini » Mon Sep 04, 2000 1:50 pm

Smithfield now is perhaps sparse and minimalistic but come on it is a vast improvement on what was there before.It is a public urban space so it's hard landscaping deserves to be somewhat grandiose with a hint of OTT. When the Duffy Bros side is redeveloped it will enclose it's 'openess' Substantial building height is required here in relation to the width of the square.When the whole scheme is finished the area will settle down and with the addition of some appropriate street furniture, sculpture etc... and the influx of people the 'Red Square' feel will soon dissappear.To add, but why replace the anachronistic horse troughs especially if they consisted of mere concrete baths.... would'nt they be somewhat misplaced. Oh maybe they could be planted with flowers by the hanging basket society... a sculpture of a horse by a competent artist could be more apt to sum up it's social history.
Bernini
 

Postby Giacometti » Tue Sep 05, 2000 9:49 am

Just plodding through there this morning and saw that the locals had 'Smithfield Market Community say NO to High Rise' notices in their windows. Here we go again. How is it that greater architectural issues can now be dictated by people who stick multicoloured crazy paving on the front of their homes, install garish PVC mock Georgian windows, erect these things called 'Porches' on the front of their doorstep and usually have a front garden that constitutes weeds or blanket tarmacadam and all en mass. Now come on we all know the auld story of ah! but they're the true Dubs, the working class.... and all that, but plainly speaking the notion of 'Taste' is seriously lacking.It made sound snobbish I know, and not too PC, but there is an element of truth there. It was blinkered ignorant viewpoints that got inner city Dublin into such an impoverished mess years ago. Let's reverse that please and make 'Civics' a serious part of our education today, so that architectural issues can be validly argued about by everyone, and not the usual scenario of the aimless flock been led by the lost shepherd. This is after all the information age, there are libraries their for everyone. Also, I wonder are the corpo houses there to get a make-over as they look a bit of an eyesore; the 'scorched earth' brick is too dark, looks awful and looks cheap, typical of Dublin Corporation inner city housing of one time.... but God bless 'em, sure was'nt that all they could muster under the guidence of Frank Feeley.
Giacometti
 

Postby MG » Tue Sep 05, 2000 10:39 am

I havent noticed those posters, but then I'm not paying much attention at the moment.

Now that I live down there, I still think the Plaza design is pretty poor!
MG
Senior Member
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2000 12:00 am
Location: London

Postby Eyes Wide Shut » Tue Sep 05, 2000 4:59 pm

Have you ever payed it much attention? Smithfield I remember was once just a car park before with a few trees and uneven cobble stones... nothing special! Dotted here and there were ramshackle fruit markets and it once starred in a film with Richard Burton as the Berlin Wall in 'The Spy who came in from the Cold' It held a horse fayre every Sunday of every month that had every 'rag taggle gypsio' character type selling any auld well past it mistreated nag. The ISPCA had many instances of grossly mistreated horses and evidence of unjustifid cruelty. Had you visited you would have noticed and felt the sinister atmosphere of shady deals. OK for the Middle Ages but not 2000 AD. It is currently unfinished, work is in progress,but however when complete it will be as popular as Temple Bar and no one will once think of 'it's poor design' or bleak feel. Too drunk probably!
Eyes Wide Shut
 

Postby Ronan C » Tue Sep 05, 2000 8:29 pm

Yes I have to agree, If the locals had their way down there in Smithfield we would have more of the same Vera Duckworth style housing. So I hope for everybodys sake the locals don`t get their way on this one.
Ronan C
Member
 
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2001 1:00 am
Location: London

Postby JK » Tue Sep 05, 2000 8:42 pm

Amusing, to say the least to read the comments regarding 'locals' in respect of their quite legitimate objection to the proposed developments on the west side of the square.

I happen to be one of those locals who will have to live with the consequences of development on the west side of the square and as a practising architect with 'some' understanding of design and urbanism I think that their vision of the consequences of this development is far more prescient than that of the majority of commentators on this web page.

As to vera duckworth design standards and crazy paved cladding, would anyone care to point out to me the offending dwelling. I've been living here for six years and I've never seen anything of the kind, so, some of the corporation houses sport pvc tudorbethan sashes, certainly no more offensive, and in my humble opinion a lot more harmless than a double block of eight, nine, ten and twenty three stories.

Now I have no doubt that some twit will become offended that I am basically saying "I'm an architect, as a result I know better than you poor ignorant laymen and I believe the west side development to be a dreadful mistake" (incidentally this is actually pretty much what I am thinking upon reading this web page) however bear in mind that this is exactly the kind of nonsense that I am at present reading on this page from the dafter commentators vis a vis their superior knowledge re: design and urbanism as opposed to that of some very nice, well meaning and community spirited people who happen to be my neighbours.

In short, talk nonsense if you wish, but for heavens sakes cut out the snobbery!!!!!.
JK
 

Next

Return to Ireland



cron