Vega City

Vega City

Postby GregF » Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:31 am

Vega City proposed for the northside of Dublin.....eh! A E7 billion theme park which would attract approx 37 million tourists a year and employ over 40,000 people. Would be great if it could materialize. Fantastical eh!
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Postby sw101 » Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:05 am

Saw initial proposals on the telly. Monorail, 40,000 apartments, three theme parks, golf facilities etc.

Some eejit then came on and said it shouldnt happen because dublin airport couldnt handle the numbers and we'd have to build an extra runway or two. Did i mention eejit?

Fingal planners have "initial Reservations", surprise surprise. Could be the best or worst thing that ever happens to this country, or doesnt
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Postby shadow » Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:43 am

For Vega read Vegas....

I think this is a thin edge to a wedge which will attempt to locate a major gambling and entertainment complex in Ireland for the whole of Europe. I suspect that the developers are linked either to Atlantic City (possibly Trump) or Las Vegas itself. Coupled with a supply line like Ryan Air you can see joint "family friendly" travel packages, for the event. Perhaps it should be called "Event Horizon" (for those not keen on lateral jumps see under film). You can come to Ireland but never experience Ireland. Instead it is likely it would follow Vegas with Themed facilities, probably in the form of come to Ireland, see America. Grand Canyon boulevard, Yosemite Hotel, Ol Yella Gesyer fountains and so on, perhaps Mount Rushmore (with faces of more recent american presidents).
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Postby GrahamH » Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:54 am

I think its true to say it will be either the worst or best thing to happen in this country.
One of the extraoridinary facts about it will be that if built, it will stretch from the new Swords interchange of the M1 - just finished, on both sides of the motorway - to Balbriggan!

Apparently one of the major backers in the project are to make themselves known today (19th)

And what apartments have to do with a theme park...
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Postby GregF » Wed Nov 19, 2003 12:13 pm

However would'nt it be a huge investment for the country.......despite it's over commercial American slant. Think of all that extra revenue for the Irish economy that could be put to good use too.
If it does'nt materialize the developers said that they would seek somewhere else abroad. No doubt it would probably go to the Cech Republic or somewhere like that who are reaping great financial awards and benefits at the moment...ie tourism, jobs, etc..They already have a beautiful capital city as a building block.
It could be a great lose to the Ireland too I think, in the long run. I'd say go with it and build it. Remember the Sonas Centre which was propsed a decade ago or so for the country....which included a National Stadium. Here we are years later still without a National Stadium. Sometimes our lack of vision and immense conservatism works against us, I think.
It would be very sad to think that if it was built abroad and was a huge success it would be a great loss for us, becoming a holiday destination for us Irish.
The land there, that it's proposed to be built on, will in any way, sooner or later, be re zoned for private housing, just like the land on which the Sonas Centre was proposed has been.
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Nov 19, 2003 1:11 pm

I think it would be a disaster....
And the numbers don't stack up - this place would need an entire airport which copes with twice as many passengers as dublin airport does at the moment.... where will they build a new airport? who will pay for it? its not a matter of a single new terminal...

"It would be an enormous imposition. For example, it would see a total of 60 million passengers passing through Dublin Airport a year, compared to Heathrow which has 53 million passengers a year," he said."


I don't buy it - I reckon a report will prove after rezoning that its unviable and propose a new town instead...
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Postby RichardC » Wed Nov 19, 2003 2:04 pm

I agree with Paul, the numbers don't add up at all.

Paris is one of the largest and most visited cities in Europe and they're having trouble sustaining a major branded theme park. The record breaking 13.1 million visitors to Disneyland Paris last year are not enough to keep the park afloat and it is in serious financial difficulty, losing almost Eur60m this year.

Now, how the hell is a tinpot little town on the edge of Europe with its wet climate, shoddy transport and the ever present faint stench of corruption going to generate 3 times the numbers that Disneyland Paris does?

The French called Disneyland Paris a 'Cultural Chernobyl' can we expect any such development here to be any different? Anyway, don't we have a theme park already, down in Temple Bar?

