Grafton Street, Dublin

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby rumpelstiltskin » Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:56 am

Maybe this is for the best. Grafton Street will never be what they want it to be, as it's already just an average British high street and there's no will to change it. They should just pick another street nearby and design it from scratch.
rumpelstiltskin
Member
 
Posts: 234
Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:51 pm

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby Morlan » Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:07 am

New granite revealed

Image

Image

Image
User avatar
Morlan
Senior Member
 
Posts: 831
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 2:47 pm
Location: Áth Cliath

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby StephenC » Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:29 pm

Its progressing. Maybe faster than thought? It surely wont take 18mths?
User avatar
StephenC
Old Master
 
Posts: 2497
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby SeamusOG » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:04 am

As mentioned on page 11 by Peter Fitz and GrahamH, and perhaps others, where is the granite from?
SeamusOG
Member
 
Posts: 332
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:59 pm

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby StephenC » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:11 pm

Did I hear somewhere that the stone is sources from Leinster and Portugal
User avatar
StephenC
Old Master
 
Posts: 2497
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby GrahamH » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:36 pm

The central granite is Portugese, while the side flanks will be Leinster granite. Given the (current) limited capacity of stone cutting in the quarry here, I imagine the Leinster granite is being stockpiled until a sufficient quantity can be delivered to site to execute the sides.

I believe the pink granite for the junctions will be from Cork or Kerry.
GrahamH
Old Master
 
Posts: 4589
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:24 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby StephenC » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:30 pm

Actually I would say its all to do with phasing. Create the central walkway first and then you can work on the sides thereby limiting the disturbance to businesses and pedestrians.
User avatar
StephenC
Old Master
 
Posts: 2497
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby Punchbowl » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:24 pm

Had a walk on it today - it's very uneven, feels slightly temporary, but could be due to the quality of the granite - maybe it's supposed to be worn down naturally? It certainly doesn't have the shiny, machine cut feel of the Henry St paving. I think I sort of like it.
Punchbowl
Member
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 2:22 pm
Location: Echlin St

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby Morlan » Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:48 pm

Image

"Stains are more noticeable because of the recent very dry weather and the lack of rainfall, which in normal circumstances would wash away much of the staining." - DCC
User avatar
Morlan
Senior Member
 
Posts: 831
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 2:47 pm
Location: Áth Cliath

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby StephenC » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:00 pm

I have been beaten to it by The Journal.ie

I was just thinking to myself that the newly completed section look dreadful. Its filthy. Of course its not being cleaned, but I wonder will this surface work with the amount of use it will get. Combine the rough texture of the stone with its colour and I think we might have a problem here Houston.

One of the benefits of the Lenister granite, to be used elsewhere, is its colour. It masked many stains.
User avatar
StephenC
Old Master
 
Posts: 2497
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby StephenC » Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:23 pm

Image
User avatar
StephenC
Old Master
 
Posts: 2497
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby Peter Fitz » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:00 am

Oh dear, what the fuck is that?
Peter Fitz
Member
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:25 pm

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby Landarch » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:29 pm

That is a Hartecast product. They supply the bins that are loved so much on this forum. His products are all terribly designed. Very frustrating as it's an Irish company and their products are all over the country. Pity they can't get a decent designer to design their products
Landarch
Member
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:17 pm

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby StephenC » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:38 pm

Its got a little 3 castles logo on the top which will ensure that it reinforces the distinctive sense of place of Grafton Street.

Its nice to see yet another variation on the bollard on our city's streets, isn't it?
User avatar
StephenC
Old Master
 
Posts: 2497
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby Morlan » Mon Sep 02, 2013 2:27 pm

Absolutely hideous. Have a look at hartecast dot com to see the rest of their grotesque designs. There's even a testimonial from DCC.

“It says a lot for the quality and durability of your product that the bin itself was still in perfect working order after it had been badly knocked over by a truck, we removed the concrete from the base of the bin and it was used again!”

:sick:
User avatar
Morlan
Senior Member
 
Posts: 831
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 2:47 pm
Location: Áth Cliath

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby aj » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:02 pm

WTF???
aj
Member
 
Posts: 240
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 6:51 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby gunter » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:50 pm

Clearly the design is a contemporary take on Finn McCool's cudgel.

