pairc ui chaoimh

Re: pairc ui chaoimh

Postby rofbp » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:37 pm

Well, it seems the park for the docklands will definitely be 2 small disconnected parks rather than 1 unified area.

The Evening Echo carried a story a few nights ago confirming that 6.82 acres of land in the Showgrounds will be sold to the GAA for €1.7 million.
They also carried a plan of the layout of a new pitch situated south of Pairc Ui Chaoimh, as well as a basic drawing on an inside page, comparing the size of the new 2-tier stand to the current covered stand.

I will try to upload a picture of this later
rofbp
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:44 pm
Location: cork

Re: pairc ui chaoimh

Postby rofbp » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:44 pm

IMG_1884.jpg
layout of new pitch alongside current stadium
rofbp
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:44 pm
Location: cork

Re: pairc ui chaoimh

Postby rofbp » Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:51 pm

comparison of heights of current and proposed stands

this seems incredible, but a straightforward folding of the picture seems to indicate that the back of the new stand is three times the height of the current stand, and is 4 times the height if you include the roof!!

i know these are the most basic of basic pictures, but that is scarcely believable
rofbp
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:44 pm
Location: cork

Re: pairc ui chaoimh

Postby who_me » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:25 pm

Interesting, thanks. I'd assume that image is just a rough guide, but at least it shows the plans are ambitious, which I like!

From the first image, it seems the new stand extends about 2/3 of the way around the pitch, is that correct? Is that because of the Marina & Atlantic Pond behind that end of the ground?
who_me
Member
 
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 7:15 pm

Re: pairc ui chaoimh

Postby rofbp » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:40 am

who_me wrote:Interesting, thanks. I'd assume that image is just a rough guide, but at least it shows the plans are ambitious, which I like!

From the first image, it seems the new stand extends about 2/3 of the way around the pitch, is that correct? Is that because of the Marina & Atlantic Pond behind that end of the ground?


Sorry the size of the upload is so small. i have attached a larger image here, and a more detailed explanation of each part as the text on the image is too small.

IMG_1884_2.jpg


The light blue going around 2/3 to 3/4 of the ground is a "15m wide spectator circulation". it does stop at the atlantic pond end, which i find a little strange. Perhaps it isn't part of the stadium as such, and the existing parking area behind the blackrock terrace will perform a similar function for the new stadium?

The new two-tier stand is the red structure, with capacity increasing to 16500 (up 7043).
Article states that phase one is construction of this stand, creation of all-weather pitch with floodlights and covered 1000 seater stand on the monaghan road/south side, coloured pink on the image.

Article further states that phase 2 is the replacement of the uncovered stand and both terraces. From a pure spectators point of view, this is the news with which i am most happy. I had feared they would only refurbish the other 3 sides, and anyone who has been on a full terrace in PuiC knows how dangerous they are. Article states that capacity of stand will increase from 10000 to 11000, while capacity of terraces will both decrease by 758 to 11250.

The City End Terrace is partly coloured yellow on the picture. There is small print in the picture stating that "Marina Hall to be acquired", (and i assume demolished). Whether this is for a deeper terrace, for the circulation area, or both is unclear.

Article states "pitch itself will not be changed"

The red lines to the north mark a new road, (i assume a diversion of the path which currently follows the old railway line) 7.35m wide.
175m of the stream there is to be culverted.

The yellow areas to the east and west of the training pitch show a "vendor, ticket and programme sales area" and "landscaped access routes". Some of this area appears to now be sold to the GAA, while another area west of the city end terrace is to be "licensed to Pairc Ui Chaoimh".

Article says "a portion of land will also be identified for possible parking use, that could be leased to the GAA and developed, at their cost, into a carpark". Hard to know if this or the training pitch is the worst news from a public park point of view, but i suppose it could be ok if it was landscaped appropriately and accessible to park-users to park on on non-match days.
rofbp
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:44 pm
Location: cork

Re: pairc ui chaoimh

Postby who_me » Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:22 pm

Thanks rofbp! I thought from the smaller image the blue in the plan view corresponded with the new 'blue' stand in the cross-section, and the red with the old red stand.

In that case, colour me a lot less impressed. Hopefully that's just phase 1 though, and the rest of the 'bowl' will be similarly completed. It'd be great for once to have one covered, complete bowl stadium; unlike Croke Park, Lansdowne Rd or any other Irish stadium.

On a more cynical note again: what are the council up to? They CPO land from the MAS to build an 'essential' park. They then decide the park isn't that essential, and sell the land to the GAA, at a significant loss. And the land in question isn't for an 'essential' stadium, but a rather less than essential Excellence Centre.

