Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby PVC King » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:28 am

Has anyone costed what it would take to create a World class museum at this location?

Being purely cynical, you remodel a traffic free College Green, pack it full of cafes and use it soften up tourists going between the north and south retail cores to spend more money on their weekend breaks; on important civic occiasions you have one of the best public spaces in Europe.

Why gunther that by linking it to an unfundable museum project when all it takes is to strong arm the BoI to give better public access as we move closer to a more paperless financial system and the security risks that paper money creates diminish.

Temple Bar cultural quarter of Museums.
Hueston Gate cultural quarter of Museums
Smithfield cultural quarter of Museums
DDDA cultural quarter of Museums

Just pedestrianise College Green and actually do it.......
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby missarchi » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:38 pm

The traffic arguements for college green are flawed...
If there are no kerbs and just bollards ect the designs and traffic flows can be changed when required.
It can go from being completely closed of to open to limited traffic including cars.

I think the mueseum or what ever you want to call it is a little bit of a distration.
You can look to the past but the future might be a little more important.
There is no issue with the bank maintaining a very small presence providing rent ect.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Punchbowl » Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:34 am

The danger with the the Bank of Ireland is that you remove a functioning historic buiding and replace it with a museum/tourist site that requires money to keep it running.. All the best ideas in the world cannot predict the future, and it could easily turn into a segregated museum/coffee shop/tourist office/hotel, that rather than being the centerpeice of the whole gig, turns out to be a multi-business interest.. I'm slightly against the idea, unless the National Museum moves in, and even then, only if the 'plaza' is in fact that, and not a semi-paved ared with Luas running through it...
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby missarchi » Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:44 am

College green can only handle half a luas line with no wires...
Even then it's completly pushing it...
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Cathal Dunne » Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:33 pm

How about we use the Old Parliament Building as a venue for show trials of the bankers, developers and politicians who have us in the mess we're now in?
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby weehamster » Tue Jul 12, 2011 7:52 pm

Cathal Dunne wrote:How about we use the Old Parliament Building as a venue for show trials of the bankers, developers and politicians who have us in the mess we're now in?

What a splendid idea. :thumbup:
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby missarchi » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:49 pm

"How about we use the Old Parliament Building as a venue for show trials of the bankers, developers and politicians who have us in the mess we're now in?"

I think your forgeting they all have accounts with banks which allows leverage and credit default swaps...
Bankers,politians,developers ect might be more transparent if they had a special bank and they could not hold any assets/liabilitys outside it.
Of course any one in the public has access to records and you can claim the accounts if you find errors.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/fin ... 58272.html
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby missarchi » Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:08 am

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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby rumpelstiltskin » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:18 am

That article argues against something which not a single person has ever suggested - that this project would somehow rescue Ireland. Improving College Green and doing something better with the Bank of Ireland are actually about improving the quality of life in Dublin and creating a capital city we can be proud of - in both good and bad times. You can travel to places all over Europe which are a lot poorer than Ireland and see a higher quality of life in cities due to the presence of livable public spaces. And even if you didn't attach importance to that, it's about time we had a capital city that had the ceremonial grandeur of most capital cities, that represents the solidity of our nation even in troubled times.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby PVC King » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:11 pm

I agree that an enhanced environment would increase the quality of life of residents of and visitors to the city; the journey from Grafton Street to O'Connell Street could not be any less pleasant. The problem is simple, a misconception that it is ok to turn the centre of the City into an unregulated bus station and arterial traffic route for people going from suburb to suburb.

What I do not get is why the Bank of Ireland needs to become a museum

National Museum of Ireland has two great museums at Kildare Street and Collins Barricks which are free and not critisicised.

National Gallery of Ireland / NCAD which have high level art to the requisite standard; if there is a gap for more culture it is at a much lower level in terms of providing exhibition space for emerging art.

National Parliment - didn't Piggygate not symbolise what is really important in Irish politics - distractions from dealing with what is actually important.....