If they unscrew, which I imagine they must, we may get to see how they perform in action, when the pubs close.
gunter
Old Master
 
Posts: 1922
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby Bago » Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:54 pm

Warning, don't look at hartecast website or you'll wish you were blind. memories are coming back of brochures for italian street furniture and kiosks, full of beauty, style, nobility, pride. Hartecast website is a catalogue of banal nightmares, that are a physical reality.
Bago
Member
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:04 pm
Location: Dublin

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby StephenC » Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:51 pm

Good lord...well where to start.

Firstly the blurb from Hartecaste's own website:

Following the success of our Ductile Iron Litter Bin range the new Base Ball Bat Bollard range is of the same strength and is a great addition to our already popular range. It is a seriously heavy duty bollard which is available with contrasting colour strip for higher visibility. - See more at: http://www.hartecast.com/hc2100-base-ba ... TCM40.dpuf


So there you have...gunter was not far off the mark.

At the time of the Part VIII application, a number of people, myself included took the time to comment on the Council's plans. The design of street furniture was left deliberately vague but the Part VIII application documentation did includes such standards phrases as...

It is proposed that the street furniture be well-designed and elegant, and both reflect and express the unique character of Grafton Street.


A planning authority of course never really needs to justify its proposals under Part VIII. In my experience the public is usually ignored ...unless they are in wheelchairs or run a charity shop or some other such trait that the media are likely to attach themselves to. Crap design is not something even the Irish Times can engage with.

So it was in this instance. The few calls that were made to retain the existing lamps etc were roundly ignored. 'Contemporary' rules the day. But this is not the contemporary of Beth Gali, its rather Bollards 'R' Us.

I got a recent reply via Twitter that the old lamps were being reclaimed by the Public Lighting Dept (bastion of style elegance and conservation that it is) for use elsewhere in the city.

I suppose its a fair point to say that the city is not a museum piece and that it should not be a simple case of old vs new, olde worlde vs cool Hibernia. But in this instance is very much lowest common denominator stuff. Given that city architect Killian Skay (oops dont mention their names) spent about 2 years on the design of this street...something more than a browse through the Hartecaste catalogue would have been expected.
User avatar
StephenC
Old Master
 
Posts: 2497
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby StephenC » Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:09 pm

Dont forget the commitment to high quality shopfronts on the street and 'high end' retailing (oops another dirty word)

Image

Perhaps Massimo Dutti will save us.
User avatar
StephenC
Old Master
 
Posts: 2497
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby Peter Fitz » Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:08 pm

Seriously DCC, if you propose lining the street with those ridiculous looking clubs, just leave them out.

Save the cash and spend it on the gallons of sealant you'll need.

You'd have to be more than a little concerned about the chosen granite at this point, and the standard of workmanship.

There are plans to “thoroughly clean the entire area” once the current phase of the redevelopment is complete. A sealant will also be applied to the stone to facilitate “the future cleaning of the paving and the removal of stains, gum and dirt”.


Now, as some of you may know, i'm sick of this inane bloody stuff being plastered all over every street in Dublin, but such as it is, this particular job lot appears to be of inferior quality to the Henry Street batch.

Did they even bother to lay a small sample anywhere to test for durability?...basic stuff before undertaking a job on this scale, on this street.
Peter Fitz
Member
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:25 pm

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby GrahamH » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:06 pm

...and Archiseek kicks back to life!

This is quite a baffling development. The embarrassing spectacle of Hartecast becoming indirect design consultants to local authorities across the country has been well charted in previous discussions on this board, so to have one of their most ignorant products specified for the 'premier' street in the country is quite simply a grotesque joke.

I have a lot of time for Hartecast, as an Irish company operating in a highly competititive market, and for the innovation they have engaged in in recent years to refine some of their product offering. They're the Liam Carroll of the street furniture world, slowly realising the benefits that can be brought from engaging a modicum of design expertise - even if much of your success has been built on the horse having somewhat bolted over the hills.

But seriously, how on earth the very worst aspects of Hartecast's early years - bullet-proofed, blandly-wipeable, easy-watching, cartoonly-proportioned aesthetics - can be even trialed, never mind apparently be commissioned, for Grafton Street, not only beggars belief, but raises very grave concerns about the collective competences of the agency delivering this project. This is quite serious stuff, and hard-hitting questions really need to be asked. This just cannot go unchallenged.

