Grafton Street, Dublin

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby StephenC » Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:17 pm

Meanwhile there is a good degree of development for properties on the street in planning at the moment. I came across this one which has passed its public submissions deadline...

3373/10

I think the An Taisce submission is very well made. The large box penthouse with grill is likely to be quite unsightly. I havent looked at the floor plans but perhaps a circular penthouse might work and could even create a more attractive roof area.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby StephenC » Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:34 pm

Further along the street, another development seeking to maximise the shop area at a prominent corner location. The building is a mid 20th century brick building. The proposal include removing a lot of accumulated signage and clutter which is welcome.

2707/10

Its currently at CFI stage with no objectors.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby StephenC » Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:42 pm

A few others as well....mainly for new shopfronts.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby PVC King » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:56 pm

I agree the application has both positives and negatives which the submission by Kevin Duff recognises in a very balanced manner. On the positive by adding more retail floorspace through the elimination of the Creation Arcade and replacement with better configured space. However the additional storey on top of the Burton Building is simply unacceptable and lets be honest won't add any real value given slightly off prime office rents. To see what this would look like just stand on O'Connell Bridge looking South.

I was shocked to see that Korkeys have placed a full height advertising shroud on the front facade of their Grafton Street Shop. It was embarrasing seeing tourists have their photos taken with a cheap plastic banner as a backdrop. For the avoidance of doubt Korkeys were offered very substantial sums to assign their lease by UK retailers trying to get onto the street 4-5 years ago; so his complaints are simply just his way of saying I should have taken the money; we all make investment decisions for good or bad but a retailer cannot be allowed to spoil the special character of the main shopping Street in the Country on a vendetta.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby StephenC » Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:55 pm

I spotted another development at the top end of the street at the weekend. This time its No.s 57 and 58, currently occupied by Richard Allan and Sisley. The Richard Allam store extends out onto South King Street and the plans allow for the amalgamation of the two units and a standardising of the floor space.

http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=3810/10&backURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=1410834%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E%20%3E%20%3Ca%20href='wphappsearchres.displayResultsURL?ResultID=1763858%26StartIndex=1%26SortOrder=APNID:asc%26DispResultsAs=WPHAPPSEARCHRES%26BackURL=%3Ca%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=1410834%3ESearch%20Criteria%3C/a%3E'%3ESearch%20Results%3C/a%3E

Sorry for the length of the URL (blame the WYSIWYG)

One small point from me is the proposed treatment to the facades of Nos. 57 and 58 which are currently painted brick. The plans provide for a rendering of the frontage which seems to me a shame. When viewed from halfway along the street this whole stretch of frontage looks rather bland given that both Dunnes Stores and the soon to arrive Disney Store are painted. I think stripping back to the brick frontage and cleaning up some of the ornamentation would have had a much more dramatic effect. Curiously, the Conservation Report accompanying the application, says nothing about the treatment of the facades, and the DCC Conservation Architect didn't seem too perturbed either. Permission was granted before Christmas with a condition making amendments to the plans:
2. Development shall not commence until revised plans, drawings and particulars showing the following amendments have been submitted to, and agreed in writing by the Planning Authority, and such works shall be fully implemented prior to the occupation of the buildings:- a) Details of the exact colours, materials and method of illumination of the signage of the proposed shopfronts to No.s 57 and 58 Grafton Street clearly showing compliance with the Dublin City Council Shopfront Design Guide. b) Details of the elevational treatment of No. 57 shall be submitted at a scale of 1.20including details of the materials to be used. The details shall have regard to its historical architectural context adjoining a protected structure and located within an ACA. c) The survey information shall be updated by a Conservation Architect, and the fabric/layout reviewed and re-submitted at stripping out/opening up stage. Where primary fabric is discovered the conservation strategy should be reviewed and re-submitted. d) Details of render, stone cills, copings and window details. e) Ground and first floor plans shall be revised to retain the vertical circulation route/stairway in the Protected Structure along the north party wall. f) Ground and first floor plans shall be revised to provide for a smaller opening between No. 57 & 58 Grafton Street having regard to the position of historic elements and fabric and the need to provide for its protection. Reason: To ensure that the integrity of this protected structure is maintained and that all works are carried out in accordance with best conservation practice.


Its not fully clear but the planner seems to have gone with the proposed rendering. Its a shame because red brick is such a strong feature of Grafton Street and is used to very nice effect elsewhere on the street.

