Henrietta Street

Re: Henrietta Street

Postby hutton » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:09 pm

hutton wrote:Despite all of this, the nuns did an excellent restoration of numbers 8 - 10 ten years ago, the King's Inns have recently restored number 11, while numbers 5 and 6 have also had some works done in restoring the facades - as far as I am aware no grants money was made available by the state for these works.
For point of clarity I want to correct myself here - the nuns did receive a substantial state grant when they restored their houses - I meant the other houses :)
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Re: Henrietta Street

Postby gunter » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:38 pm

That's a brutal photograph hutton!

That's Daily Star hatchet-job-on-Kate-Moss quality. I know have a shot of it somewhere, before all that pale green glass got bolted on, and it wasn't that bad.
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Re: Henrietta Street

Postby rumpelstiltskin » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:27 am

johnglas wrote:You've gone on to a completely different argument; why should 'distaste' (oddly anally-retentive word) lead to 'insecurity'? OK. it's run-down, but it's interesting compared to the manicured banality of suburbia. The principal reason for strolling up to Henrietta St is Henrietta St!
:rolleyes:


There's nothing as anally retentive as using the phrase "anally retentive". I think that when streets are dirty and unkempt, even if there's little danger of being mugged, people feel insecure. I'm sure there's some deep-seated psychological reason for it. And plead ignorance if you want, but I know most of you know what I mean. In any case, people are unlikely to randomly wander to Henrietta Street in the same way they would to Fitzwilliam Square.
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Re: Henrietta Street

Postby johnglas » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:19 am

I'm sure there's some deep-seated psychological reason for it


It's called being anally-retentive, I'm afraid, or 'bourgeois angst'. Fitzwilliam Square is very attractive and well-maintained, but as a point of interest, it is no more so than Henrietta St.
Of course, we all want areas that are well maintained (and I am as nit-picking as anyone else in that respect), but to induce a climate of fear as a discouragement to actually going anywhere in a city strikes me as counter-productive and unfair. To repeat, as a tourist I have never had any hesitation in visiting both these areas and it is wrong to discourage anyone from doing so.
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Re: Henrietta Street

Postby rumpelstiltskin » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:44 pm

johnglas wrote:It's called being anally-retentive, I'm afraid, or 'bourgeois angst'. Fitzwilliam Square is very attractive and well-maintained, but as a point of interest, it is no more so than Henrietta St.
Of course, we all want areas that are well maintained (and I am as nit-picking as anyone else in that respect), but to induce a climate of fear as a discouragement to actually going anywhere in a city strikes me as counter-productive and unfair. To repeat, as a tourist I have never had any hesitation in visiting both these areas and it is wrong to discourage anyone from doing so.


Let's hope that the new open air Georgian museum can pay for itself entirely from the entrance fees of intrepid architecture buffs, though I doubt it somehow. It would be as forlorn as the Irish Museum of Modern Art, and the museum at Collins Barracks.
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Re: Henrietta Street

Postby hutton » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:47 pm

gunter wrote:That's a brutal photograph...it wasn't that bad.


:rolleyes:

Oh yeah? Post up your snap so :)

Meanwhile I'll happily quote you back one of your earliest posts, from the Dutch Billys thread.

I will be the first to acknowledge that you have made excellent contributions regarding Dutch Billys, and have added greatly to the collective knowledge of such stock - but I regret to say that in doing so your agenda is verging dangerously on the reactionary, in that you are doing so by down-playing the post-Billy Luke Gardiner initiated developments, of which Henrietta Street is obviously the first example.

In that regard, I would put it to you gunter, whether you are now blinding yourself by your own well-informed but nonetheless dogma driven stylist reactionary agenda?

Time for a little bit of political re-education perhaps? ;)

gunter wrote:So completely have the gabled streets of Dublin been lost, or masked, that the tendency has been to regard the dimly remembered curvilinear gabled houses as some kind of neanderthal off-shoot in the evolutionary process that shortly afterwards delivered the presumed perfection of 'Georgian' Dublin. Part of this may have been down to the agressive marketing of Luke Gardiner and his circle, who, in a very short space of time, managed to persuade upwardly mobile Dubliners that, not only were they living in the wrong part of town, but they were also living in the wrong design of house.

Whatever about the origins of the style, what developed here was a full blown architectural movement with a complex language and a real urban vitality that none of Luke Gardiner's sober 'Georgian' street would ever equal, in my opinion. To compare a complex 'Dutch Billy' corner with the half hearted efforts of the Georgians is to compare a piece of sculpture with a photocopy.

The loss that Dublin suffered in going over to the Luke Gardiner led English Palladian model, and turning it's back on it's indigenous urban tradition, is not just about the near irradication of the whole record of an architectural style, it's also about the substitution of a slightly superficial, segregated and imported model, for a truely urban, mixed use and socially integrated model.

