Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby FXR » Thu Aug 25, 2011 10:36 pm

gintyc wrote: But it’s not 7mins in real time – it’s an edited video. And did you spot all the j-walking pedestrians???!!!


I think you're evidence averse. No matter how much evidence is put before you it's just not enough.

But I could be wrong so here's a test.

The following piece of video is unedited. It's 1 minute 45 seconds shot on O'Connell street. So can you look at it and tell us how many cyclists are in the video and of that number how many do not have any lights, inadequate lighting or badly positioned lighting? This is 1.45 seconds of cycling in Dublin where you can see the same as anyone what is happening and make whatever comments you choose.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxmr7YqWYYE
FXR
Member
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:14 pm

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby cheezypuf » Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:51 pm

FXR wrote: A motorist travelling legally on a one way street who has the mis-fortune of some idiot going the wrong way end up splashing their brains across the windscreen won't be unaffected by it.


Your language and disrespect for the lives of others are disgusting. To post that a few lines under announcing a cyclists’ death with such glee and pleasure again demonstrates your perversion and sickness.

I don’t understand why people are trying to reason with this fool.
cheezypuf
Member
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:11 pm

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby FXR » Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:44 pm

cheezypuf wrote:
FXR wrote: A motorist travelling legally on a one way street who has the mis-fortune of some idiot going the wrong way end up splashing their brains across the windscreen won't be unaffected by it.


Your language and disrespect for the lives of others are disgusting. To post that a few lines under announcing a cyclists’ death with such glee and pleasure again demonstrates your perversion and sickness.

I don’t understand why people are trying to reason with this fool.

You ought to be careful who you go calling a fool especially when you blunder into the middle of a discussion after four pages.
No one actually died so it's not an announcement. You can spare me the opportunistic faux indignation over something completely imaginary. If a graphic of what might happen puts even one cyclists off doing something as idiotic and dangerous as cycling the wrong way into traffic then it may serve a purpose. They do it ever day and there is the evidence to show this right here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkMRHupiXlU There in no city centre street I can thing of that I haven't seen a cyclist going the wrong way on. Cycling without lights at night is just as dangerous and if you do it you're an idiot plain and simple.

It's common among cyclists to claim that cyclists are only endangering themselves and any motorists involved in a collision with a cyclists will always be completely unscathed. That's a myth. I know people who were mentally scarred, had nervous breakdowns and some who never drove again for years. There is also the fact that a bloody accident may be witnessed by anyone from the old to the young. There are also the ambulance and fire services who have to scrape body parts off the road as part of their job.


Have you ever seen a cyclist get killed?
FXR
Member
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:14 pm

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby wearnicehats » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:21 pm

cheezypuf wrote:
FXR wrote: A motorist travelling legally on a one way street who has the mis-fortune of some idiot going the wrong way end up splashing their brains across the windscreen won't be unaffected by it.


Your language and disrespect for the lives of others are disgusting. To post that a few lines under announcing a cyclists’ death with such glee and pleasure again demonstrates your perversion and sickness.

I don’t understand why people are trying to reason with this fool.


FXR has published more than enough evidence to show that cyclists do not, in general, have any regard for their own lives
wearnicehats
Senior Member
 
Posts: 823
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:38 pm

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby spoil_sport » Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:33 pm

So, as I was walking back from my local shop this evening (In London) I watched this bellend cycling with no lights/hi-vis, no helmet and no handed going the wrong way on a narrow and fast moving one way road, reading a text on a phone in his left hand and making a call from another phone in his right hand and then wobbles in front of a car. Unfortunately he managed to avoid it, just. So, FXR, maybe you have a point after all. Some people are muppets, and sometimes these muppets get on a bike (or in a car, or on the footpath). However I still contend that for a cyclist with his/her wits about them, bending a few rules is not a big deal, and a lot of the time it would be silly not to. Responsible cycling, does not necessarily mean pedantically abiding by every law, especially if those laws were made with the motorist in mind, and not the cyclist.

Moving along a bit. I have an issue with the title of this thread. Why doesn't it read "Dublin's Automobile Clutter"? The problem here is clearly not the cyclist, its the car. (For the record, I have a licence, and occasionally do drive and when I drive I do follow all the rules as meant for motorists.) But I cannot think of a single good reason why a city like Dublin could not be car free, after all its no LA. With the exception of deliveries, tradesmen, emergency services and mobility impaired, what average commuter actually needs a car? With a half-decent road bike, any able bodied adult should be able to manage a 10km cycle in no more than 30-40mins, and 10km each way is entirely within reason for a daily commute. For scale that's roughly the distance from Dun Laoighre to St Stephen's Green.