If I wanted to be REALLY cynical, I'd suggest the reason for the Excellence Centre is to "reserve" land to be used at a later date for a hotel/conference centre. If that land had been used as part of the park, it would be nightmare ever to get permission to build on it. However now, if the GAA build this hotel in 10-20 years time, they'll claim it's on their own land so there'll be much less opposition. :shh:
who_me
Member
 
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 7:15 pm

Re: pairc ui chaoimh

Postby rofbp » Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:51 pm

who_me wrote: Hopefully that's just phase 1 though, and the rest of the 'bowl' will be similarly completed. It'd be great for once to have one covered, complete bowl stadium; unlike Croke Park, Lansdowne Rd or any other Irish stadium.

The article does confirm that the other three sides are to be rebuilt in phase 2. i had thought (feared) that they would merely refurbish them. I had heard that the terraces will be rebuilt as all-seater stands. The reported reduction in capacity there would support that. They are drawn in a similar layout to the new stand on the uncovered stand side, so i assume a level of uniformity will apply to those 3 sides, but don't get your hopes up for a covered bowl: i had heard those three sides will be uncovered, and of course they will only have one tier, while the first phase will be 2 tier.

On a more cynical note again: what are the council up to? They CPO land from the MAS to build an 'essential' park. They then decide the park isn't that essential, and sell the land to the GAA, at a significant loss. And the land in question isn't for an 'essential' stadium, but a rather less than essential Excellence Centre.

i think it is pretty clear that the council planners don't want to lose the park, but the politicians are all for it, as reflected in the vote a few months ago. i assume the planners are just making the best of a bad lot, and figure its better to cooperate on a good design and agree on some common principles for the leased area than to have a disjointed development of the area.
the centre of excellence is required, but i don't know anyone who thinks it should be right next to pairc ui chaoimh. it would make much more sense to develop it on the outskirts of the city, where land was cheaper, and access was better. it would make even more sense to develop it in conjunction with some club on the city limits, Bishopstown or Douglas on the south side, Blarney, Delaney's or Sarsfields on the north of the city.

You want proof that it isn't primarily a centre of excellence: why does it need a 1000 seater stand?

If I wanted to be REALLY cynical, I'd suggest the reason for the Excellence Centre is to "reserve" land to be used at a later date for a hotel/conference centre.

It is certainly a land grab, but i wouldn't credit the county board with as much foresight as you do. I think they just want it for parking, and i guarantee there will be cars parked on this centre of excellence's all weather pitch for every big game in PuiC
rofbp
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:44 pm
Location: cork

Re: pairc ui chaoimh

Postby who_me » Mon Oct 24, 2011 5:51 pm

Thanks again for the info.

At least the entire ground is being rebuilt, though it's a shame if it's not all covered. Why is it that we seem to do everything by half measures in this country?

I'd agree the centre of excellence doesn't need to be right in that spot, adjacent to the stadium, which is why I'm a bit suspicious about it. IIRC, there were reports back at the start of the process that a hotel/conference centre were part of the GAA's plans, so it's wouldn't surprise me if it were still part of their plans. I can't fault them for taking care of their own interests, but it would be a crying shame if the park were to be significantly impacted just to build a (private) hotel rather than more public use.
who_me
Member
 
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 7:15 pm

Re: pairc ui chaoimh

Postby rofbp » Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:40 pm

Things have moved on somewhat regarding this redevelopment:

Scott Tallon Walker have been appointed as project architects, it was announced by the Cork County Board:
[url]http://www.gaacork.ie/taggedNews/101247/99/páirc_u%C3%ADchaoimh_design_team_announced[/url]

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/new-pairc-will-be-second-only-to-croker-says-rebel-county-chairman-321701-Jan2012/

I laugh because 16 months ago, i posted a picture on this thread from the Scott Tallon Walker website showing Pairc Ui Chaoimh with 2 new roofs, rendered as part of an image of a Docklands development.
http://www.stwarchitects.com/project-information.php?p=07090

We won't get an AVIVA stadium, but if we ended up with a Thomand Park, I would be very happy

EDIT: not sure why gaacork.ie link isn't displaying correctly
rofbp
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:44 pm
Location: cork

Re: pairc ui chaoimh

Postby rofbp » Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:22 pm

Should also have included that it was decided before Christmas not to redevelop as a 60000 seater stadium, but to redevelop in or around the current capacity: 45000
rofbp
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:44 pm
Location: cork

Re: pairc ui chaoimh

Postby Cathal Dunne » Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:35 am

I hope Páirc Uí Chaoimh gets a really good redevelopment. If we're serious about a 2023 Rugby World Cup and I hope we are, it's crucial we have a great stadium in our third city.
Cathal Dunne
Member
 
Posts: 280
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:33 pm

Re: pairc ui chaoimh

Postby Steady » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:29 pm

hope Páirc Uí Chaoimh gets a really good redevelopment. If we're serious about a 2023 Rugby World Cup and I hope we are, it's crucial we have a great stadium in our third city.


