Interconnector aka DART underground

Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby cagey » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:57 am

Peter Fitz wrote:

If you're going to spread bollox propaganda with your entirely warped perspective on distance & time, do it elsewhere.


It is not difficult to figure who works for CIE/IE who's arrogant attitude is plain for all to see. The propaganda dear Peter is all yours, but you will not fool anybody in here. You didn't even bother to measure for yourself. I offered a URL to the DU RO site if needed but you didnt even bother. How pathetic!!!

The legitimate question still remains, WHO CAN SUGGEST A FIX? ... Not Peter F obviously.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby cagey » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:46 am

PVC King wrote:
Who has a solution to Pearce Underground (PU) being built under Erne Street ... approx 1Km underground walk to mainline Pearce????

I suggest you go to http://maps.google.com/ and type in Erne Street Dublin 2 Ireland
1. Bond Street - Central to Jubilee c300m
.

Things only get worse. I thought PU platforms would be over Erne Street but now I find that the DU Pearse platforms are south from Erne Street over Fenian St(another possible 174 Meters).
I can understand the London underground 300m, as their setup is quite complicated, and the Jubilee was late into the mix, but the draft DU Rail Order is for only one underground route at Pearse and CIE/IE cannot get that right.

Even if you make your own measurements (mine were from DU-ST_105_A-B_01.PDF of the Rail Order, a bit rough as there is no direct scale, only a ratio), PU is not under Pearse mainline, is it?? So CIE miss by 100s of Metres?? That cannot be right in your opinion, can it?
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby PVC King » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:58 pm

Escalators are not lift shafts; if the tunnel is 60m down then the minimum distance is 60m on the basis of a 50% gradient but it is more likely to be 60:40% or 70:30%; anything less than 300m is well within International norms. From citing a mile walk when the distance is less than one eighth of that distance I suspect you don't have a point......
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby cagey » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:04 am

PU is not under Pearse mainline, is it?? So CIE miss by 100s of Metres?? That cannot be right in your opinion, can it?

I can see this is a complete waste of my time ... unless you pluck up the courage to answer the question above.
The indoctrinated can never see the truth. Even my 7 yr old laughed when I showed the .PDF figure, an Architectural joke ... LOL
The PDF is DU-ST_105_A-B_01.PDF for those architects who want to see the joke.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby PVC King » Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:59 am

100m is in comparison to International examples a very small distance; as you fail to understand passengers are not lemmings they do not travel vertically down.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby cagey » Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:45 pm

Please look at the Railway Order diagrams so others do not have to put up with your lack of knowledge (I hope it is not a deliberate subterfuge tho' I suspect so). Unfortunately this site will not let me post the diagrams. Where on earth did you get 100M? and you sir are the one following the CIE Pied Piper.

The escalator from DU is at right angles to the direction to Pearce Main line and is no help distance wise. You should have seen that instead of time wasting.
That is why I quoted "a little escalator time". From there the walk is across a ticket hall and up a slope to the escalator to the mainline platform . As I said the walk is equivalent to 1Km (not 1 mile) on the flat, and for the normal unencumbered person will take at least 15 minutes.
It is outrageous, considering this is a new underground at the design stage that this Architectural blunder (as proposed) is being foisted upon current DART users, not to mention years of future users, and you are wrong sir to try to justify the blunder. It makes me question your motives, and rightly so.
To miss by over 300M in design is unpardonable for a main interchange station (the Heuston DU is directly under as is the St Stephen's Green Metro (a little offset)).
Please remember you are on a site for architectural discussion where "fixes" should be discussed and not meek resignation towards blunders. It is like accepting CIE putting the loo at the bottom of the garden, and you justifying same.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby PVC King » Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:07 pm

http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/pdf/Da ... 20Area.pdf

http://www.irishrail.ie/upload/DART%20U ... Street.pdf

http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/pdf/Da ... Pearse.pdf


The distance is 200m which is by International standards short, you do not have a point.

The new Sandwith Street station entrance looks attractive but the site may have accomodated a lot more
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby cagey » Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:39 pm

PVC King wrote:The distance is 200m which is by International standards short, you do not have a point.