Cars are terrible things in cities, they should be left outside, a busy roadway is as divisive as a river, they pollute and cause congestion, they knock people down. I cannot think of a single negative consequence to a cycle dominant city but plenty of positives, nor can I think of any real reason why it could not be achieved (and no, being lazy and fat and afraid of the rain is not an excuse)
spoil_sport
Member
 
Posts: 230
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:48 pm

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby FXR » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:19 pm

spoil_sport wrote:So, as I was walking back from my local shop this evening (In London) I watched this bellend cycling with no lights/hi-vis, no helmet and no handed going the wrong way on a narrow and fast moving one way road, reading a text on a phone in his left hand and making a call from another phone in his right hand and then wobbles in front of a car. Unfortunately he managed to avoid it, just. So, FXR, maybe you have a point after all. Some people are muppets, and sometimes these muppets get on a bike (or in a car, or on the footpath). However I still contend that for a cyclist with his/her wits about them, bending a few rules is not a big deal, and a lot of the time it would be silly not to. Responsible cycling, does not necessarily mean pedantically abiding by every law, especially if those laws were made with the motorist in mind, and not the cyclist.

Moving along a bit. I have an issue with the title of this thread. Why doesn't it read "Dublin's Automobile Clutter"? The problem here is clearly not the cyclist, its the car. (For the record, I have a licence, and occasionally do drive and when I drive I do follow all the rules as meant for motorists.) But I cannot think of a single good reason why a city like Dublin could not be car free, after all its no LA. With the exception of deliveries, tradesmen, emergency services and mobility impaired, what average commuter actually needs a car? With a half-decent road bike, any able bodied adult should be able to manage a 10km cycle in no more than 30-40mins, and 10km each way is entirely within reason for a daily commute. For scale that's roughly the distance from Dun Laoighre to St Stephen's Green.

Cars are terrible things in cities, they should be left outside, a busy roadway is as divisive as a river, they pollute and cause congestion, they knock people down. I cannot think of a single negative consequence to a cycle dominant city but plenty of positives, nor can I think of any real reason why it could not be achieved (and no, being lazy and fat and afraid of the rain is not an excuse)


It's not a case of the odd cyclist acting recklessly or a few occasions where cyclists mount the footpath to avoid a dangerous situation. In Dublin the vast majority of cyclists go from A to B by the most convenient route regardless of pedestrian areas, rules of the road or the safety of themselves or anyone else. Not one person has provided any evidence to the contrary. The thread is not called Dublin,s Automotive clutter for the same reason it's not called Dublin's Georgian Façades.

Motorists in Dublin pay thousands of euro in taxes, levies and have a myriad of rules and regulations to deal with. If cars were not necessary a lot less people would buy them. The bicycle will never completely replace the car. Pretty soon the powers that be are going to bring in a congestion charge. That still will not take all the cars out of Dublin city centre. There are not enough underpasses or bypassing bridges and not enough space.

Forcing people onto bicycles sounds like Pol Pot decreeing it's back to Year of the Two Wheels. Public transport in Dublin is inadequate to say the least. Dublin does not have a uBahn and the bus timetables seem at times to have been written by Hans Christian Anderson. As bad as it is bus routes are being reduced and as is the number of buses on those routes that remain. Most people don't have jobs where they can arrive soaked to the skin neither can they carry their goods safely on a bicycle. Dublins roads are badly maintained, badly planned, cramped and not regulated enough. Cycle lanes are badly planned to the point of being a joke and drivers park in them while many lanes even pass through bus stops. On top of all this the majority of cyclists do everything they can to make things as dangerous as possible for themselves and others.

In this video you can even see where all the elements combine just in one busy little side street:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi10h5sySkE
FXR
Member
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:14 pm

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby exene1 » Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:10 pm

spoil_sport wrote:So, as I was walking back from my local shop this evening (In London) I watched this bellend cycling with no lights/hi-vis, no helmet and no handed going the wrong way on a narrow and fast moving one way road, reading a text on a phone in his left hand and making a call from another phone in his right hand and then wobbles in front of a car. Unfortunately he managed to avoid it, just. So, FXR, maybe you have a point after all. Some people are muppets, and sometimes these muppets get on a bike (or in a car, or on the footpath). However I still contend that for a cyclist with his/her wits about them, bending a few rules is not a big deal, and a lot of the time it would be silly not to. Responsible cycling, does not necessarily mean pedantically abiding by every law, especially if those laws were made with the motorist in mind, and not the cyclist.