Anyhow, what with a revamping of the public domain and a number of quite substantial developments its is clear that Grafton Street is likely to change significantly in the coming years.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby GrahamH » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:44 pm

Assuming the public domain revamp will go ahead!

While the majority of this planning application is perfectly acceptable, it is quite clear this should have gone to further information. It is completely unacceptable that any building, especially that on the main shopping street of the city in a premier ACA, is proposed to be completely altered to its exterior with no architectural impact assessment or design rationale. Indeed, it appears Grafton Street elevation drawings were not even submitted as part of the application! Certainly they are not online, while details of rendering, reveals, sills, capping out etc are not mentioned by the planner. Has this information been provided?

No information is available about the proposed new windows, about making good the 'inelegant' proportions of the opes as mentioned by the conservation report, nor any detailed description of the new shopfronts. There is far too much important information missing in this application to be 'satisfactorily addressed by way of condition'.

While I have no image to hand, No. 57 is the nastiest little building on Grafton Street - a cheap piece of brick-clad concrete infill in the idiom of its ugly 1980s colleague over on Upper O'Connell Street at the junction with Parnell Street. Not only does prominent site on Grafton Street's most tawdry stretch demand design excellence, it arguably also requires an extra storey. Agreed with Stephen that more emphasis should have been placed on restoring the Protected Structure at No. 58 too, with the Council making efforts to stimulate action with the matching building of its pairing at No. 59. It is the lack of joined up thinking like this that makes you pull your hair out in this city. The stripping of brick on these two buildings would transform the entire southerly introduction to Grafton Street and help redefine this tatty quarter of the city.

Half-baked proposals like this coming through and we're applying for World Design Capital 2014. Good luck lads.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby StephenC » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:34 pm

dear oh dear...grouchy!
and on the sabbath

The obvious candidates for an amalgamated unit are 58 and 59, given that they have common facades. A bit of a missed opportunity.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby GrahamH » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:00 pm

It is indeed, though the minor issue of ownership tends to dictate matters!

It should be noted that recent applications for Grafton Street and O'Connell Street have been rigorously well assessed. It just seems this case doesn't quite aspire to the high aspirations of the ACA.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby pico » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:51 am

Apologies if this has been brought up before, but does anybody else find the giant screen above Stephens Green Shopping Centre visually and audibly offensive. It seem to have got bigger recently, plus yazoo tv , I think, are now advertising to show anybody's video for free on it. Who wants to see a stranger's wonky mobile footage?

To my mind, it a vast unwanted intrusion on a public space ? Surely it would need planning permission, and is not in keeping with a conservation area....
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby kefu » Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:57 pm

There is one on Henry Street as well at the O2 store, even more offensive than the one at the Green.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby wearnicehats » Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:41 pm

pico wrote:Apologies if this has been brought up before, but does anybody else find the giant screen above Stephens Green Shopping Centre visually and audibly offensive. It seem to have got bigger recently, plus yazoo tv , I think, are now advertising to show anybody's video for free on it. Who wants to see a stranger's wonky mobile footage?

To my mind, it a vast unwanted intrusion on a public space ? Surely it would need planning permission, and is not in keeping with a conservation area....


I'm slightly embarrassed to admit that I didn't realise there was one. ditto Henry St.

Maybe it's a reflection of my downtrodden life that I must be constantly staring at my shoes
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby pico » Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:46 pm

wearnicehats wrote:
I'm slightly embarrassed to admit that I didn't realise there was one. ditto Henry St.

Maybe it's a reflection of my downtrodden life that I must be constantly staring at my shoes


wnh, rather than a reflection of your life, I think it shows how we just accept the increasing number of signs, notices, announcements everywhere. The output from the Stephen's Green screen is so unintelligible that few pay it any attention.

However, it continues to blast out it's noise and pollute the environment, and it's only benefit to be a financial gain for the leesor.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby cravings » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:53 am

yeah i first stared at this as i tried to get out of town in the thick of the snow. spent ages waiting at the luas to be eventualy told it was not running, slowly eliminated my buses one by one.. and wondered why something like this wasn't being used to post useful info lots of people needed at that time.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby PVC King » Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:48 pm

pico wrote: and it's only benefit to be a financial gain for the lessor.


Spot on; there is no way that the display in any way contributes to the design of the building; if the building were a cliff of glass then fair enough; but it is a mock heritage facade which was not designed to incorporate a large format digital display. That the centre greedily packs in an arrangement of kiosks that destroy circulation quality and render the opportunities to install such a display effective internally was the designers choice back in the late 1980's. To see where this media is done well look at the use of this media in the Trafford Centre foodcourt as featured in the Apprentice late last year; effective, communicates a message and bombards people with a series of messages whilst they eat; a captive audience in a privately owned internal space.

wondered why something like this wasn't being used to post useful info lots of people needed at that time.