I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that the proposed development is a trojan horse for a new town.

The developers have planted the seed of serious cash into the minds of local landowners. Possible sellers, if the price is right, have identified themselves. Planners will come under increasing pressure to sanction development of some sort, or be seen as holding back a major cash cow for the economy...

In short, it stinks...
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Postby sw101 » Wed Nov 19, 2003 3:35 pm

Owen O'Callaghan has emerged as the main irish character in this little drama. He of merchants quay shopping centre and mahon point fame. And most of cork city centre, oh, and the liffey valley, oh and the new liffey valley town centre.

Someones going to turn lusk into a metropolis. Oh the horror
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Postby d_d_dallas » Wed Nov 19, 2003 5:24 pm

If this actually went ahead as described - goodbye M50, M1, any thought of extra capacity in Dublin Airport. You think congestion is bad now? You'd need to triple the capacity of the M50 alone. The figures are very revealing - check out todays indo - 17 million of the proposed visitors are supposed to come from INSIDE Ireland - think about it: every man woman and child will have to visit this venue FOUR times a year - yeah right! Ireland the country attracted 5.85 mill last year in tourist numbers - is this with three airports, ferrys etc... So just Dublin airport will pass on more people than Heathrow?

A more likely scenario and remember we're talking Mr Liffey Valley, Mahon Point here is that the vega dev will work out to be "unviable" but can I build the 40,000 apartments anyway along with a million sqft of commercial space, oh and since I'm not building the theme park forget the monorail or extra two lanes for the M1 as proposed.
His dev's are the AIDS virus to established urban areas.
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Nov 19, 2003 5:59 pm

Originally posted by d_d_dallas
A more likely scenario and remember we're talking Mr Liffey Valley, Mahon Point here is that the vega dev will work out to be "unviable" but can I build the 40,000 apartments anyway along with a million sqft of commercial space, oh and since I'm not building the theme park forget the monorail or extra two lanes for the M1 as proposed.


Agreed 100%
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Postby PVC King » Wed Nov 19, 2003 6:25 pm

The addition of a second runway at dublin airport would at a cost of 272m Euro give a combined capacity of 50m passengers. (Aer Rianta EIS scoping report Nov 2002) That is less than 37m 'New' tourists and 18m existing passengers. A new terminal in Cork to handle 2m passengers will cost 140m Euro, Dublin Airport would therefore require at least 1bn Euro investment just to service this project.

As for shutting or disrupting the M1 to add two lanes, that is unlikely to attract the support of the NRA.

As for 40,000 apartments in an area without the Dart or any rail line with spare capacity.

For what a plastic theme park
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Postby Hugh » Wed Nov 19, 2003 6:35 pm

Useful rule of thumb: anything with a monorail in it will never happen.
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Postby phil » Wed Nov 19, 2003 7:02 pm

"Well, sir, there's nothing on earth
Like a genuine,
Bona fide,
Electrified,
Six-car
Monorail!
What'd I say?

Monorail!

What's it called?

Monorail!

That's right! Monorail!"

Please excuse me, I could not resist the opportuny to quote the simpsons song about monorails. I think it is quite apt in this situation.
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Postby what? » Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:48 pm

and what about us brain dead slobs?

youll be offered fake new jobs.

is there a chance the law might bend?

depends on the bribe my developer friend

i swear its irelands only choice,
throw up your hands and raise your voice,

MONORAIL!!
MONORAIL!!
MMMOOONNNOOORRRAAAIIIL!

have pity, i too am an addict.
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Postby Qadhafi » Wed Nov 19, 2003 10:00 pm

Is there just a high density of thick and stupid people here ?

Listen, this vega city development should go ahead. The economic spin off is so huge that failure to go ahead is completely stupid.

Yes there are concern's. For instance no one wants this thing to turn out to one huge housing development and the infastruture has to be developed but these things can be taken care of.

In light of Abbotstown, it can be agreed that in order for Vega City to go ahead then they need to have infastructure delivered on a stage basis.