Moving along a bit. I have an issue with the title of this thread. Why doesn't it read "Dublin's Automobile Clutter"? The problem here is clearly not the cyclist, its the car. (For the record, I have a licence, and occasionally do drive and when I drive I do follow all the rules as meant for motorists.) But I cannot think of a single good reason why a city like Dublin could not be car free, after all its no LA. With the exception of deliveries, tradesmen, emergency services and mobility impaired, what average commuter actually needs a car? With a half-decent road bike, any able bodied adult should be able to manage a 10km cycle in no more than 30-40mins, and 10km each way is entirely within reason for a daily commute. For scale that's roughly the distance from Dun Laoighre to St Stephen's Green.

Cars are terrible things in cities, they should be left outside, a busy roadway is as divisive as a river, they pollute and cause congestion, they knock people down. I cannot think of a single negative consequence to a cycle dominant city but plenty of positives, nor can I think of any real reason why it could not be achieved (and no, being lazy and fat and afraid of the rain is not an excuse)
Image
User avatar
exene1
Member
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:26 pm

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby cheezypuf » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:49 pm

wearnicehats wrote:FXR has published more than enough evidence to show that cyclists do not, in general, have any regard for their own lives


That's a matter of opinion not of fact. It's not an opinion I share. He's put up various videos of cyclists behaving badly. If any of the rest of us had as little to do with our time we could post videos of other road users doing the same. What is an indisputable fact is that some cyclists behave dangerously, some don't. The same can be said for taxis, busses, pedestrians, motorists, unicyclists, hovercraft operators and all the other people that move around our streets. His perverse obsession with deamonising and ranting about the evils of cyclists is childish and devoid of any useful purpose.

Whether it's a lust for cycling taxation, describing them as suicidal or whining about having to see locked bicycles in public it's clear the issue is he hates cyclists and is not open to discussion. There's not much to talk about as FXR has no meaningful solutions to the problems he highlights apart from sending all cyclists to Leitrim and floating it off the coast. It's always a shame when someone becomes so blinded by their obsession they loose the ability to make a contribution.
cheezypuf
Member
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:11 pm

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby FXR » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:49 pm

cheezypuf wrote:
wearnicehats wrote:FXR has published more than enough evidence to show that cyclists do not, in general, have any regard for their own lives


That's a matter of opinion not of fact. It's not an opinion I share. He's put up various videos of cyclists behaving badly. If any of the rest of us had as little to do with our time we could post videos of other road users doing the same. What is an indisputable fact is that some cyclists behave dangerously, some don't. The same can be said for taxis, busses, pedestrians, motorists, unicyclists, hovercraft operators and all the other people that move around our streets. His perverse obsession with deamonising and ranting about the evils of cyclists is childish and devoid of any useful purpose.

You seem to have comprehension problem with evidence. What I observe every day in the city which is that the majority of cyclist in Dublin go from A to B with no regard for laws, pedestrian areas, regulations, their own safety or the safety of others, is backed up by an ample body of evidence. What is a fact about cyclists behaviour is not contradicted or refuted by any amount of behaviour by anyone else. All you can come up with is vague opinions that you haven't backed up with anything at all. Rather childishly you think you can just make unreferenced statements, immature jibes, snide small minded remarks and imagine they form some sort of argument on their own. They don't.
cheezypuf wrote:Whether it's a lust for cycling taxation, describing them as suicidal or whining about having to see locked bicycles in public it's clear the issue is he hates cyclists and is not open to discussion. There's not much to talk about as FXR has no meaningful solutions to the problems he highlights apart from sending all cyclists to Leitrim and floating it off the coast. It's always a shame when someone becomes so blinded by their obsession they loose the ability to make a contribution.

You'd be better off to read a thread before crashing into the tail end making ill informed cheese puff statements like that. Since you're accusing me of not proposing any solutions then I take it you'll eat your words like a big boy if that's shown to be incorrect? Railing like a scalded cat because the evidence is too hard to take won't save any lives or solve any problems. It's also more than a bit dumb to be making out there are no problems with the way cyclists behave and then start crowing about "meaningful solutions" before going off into imaginary scenarios that you've manufactured all on your own. If you'd looked at the videos and then checked the list of other videos you'd see there are a whole range of subjects covered all to do with Dublin. If anyone is blinded or obsessed here it's you. Hopefully you'll never progress from a bicycle to a HGV because if you do we'er all in trouble.
FXR
Member
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:14 pm

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby Satrastar » Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:42 pm

The road traffic management system has been made for cars only with virtually no regard to cyclists. This is in evidence in the following respects.

1. One way roads are one way in order to manage motorised vehicle traffic. No contra-flow is evidence of lack of consideration for the existence of cyclists.

2. There would be no need for traffic lights if cyclists were the only vehicles

3. Cyclists cannot negotiate traffic the same way cars can as they cannot move at the same speed. You can't pull out two lanes in order to make a right turn. The only way to do this legally is to dismount and walk; in effect, to turn yourself into a pedestrian.

