The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Buildin

Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby onq » Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:55 pm

CK wrote:
Are you really that naive onq? Paul obviously receives donations from RIAI members...


Research Paul's history and you'll see he is not affiliated to the RIAI in any way - but of course you went to the trouble of researching his history before making your unfounded allegations, didn't you? No? Quelle surprise...
By the way Paul, I would like to be removed from the members' list of these biased forums... How can I manage that?

I'm sure many people would echo that sentiment, unfortunately you are part of the legend that is Archiseek, just as you are inextricably linked with Brian "Monty" Montaut and Gary Solan and me for all time - believe me, I know how embarrassing this will turn out to be for all of us.....
It seems that you are able to remove any information that you like from the threads... I do not feel comfortable to be part of such a scam. Then please remove all my data or I will lodge a complaint to a relevant authority.

You cannot force a host to remove posts you freely made thus disturbing the integrity of the record.
Someone may want to use your online ramblings on archiseek as proof you have diminished mental capabilities....
You cannot manipulate a discussion in a way that change the outcome. out.


You haven't shown any manipulation on Paul's part - its you who are trying to manipulate the discussion by removing your old posts.

This is outrageous, especially if members cannot opt

You're overdoing the wronged, indignant "pauvre" Frenchman CK - it won't wash this time.

I will contact you privately on this subject...



BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!11111!!!!1111

Very French Foreign Legion CK - I expect Paul will run off and block up his chimney now...

HAPPY NEW YEAR...


Sure its only starting CK - has John Graby called around to your door yet?

Happy New Year yourself, CK!

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Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby onq » Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:48 pm

CK wrote:
Someone who has practiced for ten years or more is competent. You say that market assessment is not enough, but in the contrary it is much more valuable than any academic assessments. Someone who has practiced during 10 years proved that he has the skills to do so, as well as the skills to adapt to a fast changing working environment. Academic training is only a simulation… It does not reflect the real world…


I didn't respond to this nonsense assertion earlier but I do so now.

Someone who has practised "as an architect" for 10 years may be competent, but if all he has done is provided services to an architect as a technician, he is unlikely to have gained the experience necessary to claim membership of the architectural profession.

But it is totally incorrect to state as fact that merely because someone tries to do something for ten years he becomes competent at it by virtue of persistence.

That puts repetition on a par with "market tested" as a means to obtaining professional qualifications - it cannot stand any logical assessment.

Many people have natural limits to their talent they will never breach, many talented people without gaining proper experience will neve rreach their potential.

So to suggest mere repetition of a set of tasks without proper tuition or qualitative eassessment over a quantitative time limit empowers a perons with a qualitative professional ability fare above that of draughtsman or technician is a nonsense of the highest order.

Some people who have not had formal academic training in a prescribed course may have both the necessary raw talent and be lucky to gain the appropriate training, expertise and experience to provide services commensurate with those of an architect - they are few and far between in my experience.

I know from personal experience of one who appears to have done so, having reviewed that person's claimed work and tested that person's mettle, judgement and ability against my own - that's one person CK - not a multitide.

As for the rest of the Alliance, there may be one or two others, but I cannot say whether or not for certain because I have little or no experience of them directly and almost none of their work.

But to suggest that someone can become an architect merely because they may have stuck at it the attempt for ten years without formal academic training - I would say there is two chances of that being correct, CK.

A solicitor may be happy to accept their technical opinion on built work or their certificate for payment based on their past competence at signing certificates and their integrity and honesty, but a solicitor isn't competent to judge that person's ability as an architect and designer.

To get public acceptance practically trained architects need to be prepared to submit their work for qualitative assessment - anyone who doesn't want to stand up and show their work for review by competent professionals cannot expect accreditation as an architect based solely on their word and unsupported assertions.

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Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby CK » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:33 pm

I am sorry onq,

the poll was removed from this thread why?

removing some information, specially this poll is misleading the readers of this thread. I have privately contacted Paul and I am waiting for his explanation.

He may have created this discussion board, but this does not give him the right to influence the content by removing information.

With regard to Paul being independent from the RIAI, this does not mean that he does not share similar interests, but this is not the problem here.

This discussion forum pretends to give freedom of speech to supporters and opponents of the actual legislation but it also manipulates the information as to please the RIAI.

I was interested to participate to this thread as long as the conversation was hosted by a neutral organization. Obviously this is not the case anymore. I believe that Paul is acting unlawfully by manipulating the information as to favor the views of the RIAI. I would like him to remove my data from this forum for this reason.

