Space Architecture No 2

World architecture... what's happening generally....

Space Architecture No 2

Postby roskav » Tue May 25, 2004 11:06 am

Well I found the book.. really odd .. I got it in the late 70s in Bray Bookshop.. It looked as if it was going to satiate my ardent need for lovely cutaway diagrams of Spacecraft .. all watercoloured etc.. But as soon as I got it home, it went up on the shelf as I just didn't get it and the diagrams (I thought) were crap.

So here you are ... straight from cold war Europe with smatterings of Hippy ethos mixed with an inherited die hard pioneer attitude from the US or Africa.

"The Handbook for space pioneers"... "The indispensible guidebook for all pioneers from Earth... " which "is designed to help you select which of the eight colonizable planets is most appropriate for you..."
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Postby roskav » Tue May 25, 2004 11:08 am

with diagrams of a starship's living quarters...
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Postby roskav » Tue May 25, 2004 11:09 am

and conlony plans and layouts... love those french curves..
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Postby roskav » Tue May 25, 2004 11:09 am

...
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Postby FIN » Tue May 25, 2004 11:57 am

from what i can see of part of it...very eden like.
got to love the armageddon ocean....
but very interesting. there is much more talk of the actual space ship colony than on colonising a planet. obviously there is the lunar/and mars ones but not much espically giving a choice from 8...
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Postby garethace » Wed May 26, 2004 7:35 pm

Dunno, Ros,.....

Looks more like any page from a catalogue of misguided, over-designed Second Year Timber projects,.... done by the 'Star Students' for the old tutors up in the BS,....

....rather than a mission to mars concept.

Mission to Second Year Timber Architecture.... than anything like a mission to mars.

I just leaves me hungry for more.... a lot more. :)

By, the by....

What the Russians found out, during their space programme.... was that seemingly well adjusted, and sound individual cosmonots.... aka 'the right stuff'.... weren't actually the right stuff at all... when it came to long term living in space.

The guys just gradually broke down, and couldn't cope.... a lot of great cosmonots came back in an awful state... and admitted,... that they just were not able.

Like, what happens when one of these guys, gone a bit crazy starts to 'take over' the space station and 'eat' all of his/her fellow space men and women.

I would have thought some kind of a building like a prison building, which was completely automated, fully controlled via satallite uplift from the control centre on earth.... so that if there was chips, implanted into the humans.... they could be controlled,.... when to go to sleep, when to feel hungry... all of that kind of thing.

Otherwise, if left to their own devices, the people in these space centres wouldn't be able to sleep properly and gradually their minds would start to totally disintegrate.

I think, that any design for a space centre..... that looks too much like a retirement village beside a lake in the suburbs.... could never fully live up to the requirements of a real space station.... which would have to withstand a way, way, way more abuse, mutiny and even vandalism by its half-crazy occupants... :)


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Postby FIN » Thu May 27, 2004 9:21 am

while the mind of an individual can't really be tested these things happen. one of the earlier settlements in america suffered madness and all killed each other. circumstances dictate if a colony would be productive and successful or not.

i don't think that this particular colony was designed with mars in it's current state in mind. but do agree with the timber/retirement design. but i presume they were taking the athmosphere model of earth and just placing it on a different planet. watching too much battlestar gallactica one feels.

one thing i do see is that they are treating settlements as different ranch style developments. this might counter the madness effect as the settlers won't be living in close proximity. it might build up rival factions but sure wherever humans go they will find a reason to fight with their toenails!!!!
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Postby roskav » Thu May 27, 2004 11:55 am

Hmm I'll have to post up some higher res images.. what I think is great about the diagrams is that they have little architectual sensibility.. someone just got their ruler out and tried to express their mostly word based thought. I think science fiction drops the odd unintentional gem....
For instance Ray Bradbury describes a martian house one one page as a set of crystal columns ... while on the facing page the same house is described as a bronze flower turning constantly to face the sun.... It's a good example of an unintentional illustration of romantic / classical architecture existing in the same building... a thing that perhaps can only occur in words?
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Postby FIN » Thu May 27, 2004 11:59 am

quite true.
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Postby garethace » Thu May 27, 2004 7:44 pm

