Smithfield, Dublin

Tesco

Postby Smithfield Resi » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:54 pm

If you don't like Fresh's prices - potentially good news, however if you like "The Complex" a disaster.

Tesco Express put in an application for the Complex units...4176/10

(no idea how to link with 1. The new archiseek baord software or 2. With the mess that is DCC tinkering with the planning search)
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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby soulsearcher » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:45 pm

i dont often like fresh's prices but i would always choose an irish supermarket over a british one, especially one as horrible as tesco. very sad news if it happens, particularly given that (if im not mistaken) those are the corner units and some of the best positioned on the square.
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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby urbanisto » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:05 am

Im quite surprised at how aggressively Tesco are expanding given the current retail market. Thomas Street, Fairview, Fleet Street and now Smithfield. And all in competition with Centras or Spars and the like. I suppose it is welcome to see someone take the unit and its was always to be expected that a retailer like Tesco would turn up on Smithfield Sq - surely the whole point of all those retail units. Its strange about The Complex. I thought it would develop into something more permanent but it appears to be one of those informal cultural/arts hubs that are springing up about the city but without any sense of longevity or long term purpose. Still there is LOTS of space among the units of Smithfield Market, so they can surely change to a less high profile spot.

Still given all the problems with retail in the city centre its a big leap of faith by Tesco.
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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby urbanisto » Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:05 pm

Hmmm its funny rereading my comment above in light of the Urban Party event...

Anyhow...another cultural anchor of Smithfield appears to be in trouble. The Lighthouse Cinema looks set to close by all account. Their rent has been raised by 100% to €200,000. Smithfield Market (what a misnomer) owner is seeking to have the cinema company wound up.
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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby thebig C » Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:02 pm

StephenC wrote:Im quite surprised at how aggressively Tesco are expanding given the current retail market. Thomas Street, Fairview, Fleet Street and now Smithfield. And all in competition with Centras or Spars and the like. I suppose it is welcome to see someone take the unit and its was always to be expected that a retailer like Tesco would turn up on Smithfield Sq - surely the whole point of all those retail units. Its strange about The Complex. I thought it would develop into something more permanent but it appears to be one of those informal cultural/arts hubs that are springing up about the city but without any sense of longevity or long term purpose. Still there is LOTS of space among the units of Smithfield Market, so they can surely change to a less high profile spot.

Still given all the problems with retail in the city centre its a big leap of faith by Tesco.


Whatever peoples views about Tesco , its good that at least somebody is filling up at least some of the ample empty space. Most of the units opening onto the Square are empty and if you take a walk around the corner all of the units in the complex that open onto side streets are completely vacant.

I have to say, I don't really share your surprise regarding the failure of Smithfield as a regeneration effort. That area of town has basically been derelict since the 60s/70s when alot of the industries there either relocated or closed. Furthermore, it was never that salubrious to start off with. Perhaps the docks, especially on the Southside had a degree of success because of their proximity to the core D2 Business District and also to upmarket areas like D4.

For 4 years I traveled through Smithfield by Luas each day. Despite the Luas line and its effect on land values, and, the biggest property boom we are ever likely to see, very little redevelopment actually occured between Capel Street and Heuston. That which did either took ages to build or wasn't completed before the crash. Furthermore, due to the urban landscape of the area, I have heard site aquisition could be fairly difficult, resulting in several large sites being left as wastelands because individuals owning tiny slivers of land refused to sell or lodged objections. This is particularly noticable at the huge empty fenced off chasm between the Four Courts and Phoenix House.

Also, and this will sound awful, whislt the Jameson Distillery development and Smithfield Market are finished off very well, they were always basically islands of affluence surrounded by ghettos. I know thats harsh, and many of the original inhabitants of the area are really decent upstanding people but there are also alot of "scumbags", for want of a better term. Just look at all the behavior outside the childrens court...not to mention the horse fair!! That is not going to attract anybody.

Furthermore, judging by that fact that its mostly foreigners who alight at Smithfield, I would say most of the apartment owners are investors who literally don't care about the area because they don't live there!

C
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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby gunter » Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:10 pm

I think there are many issues with Smithfield, several of which we've chewed over before, but I think the core issue is that it doesn't have a function.

Smithfield was conceived and built as a market square, if you take that function away, it's hardly surprising that what's left is just a vast emptyness.

Apparently Smithfield originally hosted a live cattle market on Mondays and Thursdays in addition to the horse fair which originally was held weekly on Thursday afternoons. That might be all a bit Dodge City for today, but you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that a market square needs a market.