He has the technical ability to do so. He cannot oblige me to stay as a member and in the same time, use his position to manipulate information on this thread as to undermine my point of view. I think that a court in Northern Ireland or in the ROI would acknowledge that this is not acceptable.

I am not asking Paul to change his way of doing. If this is the type of forum that he is willing to run, he can do so, but not with me.

Paul I will give you a few days to remove my membership of archiseek (which was first named archeire when I registered) and all other personal data. If you refuse to do so, I will consider that you are using this forum and manipulating information for misleading the public and acting my personal interests.
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Message sent to Paul Clerkin

Postby CK » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:54 pm

Paul Clerkin wrote:What the fuck are you on about now


Hi Paul,

Keep your "fuck" out of this...

The poll was removed from the thread "The sensitive issue of the title architect..."

I believe that you or someone working with you is manipulating the information by removing data from the thread.

You said first that you were not responsible from the thread being removed from the first page of the google search engine; however, the removing of the poll from the thread can only be your action or the action of someone working with you.

Otherwise how can you explain it?

I was interested to participate to this thread only if the organisation hosting the discussion was acting in a neutral way. I believe that this is not the case anymore. I think that my request is only normal and fair.

I will give you a few days to remove my membership of archiseek (which was first named archeire when I registered) and all other personal data. If you refuse to do so, I will consider that you are using this forum and manipulating information for misleading the public and acting against my personal interests.

Regards
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Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby CK » Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:09 pm

Paul Clerkin wrote:You, Sir, are a nut.
I do not interfere with threads or take donations to change them.

If the number do not co-incide that is merely an unfortunate site effect of the import of the old boards into the new boards or more probably the merging of the many many threads that you start on the same subject when you become bogged down arguing in circles. If the poll is gone, it is because of the forums merge.

Alternatively crack units of the MRIAI Ninja Taskforce may actually be hacking into your computer from their mountain lair in Wicklow


Paul you are taking us for for a ride here... I am not that ignorant regarding database...

Maybe you are trying to do too much by running the main site and a discussion forum in the same time. If you decided to remove this thread all together, it would be understandable, but you cannot only remove parts of it. Or if you decide to do so then I ask you to remove the data that I created too.
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Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby Paul Clerkin » Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:15 pm

CK has been removed from the site for his patently untrue allegations against me and the site and his paranoid rambling and inability to see sense.

Hate doing this but he's his own worst enemy - and doing untold damage to his own cause - more so that a dropped poll or a thread disappearing down the google rankings.

Over the almost 15 years of this website, I have banned only a handfull of people - usually for repeated libel/slander, and do so for the health of the site.

Inline with standard procedure on forums, I shall not be removing his posts to preserve the integrity of the previous discussion.

Once again this site is free of any interference from any architectural organisations be those professional like the RIAI, or historical and conservation minded. I do not edit or remove posts without saying I have and for the usual reasons of libel or copyright infringement (sometimes I am asked to remove photos). I do not have an agenda other than getting the public to interact more with the built environment and to encourage discussion.

I receive no payment for doing this - other than what the site generates (not a lot). Indeed it is fair to say that the site has cost me a lot over the years, as it is a massive time commitment and stops me from doing nixers/projects for personal clients.

Hopefully ck-gate is now at an end.
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Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby vca » Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:07 pm

Happy New Year Paul

It looks like you have made a good start by getting rid of CK!

I look forward to following the forums without his paranoia.
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Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby apelles » Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:34 pm

vca wrote:Happy New Year Paul

It looks like you have made a good start by getting rid of CK!

I look forward to following the forums without his paranoia.


Alright . .Enough's enough, Talk about kicking a man when he's down.
While Paul had every right to banish CK, he may be banned from taking part in the forums but he can still read them.
Give em a break.
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Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby onq » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:00 pm

CK, I know you are reading this, so please take this in.

You were previously informed that the relocation of the forum to different software / temporary addresses was what knocked Archiseek off the bookmark you had.
Problems can occur even when websites are running normally, but a changeover is not classed as normal running in any web-master's book.
Even this week there was a connectivity problem which Paul addressed in order to allow us to participate over the holiday period.
Paul is diligent and incredibly restrained as a web-master in comparison to most discussion forums I have participated in.

As for your comments about Archiseek being influenced by the RIAI - this is patent nonsense.
The posters here seem to include several MRIAI's, some Alliance Members and Graduates.
There are also many non-architects like PVC King who also contribute to the debate.
The RIAI /John Graby have issued comments in RL, but so far not online AFAIK.

I think you owe Paul an apology for making unfounded comments here.
And another for posting his private correspondence to Archiseek.

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Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby onq » Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:52 pm

<< channelling CK>>

Zut alors!