The road that I cycle into town (R118) is also a bus lane, which both the bus and the cyclist can't both fit into. The bus can't overtake when the road is full of traffic jams, which it always is during rush hour. The only practical solution is to try and cycle onto the path (which is sparsely populated and it is completely safe to do this - in my opinion) and let the bus pass.

On any normal road, even when not on a cycle lane, parked cars force you to pull out and usually to do this safely means you have to slow down and look behind you or stop completely.

This is ridiculous.

I am a cyclist who also drives and pays motor tax on two different cars. How dare you patronise people who cycle by implying that you are paying for their existence on the road!

As I drive often too, I realise that cyclists can be annoying even when they are obeying the law - especially when they are obeying the law- as they are much slower than cars (understandably), they get in the way when you are trying to turn left (as most of them have considerately kept to the left side of the road, and many other reasons.
However all of this is irrelevant as none of it is the fault of cyclists.

This road tax paying citizen says: Roads are not exclusively for cars!
Where the hell did you get the idea that roads are for cars only in the first place?

FXR, your entire attitude is so very wrong in this respect and many others.

Why don't you even address the points or anybody else made? Why do you resort to such stupid remarks as "the lycra crowd"?

Do you not accept that for every cyclist breaking the law, there are plenty motorists breaking them too? Motorists break the law in heavy, metal objects that travel at high speed.

You say that you realise how dangerous it is to be a cyclist in Dublin. You say that it is because of this that you don't cycle in Dublin. But then you ignore that point.
What about it? Do you think it's acceptable that Dublin should be so dangerous for cyclists? It seems as if you do, given the fact that you do not develop upon your statement.

I found it hilarious that you wrote that you were "too tired" to address GrahamH's entire post, and then proceeded to blather on for so long. Who are you anyway, that you are declining radio programmes? Why is your opinion so sought after?

You are right to decline the radio programme anyway as your loathsome self-importance and the massive chip on your shoulder would be obvious.

As would your disinterest in engaging in any real discussion about it.
Satrastar
Member
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:07 pm

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby FXR » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:06 pm

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
Last edited by FXR on Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FXR
Member
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:14 pm

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby FXR » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:08 pm

Satrastar wrote: The road traffic management system has been made for cars only with virtually no regard to cyclists. This is in evidence in the following respects.
1. One way roads are one way in order to manage motorised vehicle traffic. No contra-flow is evidence of lack of consideration for the existence of cyclists.

2. There would be no need for traffic lights if cyclists were the only vehicles

3. Cyclists cannot negotiate traffic the same way cars can as they cannot move at the same speed. You can't pull out two lanes in order to make a right turn. The only way to do this legally is to dismount and walk; in effect, to turn yourself into a pedestrian.
The road that I cycle into town (R118) is also a bus lane, which both the bus and the cyclist can't both fit into. The bus can't overtake when the road is full of traffic jams, which it always is during rush hour. The only practical solution is to try and cycle onto the path (which is sparsely populated and it is completely safe to do this - in my opinion) and let the bus pass.
On any normal road, even when not on a cycle lane, parked cars force you to pull out and usually to do this safely means you have to slow down and look behind you or stop completely.
This is ridiculous.

It's resorting to fantasy land to make assertions based on a world where there were only bicycles. Why not go all the way and say if everyone had helicopters we wouldn't need roads. Have you noticed that the only person to provide evidence of a badly designed cycle lane was me? I've also pointed out how badly designed the roads are and how badly planned the location of bike stands are but you seem to have missed that. I've also said that the ultimate blame lies with the city planners. I've also suggested cases for lowering fines for cyclists. Did you notice that one?

Satrastar wrote:I am a cyclist who also drives and pays motor tax on two different cars. How dare you patronise people who cycle by implying that you are paying for their existence on the road!
As I drive often too, I realise that cyclists can be annoying even when they are obeying the law - especially when they are obeying the law- as they are much slower than cars (understandably), they get in the way when you are trying to turn left (as most of them have considerately kept to the left side of the road, and many other reasons.
However all of this is irrelevant as none of it is the fault of cyclists.

You've evaded any mention of the voluntary reckless behaviour that is the fault of cyclists themselves. Have you looked at the videos of cyclists without lights at night or cyclists travelling the wrong way on one way streets into traffic?
Satrastar wrote:This road tax paying citizen says: Roads are not exclusively for cars!
Where the hell did you get the idea that roads are for cars only in the first place?


