Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Tayto » Tue May 04, 2010 2:37 pm

gunter wrote:Billy died as a result of a fall from his horse

. . . .


Really? Then as a gesture to the King Willie brigade, I propose re-instating the horse.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby PVC King » Tue May 04, 2010 4:15 pm

Tayto wrote:Really? Then as a gesture to the King Willie brigade, I propose re-instating the horse.



Why not a memorial of Shergar it could double up as a memorial to the human disapeared?
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Global Citizen » Tue May 04, 2010 4:57 pm

PVC King wrote:Why not a memorial of Shergar it could double up as a memorial to the human disapeared?


How about Marengo ?
Napolean's horse. Born and bred in Ireland and purchased
at the Ballinasloe Horse Fair. A belated nod of appreciation
to our French cousins for their efforts in trying to dismount
King Billy themselves 320 years ago.;)
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby gunter » Tue May 04, 2010 6:30 pm

You want to up-grade College Green with a nonument to the unknown traveller?

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. . . well I suppose it would be reaching out to a minority :rolleyes:
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Global Citizen » Tue May 04, 2010 7:10 pm

Venturing into the realms of horseshit altogether now.
How bout this fella ? (The one on the left).
Apologies. :o

Lets get back to discussing tunnels under College Green and cobblestones etc..:)
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Tayto » Tue May 04, 2010 7:55 pm

Not finished yet...recent proposal received by Dublin City Council........

http://www.pbase.com/geej/image/84507997
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby publicrealm » Fri May 07, 2010 11:05 pm

This is derivitive tat - typical forelock touching by the grateful tenantry.

We need to move beyond this pathetic servility - Ireland has now taken her place among the Nations -it's time to leave Billy (and Gough and his colonial cronies) in the graveyard where they belong.

College Green is too important for this sort of rubbish. We need something that speaks of the values of our modern republic, while connecting it to key elements of our Irish (not Anglo-Irish) culture.

Money for public art is tight at the moment, and we will always have naysayers, but we could start with the attached artwork - facing the Bank of Ireland (albeit it may have some Anglo Irish connotations).

In time it could be made more permanent (or at least gilded).
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby missarchi » Fri May 07, 2010 11:51 pm

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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby jimg » Sat May 08, 2010 2:50 pm

The fact that the statue has been melted down renders the Billy discussion pointless as far as I'm concerned. Sad really - I think I would have enjoyed a protracted argument with onq and publicrealm on this one as I find their arguments to be unconvincing. Onq's claim that it is the equestrian nature of the statue which renders it particularly offensive rings hollow; I suspect onq would still have a problem with a statue of Billy in a standing pose in College Green. Publicrealm's blind spot is less subtle - the immediate response being an ad-hominem attack branding those with opposing views as suffering from "pathetic servility". Nothing could be further from the truth in my case - there are many times in my life where a little servility would have served me well but I've always reacted badly to individual authority or the authority of majority opinion. Besides that, I'd fancy my chances against most in a dick-waving contest on family (old) republican credentials. Anyway, that's it for me on this one; back to pedestrianising College Green.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Pete » Sat May 08, 2010 3:39 pm

Sorry jimg, I dont think we can getback to pedestrianising College Green. There have been 46 posts on the subject of you know what (I dont feel comfortable saying it myself anymore) and they have turned what was an interesting thread into more horse sh*t then you know whos horse produced while he was alive.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Global Citizen » Sun May 09, 2010 3:45 pm

At least if the proposed Luas does pass through a pedestrianised College Green,
we would have the modern day street version of the iron horse passing through every few minutes !
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Yixian » Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:42 am

Any chance the Luas line passing through College Green won't be overhead powered? >_> Would pretty much be one step forward and two steps back in terms of the view of Trinity from Dame St..
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby missarchi » Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:50 am

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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Cathal Dunne » Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:19 pm

Yixian wrote:Any chance the Luas line passing through College Green won't be overhead powered? >_> Would pretty much be one step forward and two steps back in terms of the view of Trinity from Dame St..


Yeah, it would reduce the visual clutter to the place if a third rail was used. People always go on about Bordeaux as an example of high-tech third rail technology but San Francisco's famous trams also use third rail on its low tech carriages. Perhaps we should send the RPA there to see how they do it. That said, the priority should be to get some form of tram line through that area. Luas BXD is critical to realising the full potential of Luas and make it an option for far more people.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby missarchi » Fri May 20, 2011 5:02 am

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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Peter Fitz » Fri May 20, 2011 5:18 pm

Yeah, it would reduce the visual clutter to the place if a third rail was used. People always go on about Bordeaux as an example of high-tech third rail technology but San Francisco's famous trams also use third rail on its low tech carriages. Perhaps we should send the RPA there to see how they do it. That said, the priority should be to get some form of tram line through that area. Luas BXD is critical to realising the full potential of Luas and make it an option for far more people.