Ze forum eet is a traverstie of its former gloree.

Ze clones have all gone on skiing trips and we now see zat zere are only 30 regulaires.

Sacre bleu!

<< /channelling CK>>

Or is it with his departure all the RIAI monitors have been told to stand down and had their overtime payments stopped?

Damn! This paranoia is catching!

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Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby DOC » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:52 pm

I am really starting to miss my daily dose of CK. He was beginning to cheer me up in an otherwise pretty cheerless world!
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Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby apelles » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:05 pm

Shall we start a campaign to get him back on . .I'm sure he would of calmed down by now.
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Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby onq » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:42 pm

The call on this one is Paul's IMO - its his website and his reputation that seems to have been impugned, as well as the RIAI's.
CK can get quite "thick" when he's arguing his corner and he was advised several times by me to back off and apologise.
It seems that he chose not to do so as evidenced by the lack of any apology printed here, so he's made his bed.

There is also the question of whether he has anything meaningful left to contribute to the ongoing debate.
CK has been around the houses on the substantive argument here many times with many people.
I'm not sure what usefulness his contributions would bring especially if he's defaming people.

However one was never quite sure where he was going to fire a letter off to next.
I am going to miss that passionate unpredictability of his around this forum.
Apelles, that's one spooky looking avatar :)

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Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby apelles » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:12 pm

onq wrote:Apelles, that's one spooky looking avatar :)

ONQ.


Ditto ONQ . .ditto.
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Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby Solo » Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:16 am

onq wrote:And while I'm on Paul, what's gone on with the metrics of this thread.

Replies: 1191

Views: 354

How can there be four times fewer views than replies?

ONQ.


Thats cause some people never shut up LOL
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Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby Solo » Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:19 am

CK wrote:
onq wrote:
apelles wrote:That must be the amount of views since the changeover, it obviously wasn't updated properly.

<nods>
That was my thought too, but then I noticed most other threads seemed to have updated okay.
A mystery - or CK's paranoia is having an effect!
Agggghhk!
;)
ONQ.

Are you really that naive onq? Paul obviously receives donations from RIAI members...
By the way Paul, I would like to be removed from the members' list of these biased forums... How can I manage that?
It seems that you are able to remove any information that you like from the threads... I do not feel comfortable to be part of such a scam. Then please remove all my data or I will lodge a complaint to a relevant authority.
You cannot manipulate a discussion in a way that change the outcome. This is outrageous, especially if members cannot opt out.
I will contact you privately on this subject...
HAPPY NEW YEAR...


Wow CK making friends again I see.
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Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby Solo » Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:30 am

CK wrote:
Paul Clerkin wrote:You, Sir, are a nut.
I do not interfere with threads or take donations to change them.
If the number do not co-incide that is merely an unfortunate site effect of the import of the old boards into the new boards or more probably the merging of the many many threads that you start on the same subject when you become bogged down arguing in circles. If the poll is gone, it is because of the forums merge.
Alternatively crack units of the MRIAI Ninja Taskforce may actually be hacking into your computer from their mountain lair in Wicklow

Paul you are taking us for for a ride here... I am not that ignorant regarding database...
Maybe you are trying to do too much by running the main site and a discussion forum in the same time. If you decided to remove this thread all together, it would be understandable, but you cannot only remove parts of it. Or if you decide to do so then I ask you to remove the data that I created too.


Wow CK I know I told you and Onq to spice it up a bit as you were dropping down the rankings but this is much better than I anticipated. It's great who said handbags at dawn we are way past handbags now.
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Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby Solo » Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:34 am

Paul Clerkin wrote:CK has been removed from the site for his patently untrue allegations against me and the site and his paranoid rambling and inability to see sense.
Hate doing this but he's his own worst enemy - and doing untold damage to his own cause - more so that a dropped poll or a thread disappearing down the google rankings.
Over the almost 15 years of this website, I have banned only a handfull of people - usually for repeated libel/slander, and do so for the health of the site.
Inline with standard procedure on forums, I shall not be removing his posts to preserve the integrity of the previous discussion.
Once again this site is free of any interference from any architectural organisations be those professional like the RIAI, or historical and conservation minded. I do not edit or remove posts without saying I have and for the usual reasons of libel or copyright infringement (sometimes I am asked to remove photos). I do not have an agenda other than getting the public to interact more with the built environment and to encourage discussion.
I receive no payment for doing this - other than what the site generates (not a lot). Indeed it is fair to say that the site has cost me a lot over the years, as it is a massive time commitment and stops me from doing nixers/projects for personal clients.
Hopefully ck-gate is now at an end.