The new Sandwith Street station entrance looks attractive but the site may have accomodated a lot more


Trying to change the discussion is an old unacceptable trick.
http://www.dartundergroundrailwayorder. ... er-liffey/
here you will find the most up to date diagrams.

You highlight matters which are worse for the DU Pearse design ....
the DU escalators can be seen to be 45% approx in direction away from the Pearse Mainline, making my morning travel even longer.
Now sir I am of the opinion that you are a member of that awful design team !!! otherwise, why would you try to condone this Architectural blunder which is far from any International Architectural Standard.
Maybe a railway operator like CIE might accept this kind of blunder but not surely any architect or rail user.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby cagey » Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:46 pm

In one way PVC King does us a service in highlighting the CIE attitude to its users.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby cagey » Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:58 pm

cagey wrote:Please look at the Railway Order diagrams

Sorry PVC King you are obviously not part of the design team, otherwise you would have know the diagrams you posted are way out of date. The alignment of DU is under the proposed Sandwich Street entrance which is under 1/2 way up Fenian Street.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby PVC King » Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:17 pm

DU-ST 105 A-B 02 (PEARSE STATION - STREET LEVEL PLAN IN CONTEXT) is from the Railway order and confirms the locations outlined in the three links posted above. The distance is 200m and well within International norms. You are making no point and have obviously never used a system based on interchange. I'm sure if you speak to your local Fianna Fail TD he'll promise you a direct door to door limo if you vote for him.....
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby cagey » Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:02 am

Please stop the BS. You really are very annoying because you cannot or will not read the diagrams properly.
http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/pdf/Da ... Pearse.pdf
is wrong, wrong, wrong.
As I said
The alignment of DU is under the proposed Sandwich Street entrance and is under 1/2 way up Fenian Street.


You are wrong about Interchange and I ... I spent 5 yrs using a very bad interchange, as I had no choice (A La DU RO).

Have you noticed the way up to Pearse mainline from DU is opposite the New Entrance from Pearse Street and not at the southern end of Pearse Mainline station. I bet you deliberately ignored that or didn't even look.

I have come to the conclusion you are hopelessly indoctrinated, and are still pretending the loo at the bottom of the garden is a good alignment.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby PVC King » Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:40 am

Have you any idea of the engineering challenges of building a new underground station and keeping an existing station open for service?

The Sandwith street site is a good choice for the following reasons

1. The existing station is pretty much fully developed given the new DU faculty and earlier Wintergarden flat complex.
2. Much of the passenger traffic using Pearse are office workers who commute to places like Fitzwilliam Sq, Lower Mount St and Baggot St who will have a shorter walk than at present.
3. The site exists in a single plot to create a decent entrance reducing CPO costs.

Just get the following into your head; the average person walks at 4 miles or 6,400m per hour; the walk on this interchange will be 200m or less than 2 mins; users of the Northern line DART service will have a better choice of stations than at present. This project is necessary and will happen.....
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby cagey » Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:10 pm

Finally you admit that Pearse DU is as proposed in order to suit CIE.
As regards your (2) above... the proposed Merrion DU entrance has been cancelled from the RO ... so much for what CIE think of your (2) people.

So what's wrong with trying to get a "FIX" in here? Is this not the correct forum?
like move the Mainline Platform stopping position east + new escalators from farther up the platform down to Westland Row street level????? Simple huh ??? ... move the house to the loo ... LOL
At the moment I think the Maynooth train would stop at the west end of mainline Pearse, the farthest from the proposed Pearse DU.

I agree with DU .. it should be built ... but not Pearse as proposed in the DU RO, and I am not the only one (understatement) who thinks CIE are building the loo at the bottom of the garden.

If it will further help PVC King I will get the official 3 distances from CIE sources and will post them here honestly.
(a) From northern end of DU to the entrance up into Pearse (opposite proposed new Pearse Entrance).
(b) From Fenian St end of DU platform to Westland Row end of Pearse mainline.
(c) From midway of DU to midway of Pearse mainline.
The above will take a few days.

After that I expect Pearse DU to be discussed. I would like new ideas.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby PVC King » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:53 am

Finally you admit that Pearse DU is as proposed in order to suit CIE.


You need insert the words existing passengers to the end of your sentance; it is designed in a manner to keep the existing station open.

the proposed Merrion DU entrance has been cancelled from the RO


Never a runner the IGS would have gone nuts; and rightly so.