That's quite a muddled non sequitur. That you pay road tax on a car and have a bicycle is not an answer to the argument that cyclists pay no specific charge or levy as a result of owning and operating a bicycle. Quote where I said roads are for cars only? Some of your conclusions are just bizarre.

Satrastar wrote: FXR, your entire attitude is so very wrong in this respect and many others.
Why don't you even address the points or anybody else made? Why do you resort to such stupid remarks as "the lycra crowd"?


Quote exactly where I used the term "lycra crowd" or apologise. You're quoting another person and mixing them up with me.

Satrastar wrote:Do you not accept that for every cyclist breaking the law, there are plenty motorists breaking them too? Motorists break the law in heavy, metal objects that travel at high speed.


That's been dealt with a number of times on this thread. Wearnicehats already addressed it as did I myself. This is not the Lisbon Treaty; bringing the same thing up again and again is not going to get a different answer. Someone caught shoplifting can't be justified by the fact there are bank robbers.
Satrastar wrote: You say that you realise how dangerous it is to be a cyclist in Dublin. You say that it is because of this that you don't cycle in Dublin. But then you ignore that point.
What about it? Do you think it's acceptable that Dublin should be so dangerous for cyclists? It seems as if you do, given the fact that you do not develop upon your statement.


In light of the fact that I appear to be the only one with any evidence regarding the dangerous situation that pertains to cycling in Dublin your conclusions are just plain weird. You've evaded the fact that cyclists exacerbate an already dangerous situation by their own behaviour. Why don't you address that?

Satrastar wrote: I found it hilarious that you wrote that you were "too tired" to address GrahamH's entire post, and then proceeded to blather on for so long. Who are you anyway, that you are declining radio programmes? Why is your opinion so sought after?


You're easily amused. No wonder there's so much money in Stand Up. Point out where I said I was "too tired" to address GramaH's entire post. What you read and what you see are two different things.
Satrastar wrote:You are right to decline the radio programme anyway as your loathsome self-importance and the massive chip on your shoulder would be obvious.
As would your disinterest in engaging in any real discussion about it.


That's really convoluted logic. I turn down 5 offers to go on radio and one to go on TV and your conclusion is I'm suffering from self-importance. Well I ain't no big city lawyer but that thar jes sounds plain whacky tah me sonny!
FXR
Member
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:14 pm

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby FXR » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:17 pm

Is anyone esle having trouble with this website. I press the "enter" key when replying to a post and Google Chrome loses the page. I tried switching to Internet Explorer and it lost the page when I pressed preview. It's taken almost an hour to post the above reply. I'm alsot getting time out errors and server busy errors.
FXR
Member
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:14 pm

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby Satrastar » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:38 pm

The Lisbon treaty comment is pretty stupid; (apart from the obvious fact that the Lisbon did get a different answer the second time)
I mentioned the already mentioned points in full awareness that they had already been made, in order to demonstrate that you never addressed them properly.

That helicopter comment is equally pathetic. My original comment stated that roads are not for cars only. You then implied that I said that they were only for bicycles and this is completely false. You know that, but intentionally misrepresent my comments.

You haven't addressed anything properly.

I haven't evaded mention of the reckless cyclists. I don't deny they exist. Reckless drivers exist too. Corrupt police exist. Negligent doctors exist too.

You have filmed several individual incidents of reckless cyclists and on that basis, you expect us all to believe that cyclists as a group are reckless. This is a sign of your stupidity or a sign that you think we are all stupid. Either way, I have finished feeding trolls.
Satrastar
Member
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:07 pm

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby wearnicehats » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:57 pm

There would be no need for traffic lights if cyclists were the only vehicles :lolno: brilliant. ahhh dear

Why don't you even address the points or anybody else made? Why do you resort to such stupid remarks as "the lycra crowd"?

actually that was me - I was being flippant - it's a thing I do.

I love the indignance of all this - the persecution complex, the "well everyone else is doing it why shouldn't we" cavalier indifference to life

Oh by the way - classic one yesterday. Lights turn green. Car A at the lights starts off then slams on the brakes. Car B behind misses Car A by a slither. The reason?

2 cyclists riding the wrong way up a one way street..............

.............On the footpath...............

..........breaking the pedestrian "do not cross" red man (they obviously couldn't see the traffic red light as they were going the wrong way

BUT GET THIS - both cyclists were policemen.

you're a joke lads
Last edited by wearnicehats on Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
wearnicehats
Senior Member
 
Posts: 823
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:38 pm

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby wearnicehats » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:58 pm

double post deleted
wearnicehats
Senior Member
 
Posts: 823
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:38 pm

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby FXR » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:14 pm

Satrastar wrote: The Lisbon treaty comment is pretty stupid; (apart from the obvious fact that the Lisbon did get a different answer the second time)
I mentioned the already mentioned points in full awareness that they had already been made, in order to demonstrate that you never addressed them properly. And you're calling me stupid!
That helicopter comment is equally pathetic. My original comment stated that roads are not for cars only. You then implied that I said that they were only for bicycles and this is completely false. You know that, but intentionally misrepresent my comments.