Yes, Frank Murphy is very on top of this and has been working closely with the IRFU to ensure that the Rugby World cup comes to Ireland in 2023 and that the youngsters of Ireland and Cork get to see top class rugby (with all of athe associated high-profile media coverage). Local GAA clubs around the towns and villages of Cork and across Ireland are also well up for this and many meetings have already been held agitating for the development of PuC to be ready on time.
Steady
Member
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:46 pm

Re: pairc ui chaoimh

Postby browser » Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:16 pm

Steady wrote:
hope Páirc Uí Chaoimh gets a really good redevelopment. If we're serious about a 2023 Rugby World Cup and I hope we are, it's crucial we have a great stadium in our third city.


Yes, Frank Murphy is very on top of this and has been working closely with the IRFU to ensure that the Rugby World cup comes to Ireland in 2023 and that the youngsters of Ireland and Cork get to see top class rugby (with all of athe associated high-profile media coverage). Local GAA clubs around the towns and villages of Cork and across Ireland are also well up for this and many meetings have already been held agitating for the development of PuC to be ready on time.


Well said! Not sure FM has the oval ball game high on his list of priorities (and proper order IMHO)! That said I would love a proper stadium for municipal use in the city (even if its owned by the GAA and leased out) and hopefully by the time this thing is built the appropriate permission from "Congress" will have been obtained. Personally though, apart from obviously watching Cork/Tipp and Cork/Kerry matches in a proper stadium, I'd be more interested in the Congress Motion so I could watch Cork City in the Champions League (a guy can dream can't he?)!
browser
Member
 
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:45 pm

Re: pairc ui chaoimh

Postby who_me » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:42 pm

browser wrote:Well said! Not sure FM has the oval ball game high on his list of priorities (and proper order IMHO)! That said I would love a proper stadium for municipal use in the city (even if its owned by the GAA and leased out) and hopefully by the time this thing is built the appropriate permission from "Congress" will have been obtained. Personally though, apart from obviously watching Cork/Tipp and Cork/Kerry matches in a proper stadium, I'd be more interested in the Congress Motion so I could watch Cork City in the Champions League (a guy can dream can't he?)!


I can't say I'm too well versed on the GAA, but weren't the Cork County Board (or Cork clubs?) among the staunchest opponents of opening up Croke Park for the rugby & soccer? If so, it seems unlikely to me they'd be too accommodating to opening their own stadium to such sports.

It's understandable why the GAA would be reluctant to help out the competition. But it's so annoying, as a Cork sports fan, to see the 3 main organisations struggling with piecemeal stadium developments (Páirc Uí Chaoimh, Musgrave Park and Turners Cross) when with a merged effort they could achieve much more. The PUC site could be spectacular, hopefully we'll see a stadium to do it justice. Who knows, it might even help kickstart some of the docklands developments (offices/bars/restaurants maybe, probably not residential!). Plus, if the 3 organisations shared a stadium, I reckon there could be a lot of cross-over of fans who start supporting the other sports as well. I've never attended a Cork City or Cork GAA game, and have not much desire to in TC or the existing PUC, to be honest.

I still have a vision of crowds strolling out along a nice new boardwalk along Kennedy Quay, stopping at bars, restaurants along the way. Eventually arriving at a shiny new PUC for a rugby/football/hurling/soccer game. Maybe I'm just dreaming! :crazy:
who_me
Member
 
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 7:15 pm

Re: pairc ui chaoimh

Postby thebig C » Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:48 pm

Hey Guys

Just to echo what has been said....I would love us to put in a bid for the 2023 RWC! However, I will believe it when I see it. Currently, Argentina, USA, Brazil, Russia and Canada are all interested!

In examining Pairc Ui Chaoimh.....it does look like a realistic and achievable plan given the current economic cliamate. However, I do share dissappointment that it won't be a true 360 degree stadium. I've said it before but those planning stadia in Ireland seem to believe that it doesn't rain here!! If done properly PIC has the ability to cater to a wider Munster and Irish audience that Semple Stadium simply cannot!

On a related point, I wish the GAA would abandon the 1920s notion of a stadium being basically a concrete bowl that people stand in. Some of their new constructions such as Limerick hold to this concept. The headline figures for the capacity of GAA stadia are grossly unrealistic because many of them are never full . Surely it would be better, particularly in smaller Counties, to have 10-20k all seater covered stadiums with appropriate factilities which are full every week rather then vast swathes of terracing that fans huddle against the elements on once a year!!!
thebig C
Member
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:55 pm

Re: pairc ui chaoimh

Postby rofbp » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:48 pm

[url]http://gaacork.ie/taggedNews/160509/board_briefed_on_páirc_plans[/url]
No specifics on the design and no pictures, but a planning application in October is mentioned.

Also, mentions €12 million benefit for local economy from each event.
At 45000 capacity, that is €266 per patron! :crazy: :wtf: A plainly ridiculous figure
rofbp
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:44 pm
Location: cork

Previous

Return to Ireland