henno wrote:onq wrote:Restriction of the provision of architectural services to Architects and their tied agents.
Persons in other professions employing architectural graduates and architectural technicians to provide architectural services
Thsi is a total bastardisation of the profession.
Something's got to give.
well well well, are we now seeing circling of the wagons that the BCA has always threatened??
im not going to turn this into a yet another techie v arch discussion, but the above post (while selectively quoted, retains ethos) is EXACTLY the kind of thinking that draws a huge wedge in the architectural profession. Like it or not, technicians are architectural professionals, and as such deserve as much chance to provide "architectural services" as architects. If persons in 'other professions' (assuming QS, Engs etc here) are engaging architectural graduates and technicians to provide "architectural services" then shouldnt they be allowed to provide the service they had been qualified to do????
The services they have been qualified to do is to provide technician information to architects after three years of a technically focussed course - there is very little design content in their course.
This doesn't make them competent to design buildings, just to detail the designs of others - this is the chip on their shoulders they all seem to have.
The only ones who seem to get beyond thsi are the ones who go on to become architects.
Like it or not, at the formal education level ARCHITECTURE as a profession and an art form is being split into a "design orientated" syllabus and a "technology" orientated syllabus.... two sides of the one profession. Older established architects may not understand, accept or agree with this as they have trained and practised in both aspects...
I qualified in 1990 and I understand this very well.
Technicians are trained to think about components and building physics [tom some degree] not about developing a design to both planning stage and on-site to the completion stage.
Another year of professional practice studies or M&E 101 makes them better at answering technical questions, it doesn't make them architects or even architects-lite
On the actual topic..... (putting on my devils advocate mask!!)...
1. restriction DOES exist in that the practise of nixers is ILLEGAL
Nonsense in relation to restriction - services are not restricted.
Technicians who are operating as architects are already beginning to feel the heat as untrained persons and draughtsmen on the dole and working from home are taking the business from them too.
Nixers are not illegal as long as you declare them for tax purposes and they do not breach your contract of employment.
However under the Health and Safety regulations the Designer carries special responsibility and like everyone must be competent to carry out his/her task.
Technicians are not trained as designers - ergo.
2. restriction on one profession is narrow sighted....
One definition of a profession is a group composed of highly trained people providing competent specialised services to the public and the state.
Its neither narrow minded or short sighted to restrict access to competent persons or to assess those persons - it is good practice.
if restriction existing in the architectural profession, will it also exist in the mechanic profession??
The Mechanic is a tradesman, but yes, that trade in particular should be restricted.
I don't want an idiot fettling a ton of metal that could kill someone if the brakes failed.
Building trades are effectively restricted by the Safety Health and Welfare at Work legislation requiring all persons to be competent to carry out their assigned tasks.
Cabinet Making is a craft I think, but restricting it is fine by me, not that many would be competent enough to do attempt cabinet making - the hierarchy in woodworking in terms of growing skill level runs Carpenter, Joiner, Cabinet Maker.
carpet laying ???
Neither a trade nor a profession.
etc etc ad nauseum........ what is so special about the architectural profession that it deserves special legislation to restrict????
If someone is at that stage in their life where buildings are merely used to support bodily function the importance of the built environment may be lost, but for the rest of us it is vitally important.
Even for people with little cerebral appreciation of buildings, they are aware of the support they bring to human activity.
We spend half our lives awake in homes or workplaces with another quarter in activities in recreational pursuits that are normally supported by buildings in some way, while the last quarter is spent sleeping - again usually in some sort of building.
Better built environments and buildings offer significantly increased life expectancy and quality of life - this is a given.
They do this all the time, 24/7/365 - I shouldn't ahve to explain this - you should know.
if a dodgy mechanic fecks up servicing a car, a person could pay with his/her life.... would that profession deserve to be regulated ahead of a profession that doesnt kill people (only careers)....
I have already confirmed that the trade of mechanic should be regulated.
In case you weren't aware [ where have you been for the last thirty years] badly designed buildings *do* kill people.
The quality of design here in Ireland tends to mitigate against such disasters but laypersons shouldn't go around assuming they know much about buildings any more than they should assume they are competent to carry out operations or prescribe medicine [Pharmacists take note].
The Hyatt Hotel Walkway collapse is probably the most famous collapse in America not attributed to a terrorist attack
http://mecholsky.mse.ufl.edu/EMA4913-14 ... rticle.pdf
In developed countries, where the technical expertise and knowledge is available, unscrupulous developers can put people's lives at risk:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampoong_D ... e_collapse
Buildings in many third world countries still do not meet international building code standards.
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/113 ... -toll.html
Deaths in Mombasa as building collapses http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNeHmxiygFc
http://www.stardustsupport.com/cms/inde ... &Itemid=37
At least do some cursory reading up on the subject before commenting.
oh and ONQ, what exactly is an Architects "tied agent"?
They provide services to them, not to the public.