I am not the only one (understatement) who thinks CIE are building the loo at the bottom of the garden.


It would appear you are
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby cagey » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:12 pm

You need insert the words existing passengers to the end of your sentance; it is designed in a manner to keep the existing station open.

It is quite easy to move/extend Pearse mainline to fit between Cumberland St and Sandwich street at very little cost and leave lots of room for DU works inside and under Pearse, so keeping Pearse open is a nonsense excuse for still building the loo at the bottom of the garden
To PVC King: I notice in many of your posts in here how you erroneously contradict and when you are shown to be in error you never say sorry. To say the least, this negates the effectiveness of this forum. Please desist sir.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby PVC King » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:48 pm

From a site assembly point of view the best solution for the station was chosen; a single plot in a single ownership; from a personal safety point of view in terms of natural light and proximity to the Archers Garage office complex the location is spot on in that it gets free private sector security input. I salute the site selection as perfect on the part of the project team.

You question my prose style, I have been consistent the distance is 200m from the existing platform it is interchanging with; well within International norms for interchanges. You should also salute the perfect site selection and wishes of CIE to keep Pearse Station operating normally during the construction phase.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby cagey » Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:15 am

Dear PVC King,
The diagram you quoted below is out of date
http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/pdf/Da ... Pearse.pdf
and was wrong wrong wrong .... Is that correct???

Your excuse for the Pearse DU positioning was to keep Pearse mainline open.
I showed that to be a nonsense ... is that correct???

Pearse DU alignment misses being under Pearse mainline by more than 200M... is that correct????

You have consistently attacked the spelling of others while your own spelling is atrocious ... is that correct????
you would not like me to quote your mistakes ... is that correct??? If you don't say sorry I will do so.

Many members in here have shown your posts to be incorrect ... you never once have said " sorry I was wrong" ... is that correct?

And the proposal for the loo is still at the bottom of the garden.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby PVC King » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:57 am

Then post the correct drawing if you assert the CIE drawing is out of date. For the record I am more likely to attack purile repetition than spelling, we are all busy people. 200m is a completely acceptable distance for an interchange; I note the absence of anyone agreeing with your assertion that the drawing is out of date or that the distance is an issue. It seems CIE have got this station spot on.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby PVC King » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:06 pm

You have posted exactly the same drawing again of the Sandwith Street portal with no alterations other than a temporary road closure of one of Pearse Streets feeder rat runs. You should be banned for spamming
PVC King
 

Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby cagey » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:41 pm

The mystery of what is wrong with the Pearse underground to Pearse mainline interchange has come to light.
It seems that when a DU traveler arrives at Pearse DU they must first travel up to street level to the ticket hall then they will have to go down again to the tunnel under Cumberland Street and finally climb two levels through the new Pearse Street entrance level before having to visit the mainline ticket office. What a fiasco. I haven't got a time from CIE/IE for how long that will take. I guess it will depend on the ticket queue.
to PVC ... I have nothing to say to you until you say sorry to all those you contradicted erroneously in this forum.
Last edited by cagey on Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby PVC King » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:48 pm

You obviously don't work in anything related to built environment if you can't read the plans.

The station moves from 1 entrance to 3 seperate entrances on

1. Westland Row (existing) - no reason for anyone to use this unless they are exiting for TCD
2. Pearse Street (new)
3. Sandwith Street (new)

Each will have automatic barriers and ticket machines which will suit everyone except those who just go to mither the station tellers with their problems. run along it must be past your bed time.....
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby cagey » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:54 pm

PVC King wrote:You obviously don't work in anything related to built environment if you can't read the plans.


You came up with nothing except an out of date URL.
It is well over 300M walk ... say sorry PVC
Until you do this is my last remark to you.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby cagey » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:58 pm

Do you have to be told every little detail PVC .... find out for yourself.

To interchange at Pearse You will have to go through two ticket barriers.
Approx twice the length of Pearse mainline ... over 400M + the up and down bits.
To compare, I can tell all here that a long DART is 174M long
Last edited by cagey on Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby PVC King » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:59 pm

The interchange is 200m; the exit from Sandwith street is neglible; the egress from Dart is unchanged. time for beddie byebyes
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