I wouldn't have a problem even with a flea market just to get things going. Half of gunter's wardrobe was acquired in various flea markets, as well as the actual wardrobe, now that I think of it.
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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby Paul Clerkin » Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:45 pm

That's the truth of it really - you can have the nicest spaces in the world but if there's nothing happening, they're just windswept barren areas. And in an Irish climate, no end of architectural intervention is going to make that space better used for 8 months of the year. Smithfield and Newmarket need to be turned back into markets - not just farmer's markets but all sorts of goods, and not once a week - 4/5 days a week. They'd become a draw in themselves eventually.
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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby urbanisto » Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:55 pm

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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby kefu » Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:04 pm

More bad news for Smithfield:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre ... ing33.html
An absolute disaster for this part of Dublin. The Department should step in with grant assistance for the cinema. Better to spend another €175,000 now than let the €1.75 million grants involved go to waste.
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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby Alek Smart » Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:29 pm

Perhaps with Fingal Co Co dispensing with the Fry Model Railway,some enterprising fellow,perhaps a foreigner,could see some benefit to relocating it to one of the many empty spaces which border the "Plaza".?

"Also,and this will sound awful, whislt the Jameson Distillery development and Smithfield Market are finished off very well, they were always basically islands of affluence surrounded by ghettos. I know thats harsh, and many of the original inhabitants of the area are really decent upstanding people but there are also alot of "scumbags", for want of a better term. Just look at all the behavior outside the childrens court...not to mention the horse fair!! That is not going to attract anybody."

Thebig C sadly does have a point,which is not Smithfield specific but can be applied to many areas of Irish Life.

For sure the Luas people have a battle on their hands to reclaim their system from the clutches of a substantial number of those who see no value in respecting proiperty or other individuals rights to integrity.

No amount of Architectural innovation or flash design will make any difference in the absence of a functional social framework to support it...currrently Smithfields framework is tenuous at best and prone to sudden collapse with the usual results.

Sad yes,but it's where we currently are and ,it would seem,where we wish to remain.
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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby europhile » Wed May 11, 2011 2:10 pm

Where are the units situated that Tesco is taking? Is it taking over Fresh or opening in a new location?
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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby urbanisto » Wed May 11, 2011 2:18 pm

The Tesco is planned for the site occupied by The Complex on the corner of the small plaza area. The Complex are being turfed out.
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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby europhile » Thu May 12, 2011 11:16 am

Thanks. That's sort of opposite the pub?
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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby Smithfield Resi » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:20 am

Don't get me started on the 'smithfield improvements' (is any end in sight?) but just to finish off the wind tunnel effect we now have this rather johnny come lately application from Linders. All the way through the boom without breaking ground on various now expired schemes and bkd come up with this tired nonsense for them. Vintage 2006 Office Block muck. 5.18 plot ratio and 86% site coverage on an existing site with mature trees. Just what we need in Smithfield - more empty office space. Is anyone right in the head?

http://www.dublincity.ie/AnitePublicDocs/00342318.pdf

2660/11 - observations by Monday 13th.
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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby kefu » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:44 pm

Frank McDonald made an interesting observation about the braziers in a recent article.
He said that aside from enormous costs, they can cause heat/singe damage to some of the higher apartments, which were built after the braziers had been put in place.
Don't know whether that is true but he raised the point that if they are never going to be used, they should simply be taken down as they have no function.
What would people think?
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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby Smithfield Resi » Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:58 pm

they can cause heat/singe damage to some of the higher apartments


I have been on the roof closest to a brazier when the braziers were lit, they are a good 5 or 6 metres distance away. I'd be very suprised if heat damage was possible.

I think the braziers should stay, but perhaps have high power low energy LEDs installed to make beams of light shine from them. These could be easily colour keyed for various events.

Above all however Smithfield (Market) needs a feckin MARKET! Not a half ass planting (greening) scheme or a 'strategy'. Just get a regular market in with stalls, get some toilets into the stupid block in the middle, repurpose the old ESB station back to a market official/policing office, bung a safe in it for change (and a kettle) and run the Temple Bar Market there on weekdays. Put a specialist vintage/camden lock type market in at the weekends. Add students/tourists (generator hostel opens soon).

A look along the LUAS line at the number of new veg shops will show how the area is crying out for a fruit/veg market as well to take advantage of the proximity of the wholesale market.
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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby gunter » Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:55 pm

Smithfield Resi wrote:
I think the braziers should stay, but perhaps have high power low energy LEDs installed to make beams of light shine from them.


like this?

Image

On the matter of The Complex;

There was a piece in one of the papers today about the Tesco store planned for 'The Complex', something about not having an off-licence. I couldn't catch it all, the guy turned the page.