I had a look at this yoke in the flesh this evening. The deep green colour is elegant and highly appropriate for the street. Indeed, this is similar to the colour I originally specified as being a suitable option for the refurbishment of the existing street furniture. But that's where the flattery ends. The proportions are beyond belief. The casualness, the lack of formality, the grossly proprietary qualities, the baffling po-mo detailing, the crude, bordering on simply inaccurate, rendering of the Dublin City Council city stamp - it's all such an insult to the citizenry that you couldn't make this stuff up. I'm so sick of the public having to pick up the pieces on basics like this. Yes, of course there's subjectivity in public design - there always will be - but this doesn't even enter into the design world. It doesn't even qualify for a bashing. Which renders the previous paragraph somewhat troubling.

I've inspected the new paving in very considerable detail and like other contributors, have major reservations about the ability of the Portuguese granite, even with the sealant, to hold up to the battering that this street gets - easily one of the busiest in Europe. But I'd like to think this has been trailed and correctly specified, and will give it the benefit of the doubt. On the design and choice of stone itself, I can entirely understand why the bush-hammered finish was chosen. It is exceedingly urbane, strong, handsome, and oozes a venerable quality – as if it has been on the street for a couple of centuries. I know it’s hard to believe this in its current begrimed state, but look at it in the rain and it is stupendously good. In fact, I think it’s far superior to the Leinster granite alongside. The decision to go with wide jointing is also an interesting one. It’s hard to decide if it works or not until the staining is removed.

Unfortunately, I think the mid-grey of the Portuguese and the honey hue of the Leinster actually clash quite badly. I’d much prefer to see the Portuguese granite laid the whole width of the street. The charcoal coloured rumble strips running parallel to the gutters are cluttering and cheap in appearance, and from an aesthetic point of view, certainly aren’t needed. The street junctions of square slabs of pink granite are coming along quite nicely. The quality of the workmanship here is much higher than it is for the main body of Portuguese granite, which is unevenly laid, indeed there are clearly trip hazards already, and where the handling of the gracious street curve is seriously ham-fisted, being awkwardly angled into stretches of straight lines.

All in all, a very mixed bag on Grafton Street at the minute. Just somebody do the right thing please and refurb the previous furniture – lamps included – to a high standard.
GrahamH
Old Master
 
Posts: 4589
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:24 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby StephenC » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:27 pm

The rumble strip looks ridiculous. I cant imagine any sight impaired person relying on this. Its so slight and it would be impossible on such a busy street for anyone to follow it to the extent that it becomes useful and meaningful.

I very much like the small pink setts that form the border to each shop.

how on earth the very worst aspects of Hartecast's early years - bullet-proofed, blandly-wipeable, easy-watching, cartoonly-proportioned aesthetics - can be even trialed, never mind apparently be commissioned, for Grafton Street, not only beggars belief, but raises very grave concerns about the collective competences of the agency delivering this project.


This is the same architect and project manager of the O'Connell Street scheme. Lovely paving and well conceived layout to be sure but the street furniture in particular is shite (lets be frank) and is already looking dated and dull, not to say in need of a painting. It too came from the catalogue of identikit street furniture. The tree planting in the median was poorly conceived and quite a number of trees have been lost and not replaced. 10 years later we are still waiting for someone to do something with the Luas substation in the middle of the median. The original design had the cycle lane running beside the median, a ludicrous idea that was soon redesigned. And of course its all to be dug up again...thanks to Luas CrossShitty.

So one wonders now what the lighting will be like.
User avatar
StephenC
Old Master
 
Posts: 2497
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Dublin

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby missarchi » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:20 am

College green is going to be done over in the same way...

Be afraid...
missarchi
Old Master
 
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:53 pm

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby Landarch » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:25 pm

I think the concerns over the dirt of the new granite paving are ill placed. As StephenC referred to, the dry Summer means that spills and dirt have been highlighted. I have been more aware of stains and the dirty appearance of granite during all this good weather than I can ever remember before. A down pour really does help wash down the streets.
I have dealt with Hartecast and they are actually really nice people. It is such a pity their products are so rubbish. There are so many good off the shelf street furniture products out there. There are also so many good fabricators working in Ireland. It would be so easy for DCC to design and detail there own stuff and have it made.
Landarch
Member
 
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:17 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Ireland



cron