Fingal Country Council can put in these safeguards. Any objections seem to be purely on concerns over infastructure and negativity. If we dont go ahead with this then some other EU country is going to get it !


And what 's the big problem with monorail anyway?
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Postby stira » Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:40 pm

I think it is too good an oppurtunity to waste, i doubt it will get the through the planning process however, and even if it did it would almost surely be scaled back. Whether the Council and residents like it or not, that land will be rezoned, its just a matter of time.The scale of the development is mindboggling, could you imagine the benefits to the construction industry, exchequer and toursim industry, airports and ports it would really put Dublin on the map. As for the infrastructute, where theres a will theres a way!
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Postby sw101 » Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:01 am

What will? Theres a strong will to get us a transport system in the city and look where thats going. Cant even lay the tracks straight. I must say i shudder at the thought of an irish theme park consuming half of north county dublin. Heavy handed stupidity that will scar the cultural landscape for a long time. Look at the plans!! Its all nice lakes and green. Looks like a school kid drew it
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Thu Nov 20, 2003 10:08 am

Originally posted by Qadhafi
Is there just a high density of thick and stupid people here ?


If we dont go ahead with this then some other EU country is going to get it !


ahhh classic FUD tactics...

fear uncertainty doubt.... if we don't let it happen, someone else will get it... so what?
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Thu Nov 20, 2003 10:28 am

and if you wanted more proof that this was a load of bollox

Small US company declares its backing for theme park
Merchandising firm with 15 employees says it is ready to invest €1 billion in development

A small American merchandising company has emerged as the first foreign backer of the proposed theme park near Lusk in north Co Dublin. Oz-Central, a firm based in Henderson, Kentucky, said it was prepared to invest €1 billion in the €7 billion scheme.

According to the US Business Directory, Oz-Central is located in the town of Henderson, and employs between 10 and 15 people. Its annual revenues are between $2.5 and $5 million.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/ireland/2003/1120/3727967965HM3OZNEWS.html

read the entire article - its hilarious
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Postby GregF » Thu Nov 20, 2003 10:40 am

Aye, I think we're been duped...no doubt there will be oodles of brown envelops floating about. They probably saw how corrupt the planning laws etc are here and are trying to take advantage to make a quick buck!
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Postby urbanisto » Thu Nov 20, 2003 11:37 am

This is definately the bizarrest New Ireland story yet. I am amazed that anyone would seriously consider this as aviable plan. I agree completely with the comments regarding EuroDisney.... that is just about solvent and the French have the advantage of guaranteed summers! I would think it is most definately a trojan horse to speed up land development in the area.
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Postby ro_G » Thu Nov 20, 2003 3:52 pm

They're taking the piss - 40,000 jobs, 37 million visitors, for jaysus sake. To put this is some perspective: The Magic Kingdom in Walt Disney World is 100 acres and these guys say it will be 2000 acres.

I mean, what will be in it? The Tallaght White Knuckle 56A Ride and the Raheny House of Horrors? Feckin ridiculous business. I'd be on the side of waging that the outcome will be that the developers in question will buy up all the land, then miraculously decide that the theme park is not economical, then they have all this nice rezoned farmland to put housing developments on. Plain as bloody day
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Postby PVC King » Thu Nov 20, 2003 6:52 pm

On an investment $7bn for 40,000 jobs or $175,000 per job. Not even West Belfast pays that. The Celtic Tiger was built upon subsidies of about £15,000 or $19,230 per job. Well dispersed and with growth potential.

Bucharest is welcome to this project if even they want it.
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Postby d_d_dallas » Thu Nov 20, 2003 6:54 pm

Well lucky for us Fingal CC has the power to refuse permission to apply for permission... if that makes sense.
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Postby PVC King » Thu Nov 20, 2003 6:58 pm

The conservationists nightmare are schemes like this and spencer dock before it. As organizations such as the Irish Georgian Society spend so much time on fighting these developments. That they are unable to contest other developments that are damaging albiet on a smaller scale. But this has to be smoke screen of the decade. I hope you are right D_D and that Fingal refuse to entertain this at all.
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