A couple of weeks ago, an acquaintance attended a play in The Complex, it was some harrowing family thing that went on for two and a half hours. Not the kind of thing if you’re looking for cheering up. Apparently it was very well performed and grimly realistic, but there were only six people in the audience, and two of them left at the interval.

. . . . and yes we need a market of some kind in Smithfield, urgently.
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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby Smithfield Resi » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:40 am

:lolno: I was thinking more this..but you get the point.
Image
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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby Cathal Dunne » Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:47 pm

A functioning, regular market would help enliven Smithfield and give the regeneration a new impetus. With the Grangegorman redevelopment trundling along there's a fresh opportunity to make this area better. A flea market would be the ideal starting point as it is an easy means of bringing lots of people to the area on a semi-regular basis. Hopefully this footfall will trigger the development of small shops, cafés, restaurants etc. necessary for filling all the empty units, providing employment and an atmosphere to the area.

The horse fair has rightfully been criticised by animal welfare organisations for the questionable standards of care received by the horses. However if the market was regulated and supervised it could be beneficial from a tourism perspective as people come to watch a 400 year-old market in action.
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Re: Tesco

Postby Smithfield Resi » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:28 pm

Smithfield Resi wrote:If you don't like Fresh's prices - potentially good news, however if you like "The Complex" a disaster.

Tesco Express put in an application for the Complex units...4176/10

(no idea how to link with 1. The new archiseek baord software or 2. With the mess that is DCC tinkering with the planning search)


http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=4176/10

Great. No market. No Art. No Cultural Use. No nothing. Instead we are getting a Tesco Express. :sick:

At least no off licence - interesting as apparantly according to the courts http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0212/1224289634620.html they are not fit to hold one :wtf:
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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby exene1 » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:48 pm

Smithfield Resi wrote:Don't get me started on the 'smithfield improvements' (is any end in sight?) but just to finish off the wind tunnel effect we now have this rather johnny come lately application from Linders. All the way through the boom without breaking ground on various now expired schemes and bkd come up with this tired nonsense for them. Vintage 2006 Office Block muck. 5.18 plot ratio and 86% site coverage on an existing site with mature trees. Just what we need in Smithfield - more empty office space. Is anyone right in the head?

http://www.dublincity.ie/AnitePublicDocs/00342318.pdf

2660/11 - observations by Monday 13th.
Image

This tiger flashback fantasy folly was refused. Already glut of vacant office accommodation in the area in deepest recession ever ... really wonder what this application was all about >_<




Image

It required demolition of the Irish Distillers building, a respected 1970s office conversion of a non-protected late-19th century stone warehouse which is also crucial to the conservation area streetscape of Bow Street behind. David Slattery threw every insult he could muster at it but to no avail.

The Distillers site should really be left as is and interests in the area should develop their permissions for the gap sites on the opposite side of Smithfield beside Luas, which really need developing.
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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby gunter » Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:40 pm

That Corpo scan of the proposed office block on the Distillers' site perfectly captures the leaden qualities of the proposal.
We really are in the architectural doldrums at the moment.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

A Public Event Licence application was recently lodged for a 'German Market' and a seasonal public ice rink, all under the marketing umbrella of a 'Winterwonderlands', intended to be located on the grounds at the Royal Hospital in Kilmainham. Is there some reason, that I'm simply not understanding, why this kind of thing isn't going into the vast emptiness of Smithfield? . . . . as it surely would if Smithfield was in any other European city.
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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby Smithfield Resi » Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:20 pm

Today I spotted 3 winos/junkies asleep on the new benches, plus a new gaggle of skateboarders enjoying the grind boxes thoughfully provided by DCC. I strolled home past the large cage of builders rubble, admiring the new 'sandbox' at the top of the square. God bless you DCC, God bless you.
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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby exene1 » Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:20 pm

Hot hot hot! . Seems like so long ago, haha

Image
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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby wearnicehats » Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:17 pm

gunter wrote:That Corpo scan of the proposed office block on the Distillers' site perfectly captures the leaden qualities of the proposal.
We really are in the architectural doldrums at the moment.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

A Public Event Licence application was recently lodged for a 'German Market' and a seasonal public ice rink, all under the marketing umbrella of a 'Winterwonderlands', intended to be located on the grounds at the Royal Hospital in Kilmainham. Is there some reason, that I'm simply not understanding, why this kind of thing isn't going into the vast emptiness of Smithfield? .


the horses would slip. although, they'd be bratwurst in no time then so

I was looking at the IFSC event guide and note that the german xmas market isn't there (yet). I hope this isn't its new home because it will die a million deaths in the RHK
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