Nice is a good example of both the negative impact cable networks can have on a streetscape and what can be done about it where required.

Cable infrastructure terminating as the tram line enters Place Massena.

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What is essentially a wider version of the Luas, passes through Place Massena.

Image


However, I absolutely disagree that Luas should pass through College Green - the whole point of any future pedestrianisation is that College Green would be elevated from the mere conduit it is today to become a key destination within the city, a relaxed pedestrian friendly environment. Despite the scale of Place Massena and the measures taken to minimize the impact of the tram line as it passes through, the space is in my view compromised nonetheless - its central space is not only dead, but dangerous – resulting in pedestrian activity drifting to the fringes. Given the comparatively tight confines of College Green, 40m long trams passing through every 5 minutes with or without their associated cable network will severely detract from the kind of public space we all know College Green can be.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby missarchi » Fri May 20, 2011 10:40 pm

it is the truth however hard it may be to swallow...
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Cathal Dunne » Fri May 20, 2011 11:28 pm

Peter Fitz wrote:

However, I absolutely disagree that Luas should pass through College Green - the whole point of any future pedestrianisation is that College Green would be elevated from the mere conduit it is today to become a key destination within the city, a relaxed pedestrian friendly environment. Despite the scale of Place Massena and the measures taken to minimize the impact of the tram line as it passes through, the space is in my view compromised nonetheless - its central space is not only dead, but dangerous – resulting in pedestrian activity drifting to the fringes. Given the comparatively tight confines of College Green, 40m long trams passing through every 5 minutes with or without their associated cable network will severely detract from the kind of public space we all know College Green can be.


That's not exactly accurate. As you say yourself that tram line runs straight through that public square. That obviously would have an impact on the ability of the square to act as a meeting place and centre of activity. However Luas BXD is not going to go through the centre of College Green, it will only be at its fringes, right up alongside the path around the West Front of Trinity College. There would still be ample space in the rest of College Green (and Foster Square) to create a public space while facilitating a Luas line through it.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby missarchi » Sat May 21, 2011 1:02 am

If college green was a pivot point then no trams would cross it.

Why? because it would be a place to meet and switch modes.

The argument of a single luas line only has more weight if you remove the railings ect.

back to the future...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre ... ing16.html

pivoting without a degree of certainty?

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/bydesign/stori ... 209507.htm
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Peter Fitz » Sat May 21, 2011 12:16 pm

However Luas BXD is not going to go through the centre of College Green, it will only be at its fringes, right up alongside the path around the West Front of Trinity College.


What you refer to as the fringes, I consider to be the core. Trinity's relationship with College Green is not exactly helped by it's railings, add to that a tram line, and the result is to introduce a further barrier of sorts between its fine western facade and the city itself. For me, the way both Trinity & the Bank of Ireland interface with the space is key.

On a side note, given that the council have seen fit to remove their own clutter for Obama, any chance those damn London Planes could be, ahem, temporarily removed too !?
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Cathal Dunne » Sat May 21, 2011 3:14 pm

Peter Fitz wrote:
However Luas BXD is not going to go through the centre of College Green, it will only be at its fringes, right up alongside the path around the West Front of Trinity College.


What you refer to as the fringes, I consider to be the core. Trinity's relationship with College Green is not exactly helped by it's railings, add to that a tram line, and the result is to introduce a further barrier of sorts between its fine western facade and the city itself. For me, the way both Trinity & the Bank of Ireland interface with the space is key.

On a side note, given that the council have seen fit to remove their own clutter for Obama, any chance those damn London Planes could be, ahem, temporarily removed too !?


