Interconnector aka DART underground

Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby DouglasHyde » Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:53 pm

bg07 wrote:MN railway order took more like 20 months assuming it is granted this month. It was originally lodged on the 18th of September 2008.

Link

If ABP take as long with DU then it probably wont granted within the term current government with sufficient time to get contracts signed off etc.


I can see the bould Inda getting his claws into the DU.
Certain we will have a wonderful FG gov by the time the DU railway order is granted.
Will never get built.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby PVC King » Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:11 pm

Not convinced if Inda is to get elected he like Garret in Nov 1982 will win a swathe of seats in Dublin; if Inda has one skill it is understanding populism; if he understands the implications of unpopularity he will not condemn commuters in North and South Kildare, East Meath, Louth, Wicklow East, Dun Laoghaire, DSE, DNE, Dublin North, DNW, Dublin West, Dublin Central, DSW to crush loaded unconnected rail for a prolonged period. If he were to consider Metro he'd definitely bin it other than serving his old sparring partner Richard Bruton's DNC and Swords it doesn't hit much else....


Beyond political considerations building Luas North from Swords to DCU as planned minus the elevated section/tunnel at Old Ballymun and going on street to Botanic Road into a tunnel to the dried out canal bed before continuing on Steet from Constitution Hill to O'Connell Street and integrating Green BX with its third rail technology represents an affordable and workable solution that balances connections the need for connections to Swords, the Airport and Ballymun with a set of public finances that will consign the electorate to revolving Dails for the next 2 decades such will be the unpopularity of each government elected should they stick together for a five year set of austere budgets. Should the fiscal position not be as bleak as the bond hawks would lead you to believe and should Luas North not be as efficient as it should be then there is the option of building a line underground from DCU to Ranelagh to deliver a completely segregated Luas Green from Cherrywood to Swords by connecting the bit in the middle with a larger inner city tram network.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby weehamster » Wed Jul 14, 2010 12:02 am

If he were to consider Metro he'd definitely bin it other than serving his old sparring partner Richard Bruton's DNC and Swords it doesn't hit much else....

:confused:err..sorry, but Metro North will not serve Dublin North Central at all :cool: DNC is served currently by the DART.

Metro North will go through Dublin South East (Lucinda Creighton), Central, North West & North (James Reilly).
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby PVC King » Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:52 am

It almost serves DNC as the divisional line isDrumcoundra Road; however it does not serve the majority of the population of Dublin North the majority of whom are based in Dart towns along the coast stretching from Portmarnock to Balbriggan.

Would you care to list the population between O'Connell Bridge and Stephens Green so that you may clarify that the residential element of DSE commencing at Charlemont St are reliant on the Luas link up and interconnector for progress
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby DouglasHyde » Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:08 pm

PVC King wrote:Not convinced if Inda is to get elected he like Garret in Nov 1982 will win a swathe of seats in Dublin; if Inda has one skill it is understanding populism; if he understands the implications of unpopularity he will not condemn commuters in North and South Kildare, East Meath, Louth, Wicklow East, Dun Laoghaire, DSE, DNE, Dublin North, DNW, Dublin West, Dublin Central, DSW to crush loaded unconnected rail for a prolonged period. If he were to consider Metro he'd definitely bin it other than serving his old sparring partner Richard Bruton's DNC and Swords it doesn't hit much else....


Beyond political considerations building Luas North from Swords to DCU as planned minus the elevated section/tunnel at Old Ballymun and going on street to Botanic Road into a tunnel to the dried out canal bed before continuing on Steet from Constitution Hill to O'Connell Street and integrating Green BX with its third rail technology represents an affordable and workable solution that balances connections the need for connections to Swords, the Airport and Ballymun with a set of public finances that will consign the electorate to revolving Dails for the next 2 decades such will be the unpopularity of each government elected should they stick together for a five year set of austere budgets. Should the fiscal position not be as bleak as the bond hawks would lead you to believe and should Luas North not be as efficient as it should be then there is the option of building a line underground from DCU to Ranelagh to deliver a completely segregated Luas Green from Cherrywood to Swords by connecting the bit in the middle with a larger inner city tram network.

Wishful thinking I'm afraid. Fantasy land stuff.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby PVC King » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:02 pm

Not sure whether to adress you as dear Dead President or Your Late Excellency;

you state

Wishful thinking I'm afraid. Fantasy land stuff.


To which part the interconnector or reworked Luas North?
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby PVC King » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:54 am

Four consortiums battle it out for DART contract
Macquarie and Balfour Beatty in running for €2.5bn underground deal
By Emmet Oliver Deputy Business Editor


Tuesday August 03 2010

Some of the world's largest construction, engineering and investment banking groups -- including Macquarie and Balfour Beatty -- are believed to be on the shortlist for the DART Underground project, with an official announcement expected today.

Irish Rail will announce today that four consortiums have reached the pre-qualification phase for the DART Underground, a public-private partnership (PPP) contract believed to be worth €2.5bn.

The exact make-up of the consortiums will be disclosed in a statement later, but the Irish Independent understands Balfour Beatty Capital Ltd, Macquarie Capital Group and Bombardier Transportation UK are involved in three of the four consortiums as key partners.

Interest from international banking and engineering groups has been considerable but due to the scale of the work involved and the financing needs few Irish firms were in a position to express an interest.

Last week, the Government gave the project a boost when Taoiseach Brian Cowen said it would form part of its capital investment programme.

Construction

The statement today is expected to outline the contribution the project will make on the employment front, with 7,000 jobs created during each year of construction.