Just when it was getting interesting again. Ck is a bit of a loose cannon and if you ever met him actually a nice person and quite interesting to talk to but he does seem to loose the plot every now and again. I know from experience.
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Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby onq » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:23 am

apelles wrote:
onq wrote:Apelles, that's one spooky looking avatar :)

ONQ.


Ditto ONQ . .ditto.


I suppose we can expect Paul Clerkin's avatar looking like Gandalf the Grey sometime soon...

ONQ.
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Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby onq » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:24 am

Solo wrote:
Paul Clerkin wrote:
Just when it was getting interesting again. Ck is a bit of a loose cannon and if you ever met him actually a nice person and quite interesting to talk to but he does seem to loose the plot every now and again. I know from experience.


I think you mis-spelt "Scud missile".

Plus you and I have met CK in other circumstances, and in neither case was he blowing his top.

(although rumour has it he had to be held back during the presentation to the JOC, but then, didn't we all to some degree... LOL!)

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Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby onq » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:28 am

Solo wrote:
Wow CK I know I told you and Onq to spice it up a bit as you were dropping down the rankings but this is much better than I anticipated. It's great who said handbags at dawn we are way past handbags now.


One guy swinging a handbag at empty air does not a tournament make...

If CK had stuck to the handbags instead of charging off course at the King who was sponsoring the tournament he might still be here.

Still, we've seen this kind of behaviour from CK before - his Gallic passion gets the better of him, he can't seem to find the stop button - never mind the reverse - and off he goes into the distance... a pity, but somehow, inevitable...

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Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby onq » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:33 am

Solo wrote:
onq wrote:And while I'm on Paul, what's gone on with the metrics of this thread.

Replies: 1191

Views: 354

How can there be four times fewer views than replies?

ONQ.


Thats cause some people never shut up LOL


I see the maths is giving you trouble again, Solo.

Each time I viewed my own posts before editing it seemed to me a view was counted.

So it follows logically that the number of posts cannot be more than the number of views.

As for having the last word, we'll see how many reply cycles you last when you get your teeth into a thing.

Endless, I should imagine... :rolleyes:

(Why am I seeing only the test version of :rolleyes: - don't these avatars appear as graphics, or is everybody seeing this properly and its just my browser settings?)

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Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby onq » Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:43 pm

Righto, enough waffling about Solo's inability to count and CK's departure.

Here is the list of jobs for architects on offer from Jobrapido - it is a joke, with not one "proper" archtiect listed thereon - it paints a picture of a Title so debased in the public eye as to be meaningless and casts huge questions ove the competence an real intent of those who promoted and passed the Building Control Act 2007 - it is impossible for the intent of the Act - the clarification in the public eye of what the word "Architect" means, when current usage is as debased as it is.

=====================================================

From:

http://www.jobrapido.ie/?j=nvvzk9vvutxa ... JOB_SEARCH

Search also: Naval Architect, Project Architect, Systems Architect, Interior Architect, Solution Architect

Location
Systems Verification Test (SVT) Software Engineering - Technical Leader/Architect
IBM Ireland Limited
9 Jan 2011 • www.ibm.com
Dublin

Senior Solutions Architect - Services Strategic Platform
Dell Inc.
9 Jan 2011 • www.dell.com
Dublin

Solution Architect - Financial Services South Dublin
Computer Futures Solutions Limited
8 Jan 2011 • www.computerfutures.com
Dublin

Software architect / Consultant – Dortmund, Germanynew
MeghenGroup International
8 Jan 2011 • www.meghengroup.com
DublinUnread

4 X Senior C# Developers - URGENT - 1 X Architect
Stelfox Ltd
8 Jan 2011 • www.stelfox.ie
Dublin

Architect Open Source (PHP/MySQL)
Collins Mcnicholas Recruitment And Training Group
8 Jan 2011 • www.loadzajobs.ie
Londonderry

Service Architect Tower Lead
Fujitsu Uk
7 Jan 2011 • www.jobsnation.net
Ireland

Customer Solutions Architect
Fujitsu Uk
7 Jan 2011 • www.jobsnation.net
Ireland

Solution Design Architect
Vodafone
7 Jan 2011 • www.jobsnation.net
Ireland

Systems Mgmt Architect (Netcool)
Fujitsu Uk
7 Jan 2011 • www.jobsnation.net

=====================================================

Its a joke.

All the grief the RIAI have put Graduates and Grandfathers through, preventing them from using the title architect and this is going on.

Oh, I can hear Graby's excuse now - "THEY'RE NOT EVEN IN THE BUILDING INDUSTRY - NO ONE COULD MISTAKE THESE FOR REAL ARCHITECTS".