Close the linear bus station...... Let the bank repay the billions that are owed, they won't be able to that without premises.....
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Cathal Dunne » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:42 pm

In terms of culture it could be turned into a new home for the Abbey. The old parliamentary chambers could be remodelled as theatres.

Another idea would be as a new home for Dublin City Council. Again, the parliamentary chambers could be occupied by our elected representatives. A directly elected Mayor could have their offices here too. Given that there are a number of major MNCs looking for large, high-profile offices in the city, the current Civic Offices could be sold to them.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby PVC King » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:00 pm

There is one decent room in 2 College Green the great banking hall and former legislature; it is too small to accomodate an opera in any event the NCH or Liebskind theatres are both far superior.

For good or bad Bank of Ireland have made this home; carried out a number of pre 1963 modifications which work for them but are not text book; this is a building of European importance and is the last building anyone with half an once of conservation respect wants to see compromised by inserting a new use into. If this were off Place Vendome then perhaps a private hotel might work; At this location no other bid rent would come within the distance of Listowel to the Leprechaun museum of creating the budget to interfere with a use that has earned its keep over roughly 200 years. Where would you put the Bank of Ireland's South inner city main branch if they are deprived of this one for a whimsical vanity project; they sold their old one across the road 7-8 years ago and don't have another major branch close to this in Dublin 2.

On the Civic offices they are a materpiece of segregated use civic architecture; STW really rescued a gunthered execution of a goof Stephenson concept built on the wrong site; no private corporation wants this type of architecture; Tara Street off the plan with the ability to heavily influence final detailing is what a large corporate wants.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby markpb » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:28 pm

Cathal Dunne wrote:In terms of culture it could be turned into a new home for the Abbey. The old parliamentary chambers could be remodelled as theatres.

Another idea would be as a new home for Dublin City Council. Again, the parliamentary chambers could be occupied by our elected representatives. A directly elected Mayor could have their offices here too. Given that there are a number of major MNCs looking for large, high-profile offices in the city, the current Civic Offices could be sold to them.


I seriously doubt that BoI would be suitable as a theatre without substantial changes. For one, a two story fly box would need to built on top of one of the chambers!

Secondly, I doubt that there's enough space there to hold all the DCC staff. Perhaps if combined with the office building beside it on Westmoreland St but id imagine that would need significant renovation
There would also be the loss of public space used for talks and displays and the loss of the amphitheatre and outdoor areas used for festivals.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Cathal Dunne » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:47 pm

PVC King wrote:There is one decent room in 2 College Green the great banking hall and former legislature; it is too small to accomodate an opera in any event the NCH or Liebskind theatres are both far superior.


Righteo, that's that ruled out then.

For good or bad Bank of Ireland have made this home; carried out a number of pre 1963 modifications which work for them but are not text book; this is a building of European importance and is the last building anyone with half an once of conservation respect wants to see compromised by inserting a new use into. If this were off Place Vendome then perhaps a private hotel might work; At this location no other bid rent would come within the distance of Listowel to the Leprechaun museum of creating the budget to interfere with a use that has earned its keep over roughly 200 years. Where would you put the Bank of Ireland's South inner city main branch if they are deprived of this one for a whimsical vanity project; they sold their old one across the road 7-8 years ago and don't have another major branch close to this in Dublin 2.


Tough. They and the rest of their ilk have bankrupted the country and giving up this building is a good way for them to express gratitude to the people of Ireland for all the billions they injected into the bank to keep it operational. Some public function for the Old Parliament Building is likely to be the only return we see from the rescue of the banks.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby missarchi » Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:53 am

Cathal Dunne wrote:Righteo, that's that ruled out then.


Not really metro north could have the college green stop or provide a celluar arch that would suit a place of entertainment.

So say BOI stay in some form what should the rent be?

1,000,000 a month or is that to cheap?

If for BXD they did not build the additional bridge over the liffey the money could help the redesigning college green...
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby missarchi » Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:55 am

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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby PVC King » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:08 am

Cathal Dunne wrote:Tough. They and the rest of their ilk have bankrupted the country and giving up this building is a good way for them to express gratitude to the people of Ireland for all the billions they injected into the bank to keep it operational. Some public function for the Old Parliament Building is likely to be the only return we see from the rescue of the banks.