See the answer by Wearnicehats which put's that to bed.

Satrastar wrote:You haven't addressed anything properly.

The problem appears to be you can't recognise it when it happens which is probably why you think it didn't.
Satrastar wrote:I haven't evaded mention of the reckless cyclists. I don't deny they exist. Reckless drivers exist too. Corrupt police exist. Negligent doctors exist too.

There you go off into the same meaningless statement again. You are attempting to hide the fact the vast majority of cyclists behave as I've described more than enough times. All you can do is make unreferenced blanket generalisations that don't mean anything or even make any attempt at facing the problem. Then you had the brass neck to claim I wasn't proposing any solutions. Of course you've avoided the answer I gave you the last time you tried that one.
Satrastar wrote:You have filmed several individual incidents of reckless cyclists and on that basis, you expect us all to believe that cyclists as a group are reckless. This is a sign of your stupidity or a sign that you think we are all stupid. Either way, I have finished feeding trolls.

No you haven't finished, it's more like you're getting out of Dodge with your pants on fire. I've provided more than enough evidence and you've come up with zero. If you had actually looked at the evidence you'd know how ridiculous and downright stupid it is to quantify a few hundred cyclists breaking the law, acting recklessly, endangering themselves and others as...and this is really as stupid as it gets...."several individuals". You are also such a spineless individual that even though, as Wearnicehats has pointed out, you get something completely wrong you can't even admit it. Then after being completely deflated after acting more like a troll than a little blue man from Scandinavian you start calling us trolls. I'd suggest you pass your own comments before a mirror before posting them.

And in the next post more evidence just for the record. Roll it there Colette...
FXR
Member
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:14 pm

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby exene1 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:34 pm

C.'mon, leave it over FXR !! .... everyone is sickaya now. Ya made yer point long ago.
User avatar
exene1
Member
 
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:26 pm

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby FXR » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:49 pm

A documentary maker I'm working with on another long term project (nothing to do with cyclists) thinks a TV company might be interested in doing a program about cycling in Dublin (I don't think so but however). As part of a possible presentation he's been going through the dated folders of photos and pulling out data. It's not finished but it gives a timed record of cyclists behaviour in Dublin. The dates and times are recorded in the meta data of each camera. The area the photos were take was between Hueston station in the West, Lombard street in the East, Parnell street in the North and Stephen's Green Sth. It should be possible to track what one person observed while walking a particular route through the city. Some of the time spans are short and some are longer. The times and days were not chosen specially or for any particular event or occasion that might show an unusual level of cyclists activity. Everything the data was drawn from is available for any interested party to examine.

All the records below are backed up by photographs. The meta data of each photo can be checked as recorded in the camera. All three cameras were Nikon D90’s. Keep in mind this is only the cyclists who were photographed and can be seen clearly behaving in the way recorded. Many were not photographed and some photos were deleted because of blurring and other quality problems.


7 April 2011 Thursday
17.59 to 20.00 Millennium Pedestrian Bridge, 84 mounted cyclists photographed crossing the pedestrian bridge averaging 1 cyclist every 86 seconds.

11 April 2011 Wednesday
18.31 to 19.30 Millennium Pedestrian Bridge, Wellington Quay, 40 cyclists cross the bridge averaging 1 cyclist every 88.5 seconds (see total below), 10 cyclists break red lights on the Quay. 1 cyclist travels to the Ha’penny Bridge on the narrow footpath Total average number of cyclist breaking the law is 1 every 70 seconds.

12 April 2011 Tuesday
14.59 to 16.07 Dame St to Sean O’Casey Bridge to O’Connell Bridge
11 cyclists break red lights on Dame St, 3 cyclists cross Sean O’Casey Bridge, 1 cyclists breaks red light at Eden Quay, 1 cyclist crosses Butt Bridge on the footpath,
2 cyclists cross O’Connell Bridge on the wrong side, 4 cyclists break red lights on either side of O’Connell Bridge.
17.20 to 18.18 The Millennium Bridge, 33 cyclists cross the pedestrian bridge, some cycle into the Millennium Walkway while others travel the wrong way up the quays to Jervis street or cycle on the narrow footpath. Average number of cyclists breaking the law is 1 every 1.75 minutes.