The trills...
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Postby garethace » Thu May 27, 2004 7:46 pm

The excitement....
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Postby garethace » Thu May 27, 2004 7:48 pm

Oh yeah.... then you suddenly turn up on the door step... of your loved ones... a mere few years after having lived on another planet.... and its like.... :)
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Postby FIN » Fri May 28, 2004 9:04 am

ha,ha...
soory love, but i married someone else...tough sh*t!!!
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Postby garethace » Fri May 28, 2004 4:49 pm

In that sense, is Mars worth the effort?
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Postby FIN » Fri May 28, 2004 4:53 pm

of course.
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Postby garethace » Sat May 29, 2004 4:50 pm

Yeah, but think about it.... the right stuff in the past history of space exploration always would come home to at least.... a wife waiting at the spaceport, and a hero's welcome.

It was a heroic, and memorable event,..... something that one could look forward to. Nowadays with longer term space exploration possible.... the right stuff will not be able to come home to much anymore... because they would have 'vanished' off the face of the planet as it were... for a while. What kind of people can manage to do that?

It was said back in the early days of colonisation of the 'Americas'.... that if man was to set up station on another planet.... one of the first people to be there, on this space station would more than likely be an Irish person.... such was the penetration of people of Irish decent into the new lands across the continent of America.

Since those days, when the native Indians roamed the planes of America, the world hasn't really seen large scale mass movement of populations, into new and unchartered territories. I am just curious, of what kind of an individual would want to live on planet Mars?

Bearing in mind, there was no news coverage or live video feed of the progress of white people moving into the wild west... all those years ago. So I am wondering if this Mars colonisation would be made of people trying to become famous or what?
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Postby FIN » Mon May 31, 2004 8:58 am

possibly but they still would have to be prepared for all the hardships that setting up a new colony would entail and not be in it for just the fame.
and setting up the colony would not require "the right stuff" as in the previous nasa flights. the right stuff could be u or me. in all probability it would be much prefered to u or me than a highly trained scientist to be honest.
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Postby garethace » Mon May 31, 2004 2:35 pm

I dunno, just think about similar instances in history.... for example, New Zealand... and island, where when the white convicts were introduced... and that is exactly the same 'you and me' who would be initially used up in Mars, as guinea pig experiments too... I.e. the planet of Mars, by its very nature as an isolated piece of rock would be ideal as a place in which to throw all the excrement of humanity, rapists, manic depressive people, diseased people, poor people, coloured people.

Just imagine it, suddenly everyone left on planet earth might begin to feel like they were superior to those shipped off to Mars. My own instinct says, that Governments would just deny the existence of convicts on Mars. The trip to Mars would take about a year, and guaranteed the conditions for transportation of these convicts wouldn't be very good at all.... a bit like that film by Spielberg, Amstad.

I.e. If half died along the way, so be it. There would even be a very lucrative 'slave trade' here on planet earth to abduct people, to send on these container ships to planet Mars, to sell as slave workers, high yellows, or niggers to make Mars a 'nice and suitable' place for more civilised people to come to. Imagine just what the major space port on Mars would be like.... a bit like that place in Star Wars, where Han Solo used to drink. :) Scum of the Universe, Jabba the Hutt!

All of this would be just 'covered up' by the politians of course, who would in turn by investing their own money in these entreprises of course. A new rank in society here on earth would emerge of 'super noveau riche'... who own the cartel that would become Mars and Co. Ltd. Just imagine it, whereever humans go, they bring all their rubbish, corruption and scum with them... that is a fact... and to even fool oneself for one second, that it will be just like Timber retirement villages in the Wicklow mountains, is just stupid.

Eventually, the 'Irish workers' on Mars would more than likely start a revolution against the oppressive regime from earth, and begin their very own independent planet, with all their own constitution and laws. BTW, if you really want to fill yourself in, on the notion of a brand new super state, or planet... there is a book out presently just about America and its position as a super power now... forget its name, but it should be a good read.