Because public information doesn't contribute income. I don't want to sound like a grumpy git; but the track record of Dublin City Council's enforcement of signage from billboards to politically motivated cranks such as Korkey's with an almost full building advertising shroud and now digital displays is not fit for purpose. I would ask DCC enforcement to view google street view of Oxford Circus in London; how much illegal signage and how many digital displays do you see?

Now if legislation were passed that all income from illegal signage, displays etc were forfeited upon prosecution and fines levied can you really see any landowners engaging in this type of behaviour if they lost the income and had to pay fines and legal costs?

You can do development plans, talk about about strategy, cut airport duty but if a city feels tacky then tourists won't return, retailers won't renew leases and you end up with secondary pitches of vacant and shuttered shops. Time to see some civic pride at council level.........
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby Telchak » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:34 pm

Missed this

From the Herald
PLANS to repave the upmarket shopping mecca of Grafton Street are to be pushed through by the end of this year.

Dublin City Council and the Dublin City Business Association (DCBA) are embarking on an extensive "vision statement" for the Grafton Street quarter.

The last time the street was repaved was over 20 years ago -- when iconic redbrick was laid as part of the Dublin millennium projects with a cost of IR£500,000.

The extensive works are continuing despite a tightened budget in the council.

However, its understood that a number of the projects in the scheme may have to be put on the backburner.

"The vision statement will contain a number of improvement proposals including the repaving of Grafton Street, improved public lighting, street furniture and an improved environment and experience," said a council spokesman.

And this week, Dublin businesses are invited to provide their own thoughts.

"So far approximately 450 views on what people like, don't like or wish to improve have been taken through on-street surveys," the spokesman said.

"In addition the approx 1,500 business owners and residents in the area have been invited to workshops on Thursday and Friday to give their views.

"Departments in Dublin City Council including planning and Development and Roads and Traffic will also give their views. There will be a wider public consultation following publication of the vision statement."

The repaving is expected to be carried out over three to four years to reduce the disturbance along the route.


centenary
DCBA chief executive Tom Coffey said the move could be a significant boost by attracting more tourists to the area.

"There will be pain, but if these kind of projects are completed for the centenary of the 1916 Rising, then we can boost tourism and have a truly modern city," he said.

The repaving of Grafton Street will be included in a complete overhaul of the areas around George's Street and Grafton Street, but the city's most expensive thoroughfare may not be first on the list of streets to be done.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby Morlan » Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:53 am

Any update on the dublin2walk scheme?

Image
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby StephenC » Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:16 pm

DCC are now finalising their plans for the Grafton Street Qtr. According to the council the first projects to be initiated will be a revamp of Fade Street where the Council will try out some of the surfaces and materials they intend using for the wider area. Next up will be Clarendon Street; the rationale here being that the space will be required to allow access to Grafton Street when it finally gets its revamp. Needless to say T21 works are the big stumbler for Grafton Street. First reviews of the plans look positive (although I have seen any myself)

The Council's Public Realm Strategy will be published in the coming weeks. This should give a sampler of whats on offer.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby Morlan » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:05 pm

I hope they stick to red brick on Grafton.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby Punchbowl » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:41 pm

I would prefer that they keep the footpaths and perhaps even the roads when pedestrianising the surrounding area, if only to give an idea of what the streetscape once one.. Would recobbling this area be a bad idea?
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby Cathal Dunne » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:14 pm

The Dublin2Walk scheme should definitely happen. That area is one of the best spots in Dublin and anything which makes the area better is positive. I think it might be a good idea to keep the streets as they are with cobbling replacing the asphalt and tarmac on the roads. It would create, along with Temple Bar, an "old city" feel to that part of Town.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby Morlan » Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:29 pm

Ultimately, get rid of the car parks.

In the mean time, pedestrianise Exchequer/Wicklow/Clarendon Street, and slowly we can flush out the cockroaches (car park owners) to streets outside the Grafton area.


Image
Remove these bollards and give the entire street the granite treatment. Cars wanting to park in the outdated car parks will feel intimidated by the amount of pedestrians and eventually will avoid the area. (Well, we can dream)


Image
Why are there loading bays here? Get rid of them, and get rid of the bollards and other crap.