I am looking at the Superquinn collapse 24 supermarkets, €400m in debt, I think all bankers involved in that deal should not still be in employment and should be banned from ever working in a financially regulated environment again. However there is a real danger at this point of the cycle of 'going after the banks' rather than the specific bankers who made the banks the zombie banks that they are; it is not the retail bank network that took the banks down it is the top 50 NAMA debtors of which at least 30 of whom the president of the SCS had never heard of before the list was published; does that not strike you as strange; leading valuer has never heard of 60% of top debtors? 24 supermarkets and 3 banks syndicate a loan of €400m to a business with no other income stream to cover the debt; as the FT said last weekend; Crazy lending...... Crazy taxpayer to keep any of the people responsible employed in a loss making bank.

2 College Green is a building that houses a bank branch a coincidence but no more than that.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Cathal Dunne » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:58 pm

PVC King wrote:

I am looking at the Superquinn collapse 24 supermarkets, €400m in debt, I think all bankers involved in that deal should not still be in employment and should be banned from ever working in a financially regulated environment again. However there is a real danger at this point of the cycle of 'going after the banks' rather than the specific bankers who made the banks the zombie banks that they are; it is not the retail bank network that took the banks down it is the top 50 NAMA debtors of which at least 30 of whom the president of the SCS had never heard of before the list was published; does that not strike you as strange; leading valuer has never heard of 60% of top debtors? 24 supermarkets and 3 banks syndicate a loan of €400m to a business with no other income stream to cover the debt; as the FT said last weekend; Crazy lending...... Crazy taxpayer to keep any of the people responsible employed in a loss making bank.


Who says we have to choose? Those people should be pursued and made account for their folly. At the same time the Old Parliament Building can return to public use as a gesture of atonement by Bank of Ireland. The discussion should now be what public use that should be.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby PVC King » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:21 pm

Serving the interest of taxpayers in their capacity as shareholders of Bank of Ireland...

Examining who made the crisis happen and jailing them makes far more sense than venting anger on a building that not only would have to be replaced at full market costs of acquisition and fit out not to mention the significant 8 figure sum it would cost get any other use right in this building. Think Millenium Dome London if you want to see a great national project go from 'World Class Science Museum' to concert venue to great cultural icons such as Madness....

The key to College Green is pedestrianising it, encouraging cafe culture, taking more business rates and providing more enjoyment to the citizens of and visitors to the City. It is vital that An Bord make a third rail system a condition of any planning grant for the Luas link up / Luas to Ballymun
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby PVC King » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:49 pm

Trafalgar Square is not a particularly pleasant public space due to its configuration and heavy traffic load on two of its sides. College Green has the capacity to be far more like Las Ramblas in Barcelona http://www.barcelona-tourist-guide.com/ ... mblas.html in that it could be calmer and yet less contrived; don't get me wrong London is a far better City than Barcelona any day but Trafalgar Square is a location that few Londoners use other than those taking trains from Charing Cross. Think organic atmosphere that morphs in an unplanned way post pedestrianisation
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby missarchi » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:28 pm

College green can be a much more intimate space that you stumble apon...
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby StephenC » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:19 pm

I had just been considering the plight of poor College Green, 5 months after it was cleared for the Obamathon, when lo and behold I noticed a DCC Lights work crew (on Sunday) out and about this morning installing Scotch lamp standards in a typically haphazard manner around the square. So far there is one on the median (not centred like the one removed for Obama, but to the side - probably requiring the removal of another granite flagstone) and one at the corner of Foster Place.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby StephenC » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:33 pm

Im also wondering what happened to Abercrombie & Fitch
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby PVC King » Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:59 pm

There was an article in property week last week confirming they will open but didn't confirm a date; they know it will do very well based on their enormous concession sales in department stores. As it is a pure destination they could open on Killarney Street and people would travel, it will I suspect act as the catalyst to transform, the non-pedestrianised section of Grafton Street.
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