Fair enough, but there is still ample space in College Green besides the area used for the tram line that could be made into a great public square. I do agree that it would be wonderful to integrate the grassy area surrounding the West Gate of Trinity College but it will probably have to be limited by the necessity of putting the Luas line through there. We could redirect the Luas line around Trinity via Nassau St, Westland Row, Pearse and D'Olier St.. This would have the advantage of linking with Pearse Station. However the problem in Ireland is that people talk endlessly about alternatives and plans and take a long time to actually do something. Re-directing the Luas line for a pedestrianisation project would be yet another delay in a litany of delays to essential pieces of infrastructure. Luas BXD has its faults but it''s the best bet we have to connect the two Luas lines, start a third line (D) and maximise the potential of our light rail system.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby missarchi » Sun May 22, 2011 10:35 am

1.1. As outlined above, DCC and the RPA have adopted an agreed position in relation to the 107 of the draft conditions suggested by Dublin City Council in its submission dated 17th August 2010. Dublin City Council has thoroughly examined the EIS and attached documents. Dublin City Council is not recommending the attachment of any conditions to any Order issued by the Board pursuant to this process. Dublin City Council expects the RPA to honour and meet its commitments in the Agreed Position document of 18th May 2011.

where is this agreement?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire ... 66761.html
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby GrahamH » Mon May 23, 2011 1:06 am

The apparent reality is that this project was conceived at a time when there was no vision for College Green and its future role in the city. The RPA stepped into this vacuum before anybody else in authority made up their mind or realised what was happening, hence the present mess.

Whatever of the wirescape and the intrusion into the public realm of College Green - both of which I agree are central issues, having harped on about them for years here - the hostile impact of Luas on the leisure atmosphere of College Green has not been adequately assessed, and most certainly is not addressed in the EIS.

Just imagine at peak times, trams will be passing through at five minute intervals - indeed probably three minutes at times - BOTH ways. Essentially there will be a tram passing here every 120 seconds or so. Let us be clear about Luas and its impact on the city core. Luas is not a charming Hornby tram happily winding is way through narrow continental streets - it is a high capacity, and often high speed, railway that operates virtually on a segregated embankment basis. This has the potential to be incredbly damaging to the appeal of College Green as a premier civic space.

As James Nix has recently highlighted, studies have already been carried out in European cities about the deadening impact of light rail on urban life when deployed in certain ways. So this is not exclusively an Irish phenomenon, yet we refuse to talk about it or acknowledge the kiss of death that Luas has given to every inner urban street it touches. If we are to save College Green and the many primary associated streets that BXD passes through, we have to acknowledge what has happened to date in Dublin with Luas, and propose meaningful solutions for the future deployment of the network.

In the meantime, College Green is getting the Obama treatment.

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The stage overlaps the railings of the Bank of Ireland, as per Clinton's visit.

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Dignitary seating.

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A giant construction site in the centre. All signage and the silly repro lamp standard have been removed from the median. Oh, and the taxis - which we now know can only be removed by US Presidential decree.

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Broadcast and photography scaffold on the other side.

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Foster Place appears to be the communications hub.

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Dame Street is entirely closed down to South Great George's Street. Great to wander carefree down the centre of the road.

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Giant daylight lamps have been erected on cranes to better illuminate the event, which is expected to take place around 5-6pm. In this respect I do hope the stage will be presentable as an architectural construct, rather than a typical utilitarian performance stage that depends on lighting for effect. Its fabulous surroundings are fully presentable in daylight hours - so too should the stage.

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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby GrahamH » Mon May 23, 2011 1:15 am

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The proceedings being stoically supervised.

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Really and truly though, the trees are beyond embarrassing at this stage. If ever there was a case of a city authority shooting itself in the foot by not taking action, this is it. Spectacular wide shots of College Green as the centrepeice of a sophisticated European capital for an international audience are unattainable thanks to the short-sightedness regarding this preposterous planting. The tourism benefit to Dublin from this event is almost certainly substantially negated by this ridiculous state of affairs.

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It's beyond embarrassing.

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The perspex screens being carefully erected this afternoon.

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The blind opes of the back wall of the colonnade are being attractively illuminated.

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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby GrahamH » Mon May 23, 2011 1:33 am

It appears President Obama will arrive via the quays and Westmoreland Street, his car pulling in underneath a full canopy erected beneath the House of Lords portico.

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What a stunning processional scene he will be presented with upon entering, passing through Gandon's magical stone entrance hall, up the steps into the theatrical top-lit rotunda beyond, and through the muscular Pearcian corridors to the Cash Office, Lords chamber and private rooms.A fabulous first impression of Dublin city centre.

Part of Trinity's lawn appears to have been comandeered for a media tent.

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While the other side is hosting more broadcast vantage points it seems.

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Lower Grafton Street is like a ghost town, but does also look the tidest it's been in half a century too.

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In contrast to the shameful attitude of commercial and civic interests to the UK state visit, where only Brown Thomas saw fit to fly a Union Jack and where the quays were lined with commercial flags, now the city streets are filling up with stars and stripes and the quays are flying high with tricolours. In spite of the financial and arguably cultural meltdown of the past decade, we can see where allegiances still lie...

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