Image
Wicklow Street - what a waste. This road is here to serve BT's car park. Pedestrianise it and force drivers to mingle slowly with the pedestrians.

DCC need to grow a spine and stick it to these car parks. Move them out of the Grafton area and rezone. Easier said than done, I know, but we have to start somewhere.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby gunter » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:11 pm

The job on the old West's premises seems to be nearing completion, for what it's worth.

Image
a Graham 'before' pic from the 'shopfronts' thread

Image
today with the scaffolding down

Their shield of green mesh was so dense that it was almost impossible to glimpse the works, but if you peered in with a zoom lens you could just about see that they had knocked off all the render and exposed the original red brickwork, which appeared to be in pretty good condition. . . . [I'd wager that Graham has got exactly that; good zoom images of the brickwork]

Image
the Grafton Street front with the original brick finish exposed behind the scaffolding mesh

Image
the Anne Street frontage again with the original brick finish peeping through the protective mesh

Whatever about not making any effort to reinstate the two chimney stacks on the Anne Street facade, which remain the stumps that they've been for years, I don't understand the concept of re-rendering the building after all the old render had been so painstakingly removed.

This was built as a brick building, surely the render lessen its quality as a piece of streetscape, and surely it lessens its interest as one of the few remaining 18th century houses on the street. With its anonymous 'period' windows and painted facades, I think this is a missed opportunity . . . . and that's before we even begin to look at the shopfront.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby StephenC » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:52 pm

I agree gunter. Its incredible how anonymous the building now looks on the street...you'd hardly know its there. I'd wager though that by exposing and repointing the brick the building would have looked brilliant. A real missed opportunity, but not for the want of people telling the owner and city authorities.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby GrahamH » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:12 pm

The finished product is rubbish - a plastic, Disneyland, anywhere piece of ignorantly detailed crud that lowers the tone of Grafton Street as much as any parade of mobile phone shops. And that's before the provincial heritage Monaghan shopfront c. 1994, currently in the making, is unveiled.

Every conceivable effort was made with all stakeholders, including the Department of Environment, to make sure what has happened did not happen to this elegant vernacular Dublin street building. But it did.

One can't point fingers as to who is responsible for this travesty of a planning scenario, which raises considerable legal questions about the validity of the very foundation of Architectural Conservation Area legislation, but as ever in Dublin, the answer is so obvious, one need not even make the effort.

What has happened here, on the capital's 'premier' street, is quite simply outrageous.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby GrahamH » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:27 am

The lost opportunity for Grafton Street of a correctly restored former West jewellers is heart-breaking. The ignorance of even the basic design of the city’s historic building stock, never mind its nuances, amongst property owners, occupiers and the planning authority, reaches nauseating proportions when a flagship building on Grafton Street can be treated in the manner that it has.

Simply put, this hideously ignorant, expressionless lumpen mass...

Image

...could and should be this. A beautiful brick building with all the texture and mellowed sophistication of a two hundred year old handcrafted facade.

Image



Image

As elegantly presented by Marks & Spencer further down the street. Indeed, the former West building would be even more elegant, with red brick elevations, fine wigged pointing, window reveals with subtle whispers of lime-feathered reveals, the potential for delicate tracery of late Georgian sashes, and a handsome shopfront with low, charming proportions. What we now have is a travesty in the context of the street’s Architectural Conservation Area designation, its prestige as the foremost shopping street of the city, and considering the amount of money spent for such spectacularly poor effect.

As gunter mentioned, beautiful brickwork of c. 1800 with fine jointing was presented in virtually immaculate condition when the render was comprehensively stripped off the building during the summer. The planning drawings only specified ‘repair/replacement where necessary’.

Image


The brick had previously been painted, hence its good condition under the render.

Image

Once the quality of the brickwork was exposed, every conceivable effort was made by third parties to ensure its repair and exposure under ACA legislation, but every stroke fell on deaf ears. Simply put, when the planning and development section of the planning authority is not interested, statutory legislation is ignored.

Likewise, pre-emptive warnings that all the historic windows in the building were going to be dumped, based on onserved precedent elsewhere, were also ignored. Therefore twelve historic sash windows, on Grafton Street, in 2011, were thrown in a skip. This is the level we're functioning at in Dublin.

The former elegant sashes.

Image


The new Disney sashes, which in no way accord with the original design, with double-glazed units, chunky timber members, inappropriate generic Victorian horns, and no less than plastic parting beads.

Image

Again, a reminder, Grafton Street, in 2011.
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