16 April 2011 Saturday
16.22 to 16.57 O’Connell Bridge: cyclists on footpath, breaking red lights, cyclists in moving traffic on the wrong side of the road entering Trinity College.

14 April 2011 Thursday
17.28 to 17.29 Dublin City Council offices, Wood Quay, 2 cyclists leave the Dublin City Council car park and cycle on the footpath while another cyclists breaks the red light at Wood Quay.
17.32 Christchurch, A cyclist breaks the light.
20.29 Eustace Street Two cyclists without lights travel the wrong way and into Dame St.

17 April 2011 Sunday
15.44 to 15.58 Fleet St, one cyclist comes the wrong way into Westmoreland St. College Green, 3 cyclists break red lights, 1 cyclist comes the wrong way from Nassau St into heavy traffic on College Green, 2 cyclists cross solid white line into Nassau St from Grafton St.
16.03 to 16.20 Grafton St, 4 mounted cyclists travel on pedestrian area,
16.27 Dame St cyclists breaks red light.
16.55 to 18.09 Four Courts 2 cyclists travel on the footpath. 4 cyclists travel the wrong way on the North Quays
18.42 to 20.04 Millennium bridge: 23 cyclists crossing the pedestrian bridge, cycling into the Millennium Walkway, cycling on the footpath and going the wrong way up the quays. Average for cyclist crossing the bridge is one every 3.5 minutes.

18 April 2011 Monday
13.34 to 13.35: Abbey Street Upper 3 mounted cyclists on Luas tracks

22 April 2011 Friday
13.35 to 13.40: Abbey St Upper 7 mounted cyclists on Luas tracks
13.49 to 13.49: Millennium Walkway 2 mounted cyclists in pedestrian area.
14.33 to 14.38: Henry St 3 mounted cyclists in pedestrian area
15.08 to 15.33: O’Connell St 4 mounted cyclists in pedestrian area

24 April 2011 Sunday
11.50 Ellis Quay 1 cyclists turns the wrong way from Marlborough St.
12.01 Marlborough St cyclist on footpath
12.02 Marlborough St cyclist with child illegally turns into pedestrianised Cathedral St
15.17 Ormond Quay cyclist on narrow footpath
15.38 to 17.33 Millennium Walkway 8 mounted cyclists in the pedestrian area
17.58 Westmoreland St cyclist breaks red light on O’Connell Bridge

25 April 2011 Easter Monday
17.14 to 19.52 Millennium Bridge and Walkway, 55 cyclists on the footpath, the bridge and the walkway.
15.04 to 16.31 South King St Grafton St, Stephens Green area, 87 cyclists in pedestrian areas, going the wrong way, cycling into Stephens Green averaging 1 cyclist per minute breaking the law.
20.05 to 20.22 Temple Bar to Westmoreland St cyclists on footpath, breaking red lights and wrong way on one way streets

28 April 2011 Thursday
9.06 to 9.26 The North Quays, 1 accident involving cyclist, red light breaking, cyclists on footpath
9.28 to 10.30 Millennium area 32 cyclists on the pedestrian bridge, wrong way on the quays, on the footpath and in the walkway averaging 1 cyclists every 2 minutes
11.33 to 11.46 Dawson St cyclists going the wrong way into traffic, cycling on the footpath
12.01 to 12.24 Molesworth St to Grafton St, cyclists in pedestrian area, horse panics
12.55 to 13.15 Castle St, Georges St wrong way, red light, footpath
13.19 to 13.23 South King St 13 cyclists in pedestrian area averaging 1 cyclist every 18.5 seconds
13.29 to 13.33 Stephens Green cyclists wrong way
13.52 to 14.18 Stephens Green North 28 cyclists on footpath averaging 1 cyclist every 53 seconds.
14.49 Dawson St a cyclists going the wrong way into oncoming traffic
15.00 to 16.19 Baggott St Merrion Row, 17 cyclists travelling the wrong way into heavy traffic and cycling on the footpath
16.29 Kildare St cyclist going the wrong way into traffic
16.33 Kildare St cyclist going the wrong way into traffic
17.01 to 18.56 Millennium Bridge area 94 cyclists cross the bridge, cycle in the pedestrian walkway and/or cycle on the footpath averaging 1 cyclist every 55 seconds