I don't want to keep dumping on Luke Gardiner, given that he has attained such iconic status as the developer that all other developers are supposed to look up to, but his legacy is decidedly mixed at best... I'm just suggesting that, in that analogy, that man is Luke Gardiner, and he is an ugly man, and he smells.


And

gunter wrote:Henrietta Street (the Luke Gardiner venture) is an exclusive up-market cul-de-sac of London type houses off an arterial route, with no attempt to integrate into the existing street or development pattern.

If it could be established, for example, that this Manor Street house was originally flat parapeted, and if it could be dated to before 1728, then I'd have lay off on Gardiner on that front anyway, and just concentrate on giving him a good kicking on the 'shifting the city off it's access' point, and the 'one house design fits all' point.


"Luke Gardiner is an ugly man, and he smells"

Poor Luke! :D
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Re: Henrietta Street

Postby gunter » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:17 pm

You left out my bit about the squirrels!

That last bit should have read: he knocked the city off it's axis . . .not access . . obviously.

Are you saying he didn't smell?
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Re: Henrietta Street

Postby Devin » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:36 pm

gunter wrote:What is so terribly wrong about that building?


gunter, I'm surprised. We all had a good spout against this building at the tme. The bones of it was that it was (ab)using its poistion at the corner of Bolton Street and and Henrietta Street by using the scale of the latter's houses when it should have been using the streetscape scale of the former.
....'subservience' .... 'supporting role' .... I have heard you articulate these concepts at least once on the forum before (Paternoster Square?)
(And please don't go into a big defence against the building because it would be too difficult to take :-) )
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Re: Henrietta Street

Postby hutton » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:42 pm

gunter wrote:Are you saying he didn't smell?


That's not the question. Your justification of this is:

gunter wrote:What is so terribly wrong about that building?

OK, it's a big square block, but most of the lauded Henrietta Street houses are big square blocks!

I think it was one of the better in-fill apartment schemes from the 'Tiger' years... this was a class scheme, no?


Image[/QUOTE]

Come along now gunter, stop the bluster and answer the question!

I am enjoying this :)
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Re: Henrietta Street

Postby gunter » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:59 pm

Devin, I'm not going to go into battle for that scheme, I don't like 'blocks' pure and simple, I think the 'block' is the wrong unit to use in the repair of streetscapes, but, as blocks go, I don't think this one is as bad as has been made out.

I've forgotten who the architects were, but you can certainly see a certain amount of architectural intention in it. For a start, they picked up the deBlacam + Meagher brick/pointing detail from the 'Wooden Building', which was well worth giving another whirl to, and they resisted the temptation to over-elaborate the corner and that should have earned them some brownie points at least.

There should have been some stepping of the side elevation to reflect the sloping streetscape of Henrietta St. and (as I keep saying) the proportions all worked better before the etched glazing went on, but I think to gratuitously dump on it every time Henrietta Street is mentioned, is a bit unfair.

Personally I can think of a couple of dozen worse spec apartment blocks in the inner city.

Oh Christ! . . . now hutton's back, are you two hunting in packs
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Re: Henrietta Street

Postby Devin » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:34 pm

Architect was a bloke called Buckley, who I understand used to work for dB&M.
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Re: Henrietta Street

Postby gunter » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:08 pm

Mr. Buckley should get out the lead and post a better picture and not let his creation take the hammering hutton's picture gives it:) . . . It could take me a week to find mine, and that's assuming that I actually took the pictures and didn't just fully intend to take the pictures!

One of the reasons I'd be a bit tolerant of the Henrietta Street block is that it doesn't do this:

Image
a recent spec. apartment block around the corner on Mountjoy Street.

These guys came up with 17 good ideas, but unfortunately they were let use all of them, with the result that the scheme bursts out in all directions, literally and architecturally;)
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Re: Henrietta Street

Postby garrain » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:45 pm

hi all.fascinated with henrietta street.can someone please explain the underwoods connection with the street.ive heard before that they own multiple properties throughout dublin.if so ,which.?also no.7,which is currently for sale,but who is the seller.any help would be grateful.thanks
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Re: Henrietta Street

Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:53 am

LUKE GARDINER was the key player in the development of Georgian Dublin with Henrietta Street his first venture in the 1720s before moving on to what is now O’Connell Street and Mountjoy Square among others.

Now the houses he built at 15-16 Henrietta Street are set to be rejuvenated, three years after Dublin City Council ran an open design competition for the vacant site at 16 Henrietta Street, which was demolished some time around 1950 after being left derelict for about 25 years.

The 2008 competition attracted a total of 79 entries, and the winning design was by Ryan W Kennihan Architects. Dublin City Council, which owns the properties after acquiring them under the Derelict Sites Act, is now planning to construct a new four-storey over garden level extension to the building as well as a new theatre in the rear gardens of the houses.
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