That's not the point John.

You have disenfranchised people who have traded for years as Architects and prevented Graduates using a title that is rightfull theirs, and prevented their certs being acceptable, at a time when Technicians and Engineers are merrily providing archtiectural services and certifying - as architects or WHATEVER, but certifying and having their certs accepted.

All this is happening at the same time that the primary title is being undermined by every Tom Dick and Harriet in the software profession.
Its bad enough architects with five years of a course behind them or ten years or more in practice have to play second fiddle to technicians and engineers when it comes to certifying work, but to see this nonsense from a totally unrelated profession muddying the waters - its not on!

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Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby onq » Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:53 pm

Righto, enough waffling about Solo's inability to count and CK's departure.

Here is the list of jobs for architects on offer from Jobrapido - it paints a picture of a Title so debased in the public eye as to be meaningless and raises huge questions ove the real intent of those who promoted and passed the Building Control Act 2007.

It is patently impossible for the intent of the Act - the clarification in the public eye of what the word "Architect" means - become a reality when current usage of the Title Architect is as debased as it is.

=====================================================

From:

http://www.jobrapido.ie/?j=nvvzk9vvutxa ... JOB_SEARCH

Search also: Naval Architect, Project Architect, Systems Architect, Interior Architect, Solution Architect

Location
Systems Verification Test (SVT) Software Engineering - Technical Leader/Architect
IBM Ireland Limited
9 Jan 2011 • http://www.ibm.com
Dublin

Senior Solutions Architect - Services Strategic Platform
Dell Inc.
9 Jan 2011 • http://www.dell.com
Dublin

Solution Architect - Financial Services South Dublin
Computer Futures Solutions Limited
8 Jan 2011 • http://www.computerfutures.com
Dublin

Software architect / Consultant – Dortmund, Germany
MeghenGroup International
8 Jan 2011 • http://www.meghengroup.com
DublinUnread

4 X Senior C# Developers - URGENT - 1 X Architect
Stelfox Ltd
8 Jan 2011 • http://www.stelfox.ie
Dublin

Architect Open Source (PHP/MySQL)
Collins Mcnicholas Recruitment And Training Group
8 Jan 2011 • http://www.loadzajobs.ie
Londonderry

Service Architect Tower Lead
Fujitsu Uk
7 Jan 2011 • http://www.jobsnation.net
Ireland

Customer Solutions Architect
Fujitsu Uk
7 Jan 2011 • http://www.jobsnation.net
Ireland

Solution Design Architect
Vodafone
7 Jan 2011 • http://www.jobsnation.net
Ireland

Systems Mgmt Architect (Netcool)
Fujitsu Uk
7 Jan 2011 • http://www.jobsnation.net

=====================================================

All the grief the RIAI have put Graduates and Grandfathers through, preventing them from using the title architect and this is going on.
It is a joke, with not one "proper" architect listed on the list above and this is only one out of many websites.
I could level similar accusations of selective administration at the ARB - they're for dessert, elsewhere.

Oh, I can hear John Graby's excuse now, as he strides across what's left of the the profession like a colossus -
"But they're not even in the building industry - no-one could mistake these people for real architects."
Oh really? They mistook David Grant for a real architect for long enough, didn't they?
Wasn't the purpose of the BCA 2007 to bring clarity to the use of the Title?

Because it hasn't brought much clarity that I can see.
Its only prevented Graduates from using the title, but hasn't regulated the provision of services.

The Building Control Act 2007 disenfranchised people who have traded for years as Architects and prevented Graduates using a title that is rightfull theirs under EU Law, and prevented their certs being acceptable.

This is occuring at a time when Technicians and Engineers are merrily providing architectural services and certifying - as themselve or as architects or WHATEVER, but certifying the provision of architectural services AND having their certs accepted!

All this is happening at the same time that the primary title is being undermined by every Tom Dick and Harriet in the software profession!

Its bad enough architects with five years of a prescribed course to their name or ten years or more in competent practice have to play second fiddle to technicians and engineers when it comes to certifying work, but to see this nonsense made of the Title by a totally unrelated profession muddying the waters - its just not on!

Lets see if the Registrar is only good at hitting soft targets or whether he has the teeth to prevent this continuing abuse of the Title Architect.

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Re: The sensitive issue of the title "Architect" and the Bui

Postby onq » Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:02 pm

I'm toying with the idea of developing a "rate your architect" website along the lines of http://www.rate-your-solicitor.com/

What is the view of Members of Archiseek on such a proposal?

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