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Postby FIN » Mon May 31, 2004 2:59 pm

i agree totally. it will probably start as or contain a penal colony... personally i think the vision of mars from the film with arnie in it(can't remember the name of it but it's about wiping his memory) is probably more realistic than star wars jabba but who knows...
australia and new zealand turned out pretty ok from starting out as penal colonies.
yes i agree that it will have to get it's own constitution and government and stuff like that, as to try and rule it's citizens from this planet would be ridiculous. it also brings the possibility of a war of worlds if we ever pissed each other off. these are very real possibilities. however, if it is based on trade and the economy of each depends on each other then that kinda disapates that scenario. not totally but to a large degree.
in it's current state mars would be like that. if it was terraformed then who knows, the ideal retirement village may become a possibility. there are going to be problems no matter what but it'll require the first colonists to be as tough and strong as the first who went to the us. canada, central & s. america, aussieland and n.z. and every other place. but it is within the realms of what we can do to achieve all this. it will force us into another state of mind where we can think of 2 planets where humans are( also the moon but not counting that) we will have to accept a new way of thinking in regards social structure. there will inevitably be the superior feeling of those born on earth then on mars or vice versa but we have overcome thoughts like that before...
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Postby FIN » Tue Jun 01, 2004 10:50 am

total recall.... funnily enough was on last night on bbc1 and of course i watched it...
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Tue Jun 01, 2004 3:16 pm

Originally posted by garethace
I dunno, just think about similar instances in history.... for example, New Zealand... and island, where when the white convicts were introduced... and that is exactly the same 'you and me' who would be initially used up in Mars, as guinea pig experiments too... I.e. the planet of Mars, by its very nature as an isolated piece of rock would be ideal as a place in which to throw all the excrement of humanity, rapists, manic depressive people, diseased people, poor people, coloured people.

Just imagine it, suddenly everyone left on planet earth might begin to feel like they were superior to those shipped off to Mars. My own instinct says, that Governments would just deny the existence of convicts on Mars. The trip to Mars would take about a year, and guaranteed the conditions for transportation of these convicts wouldn't be very good at all.... a bit like that film by Spielberg, Amstad.

I.e. If half died along the way, so be it. There would even be a very lucrative 'slave trade' here on planet earth to abduct people, to send on these container ships to planet Mars, to sell as slave workers, high yellows, or niggers to make Mars a 'nice and suitable' place for more civilised people to come to. Imagine just what the major space port on Mars would be like.... a bit like that place in Star Wars, where Han Solo used to drink. :) Scum of the Universe, Jabba the Hutt!

All of this would be just 'covered up' by the politians of course, who would in turn by investing their own money in these entreprises of course. A new rank in society here on earth would emerge of 'super noveau riche'... who own the cartel that would become Mars and Co. Ltd. Just imagine it, whereever humans go, they bring all their rubbish, corruption and scum with them... that is a fact... and to even fool oneself for one second, that it will be just like Timber retirement villages in the Wicklow mountains, is just stupid.

Eventually, the 'Irish workers' on Mars would more than likely start a revolution against the oppressive regime from earth, and begin their very own independent planet, with all their own constitution and laws. BTW, if you really want to fill yourself in, on the notion of a brand new super state, or planet... there is a book out presently just about America and its position as a super power now... forget its name, but it should be a good read.

Brian.



ahhh its the early days of the Hudson's Bay Company all over again..... and eventually the world governments have to buy Mars back like the UK had to do with Prince Rupert Land
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Postby FIN » Tue Jun 01, 2004 4:28 pm

interesting comparsion. u could very well be right. although would they let the same mistake happen again. learning from other peoples mistakes and all that. somehow my answer for that is yes they can.
mining will be an integral part of the initial colonisation, either of the planet itself or nearby asteroids, and so large mining corporations will in effect be running the colony.
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Postby garethace » Fri Jun 04, 2004 9:27 pm

you should register over at http://www.augi.com FIN and download the magazine pdfs... with David Kingsley's articles in them... he is so funny in how he describes the 'early days' of designing satallites and all kinds of space thing-m-y-bobs.... :)

http://www.aceshardware.com/forum?read=115083138
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Postby FIN » Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:58 am

i tried brian, they don't seem to want me to join :-)
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Postby garethace » Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:43 pm

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