29 April 2011 Friday
15.27 to 15.48 Andrew St, South William St, 7 cyclists travelling the wrong way into traffic, cyclist on the footpath, badly planned cycle lane in Andrew St.
14.15 to 15.01 Sean O’Casey pedestrian bridge, 41 cyclists crossed the bridge in 46 minutes averaging 1 cyclists every 68 seconds. This was a quiet bank holiday Friday in the IFSC.
13.36 to 13.42 Jervis St Millennium Walkway, Luas line, cyclists going the wrong way, on the footpath, in pedestrian areas.
15.16 to 15.18 College Green D’Olier St junction, 5 cyclists break red lights in 2 minutes, 1 cyclist on footpath
16.00 to 16.57 South William St, Stephen St Lwr, 26 cyclists travelling the wrong way into traffic, cycling on the footpath and ignoring traffic signs.
17.01 to 17.09 South King St 24 mounted cyclists travel on the pedestrian street in 8 minutes averaging 1 cyclist every 21 seconds

6 May 2011 Friday
17.40 to 18.03 Jervis St Ormond Quay 21 mounted cyclists going the wrong way, on the footpath and on the bridge averaging 1 cyclist every 66 seconds.

The majority of cyclists in Dublin go from A to B without any regard for pedestrians, rules of the road, their own safety or the safety of others.

Quod erat demonstrandum.
FXR
Member
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:14 pm

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby GrahamH » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:06 pm

No FXR, your conclusion is wrong.

Many cyclists use the Millenium Bridge, footpaths and break some rules of the road such as floating through red pedestrian lights, precisely to make matters safer for themselves, to avoid dangerous junctions, to get ahead of traffic, or avoid hostile places such as the quays.

Secondly, one may break every rule in the book and still have the utmost regard and respect for pedestrians by the nature of how one cycles.

Again FXR, your sweeping statements do you zero favours.
GrahamH
Old Master
 
Posts: 4590
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:24 am
Location: Ireland

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby FXR » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:18 pm

exene1 wrote:C.'mon, leave it over FXR !! .... everyone is sickaya now. Ya made yer point long ago.


And what's been solved? Nothing.

The original idea was to first identify the problem, then identify the causes and then to come up with solutions. That's never going to happen. This is Ireland after all. A tiny fraction of what it costs to build a cycle lane and a three week campaign could make all the difference. I told Joe Duffy's researcher where to go because the show was just going to be yet another "I saw one do this and I saw one do that" farce. That's exactly what happened on Friday the 17th of June. It's like the Gerry Springer show without the shouting and the tattoos.

The people ultimately responsible here are those who run the city. If any single group is allowed to do whatever they like, travel the road unqualified and take any sort of risks regardless then that's just what they'll do.

In the future under present policy, with the blind push to put more and more cyclists on the road, unregulated and without proper facilities, someone will be killed, injured or severely traumatised. The pedestrian environment will get worse and the city will see bikes left all over the place. You can bet on it.
FXR
Member
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:14 pm

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby FXR » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:35 pm

GrahamH wrote:No FXR, your conclusion is wrong.

Many cyclists use the Millenium Bridge, footpaths and break some rules of the road such as floating through red pedestrian lights, precisely to make matters safer for themselves, to avoid dangerous junctions, to get ahead of traffic, or avoid hostile places such as the quays.

Secondly, one may break every rule in the book and still have the utmost regard and respect for pedestrians by the nature of how one cycles.

Again FXR, your sweeping statements do you zero favours.


Showing a regard for pedestrians would mean not cycling over pedestrian bridges, on narrow footpaths, in narrow pedestrian walkways, on crowed pedestrian streets, coming the wrong way through red lights (where the pedestrians are instructed to look in the other direction). It's an evasive twist to excuse all that by putting regard for pedestrian as being less important than cyclists (who could easily dismount as a minority of them do) because the cyclists are only making things safer for themselves so stuff the pedestrians. It's a bit like excusing a moped for driving on the footpath because there are too many potholes. If they did it slowly and carefully with "the utmost regard for pedestrians" they'd be laughed out of court. It's also an evasive sidestep to mention breaking every rule in the book as only being relative to pedestrians. The majority of cyclists break every rule in the book on or off the road. I didn't make a sweeping statement: I made a statement based n the evidence as shown.

Your'e welcome to come up with evidence to the contrary which so far no one has even attempted.
FXR
Member
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:14 pm

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby FXR » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:41 pm

By the way Graham, balloons float, cyclists don't. Next we know they'll be "hovering" the wrong way up one way streets, "twiddling" over pedestrian bridges and "sailing" along narrow footpaths.
FXR
Member
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:14 pm

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby cheezypuf » Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:26 pm

Image
cheezypuf
Member
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:11 pm

Re: Dublin's Bicycle Clutter

Postby FXR » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:33 pm

It's much easier for a child to play with cartoons than actually deal with a serious problem that regularly leads to death or injury. It's much handier than coming up with some evidence or being adult enough to take your foot back out of your mouth when you've rammed it down your throat in public. Cheese puff must be a reference to your cranium contents.
FXR
Member
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 9:14 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Ireland



cron