Irish Rail, the state partner in the project, claims indirect employment will also be created by improving access to certain parts of the city.

The DART Underground will effectively be a 7.6km tunnel connecting the Northern and Kildare rail lines, with new underground stations at Spencer Dock, Pearse Street, St Stephen's Green, Christchurch and Heuston.

There will also be a new surface station at Inchicore.

It is hoped DART Underground will be used by 64,000 commuters per hour.

Rail bosses have said that the new line will dramatically increase frequency and capacity for commuters on DART Northern, Maynooth and Kildare lines -- the three fastest-growing population corridors in the country -- and relieve congestion at Connolly Station.

A cost-benefit analysis of the project has been done and Irish Rail said this showed that the project would ultimately be self-financing.

Benefit

"It forecasts that DART Underground will generate almost 2.5 times more benefit than it will cost to build and will deliver significant wider economic benefits,'' said the company recently.

Under the contract, the successful private partner will be responsible for the design, construction, financing, commissioning and maintenance of the tunnel, stations and other facilities over the period of the PPP contract.

At this stage, the contract is envisaged to last for between 25 and 35 years, including the design and construction stages.

In return, the private partner will receive an annual "availability and performance-based'' payment.

Irish Rail will at all times retain responsibility for the operation of DART services through the tunnel.

A contract is expected to be awarded by mid-2012 with construction completed and services starting by the end of 2018.

- Emmet Oliver Deputy Business Editor


http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/four-consortiums-battle-it-out-for-dart-contract-2281754.html
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby thebig C » Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:16 pm

DouglasHyde wrote:I can see the bould Inda getting his claws into the DU.
Certain we will have a wonderful FG gov by the time the DU railway order is granted.
Will never get built.


I think FG have already stated that they would prefer any further cuts to come from the Current rather then Capital Budget. The only catch is, would Labour prefer to proceed with infrastructre at the expense of Civil Servants, single mothers, oap's etc?!

Of course, the eastiest job of all falls to FF. The can promise all the projects they want because, ultimately, it will be left to another government to make the final decision. Hense the reason why the Croke Park deal, the new Naval vessels all fall due in 2014.......
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby aj » Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:21 pm

think the most likely outcome is that the Dart underground goes ahead but the Metro gets canned.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby missarchi » Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:35 am

August 18th is the deadline for making submissions to An Bord Pleanála on CIÉ’s application for a Railway Order. The four-volume EIS is available for public inspection at An Bord Pleanála, 64 Marlborough Street, Dublin 1; Civic Offices, Wood Quay, Dublin 8; Heuston Station; Pearse Station; and Inchicore Works, Dublin 8. It may also be viewed on dart undergroundrailwayorder.ie

No one is selling cells that's insular.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0804/1224276150052.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2010/0802/1224276042062.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0804/1224276150020.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2010/0706/1224274100046.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0806/1224276309469.html

OPINION: The proposed Dart Underground station in Dublin’s Stephen’s Green could prove to be a blessing in disguise – and a very exciting prospect, writes DR DIARMUID Ó GRÁDA

GOD NEVER closes one window but he opens another one. It may be that the Railway Procurement Agency is now about to repeat this trick. A very exciting prospect has been opened up by the proposed placing of the Dart Underground and Metro North shared station below ground at St Stephen’s Green in Dublin, requiring major changes to the landscaping.

Anybody coming from the direction of Grafton Street can hardly fail to notice the strange appearance of the Green. The prospect is one of continuous high greenery, concealing the marvellous public space that has afforded Dubliners such a great amenity for three centuries.

There is anecdotal evidence that the Green has become so sequestered that it is putting off some visitors from going into it at all. This is entirely unacceptable and we now have a remedy for it. We can restore it to its original role and make it once again a truly European space.

It is important to remember that the Green was conceived at the end of the 17th century as one of the newfangled European squares, with the green space forming the centrepiece. It was envisaged as an open space complementing the fine houses – a place they could all overlook and share.

This was an early use of what the planners now call passive surveillance. It afforded a unity to the entire housing scheme, while also yielding great scope for passive amenity and social intercourse. At the same time, those within the Green could look up and admire the modern architecture of the houses.

And the Green afforded another dividend that has long been neglected. Those within the new houses could look across beyond the open space itself, taking in the novelty of their counterparts on the opposite side – near, but not too near. This was a novelty, adding the extra dimension of formally arranged layers and dimensions.

What we have lost can be regained. There is no justification for the modesty screen that some misguided gardeners planted all around the perimeter. On each side we see dull laurel trees, no good to man or beast. A tree in the wrong place is merely a weed. The computer generated image of the intended Dart works published in The Irish Times on Wednesday reveals how we could once more get to see the real Green. Exposing the expanse of the square to visitors approaching it would surely lift their hearts. This must be done so that we all will see the full extent of the place. There are so few sizeable squares in Dublin that at least one of them needs to be kept sufficiently open to allow us to appreciate its extent.

Dr Diarmuid Ó Gráda is a lecturer in planning at University College, Dublin

Stephen

"There is anecdotal evidence that the Green has become so sequestered that it is putting off some visitors from going into it at all"

I'm not sure the Green is short of visitors.

College Green is obvious place for transport hub, and its location would have added benifits (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2010/0706/1224274100046.html).

Location of transport hub in Stephen's Green will require extensive excavations and destruction of mature trees. It is a short sighted choice of location.
5 days ago, 10:13:54 AM
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[This user is an administrator] tommy lawlor
Fair points form a clever man - but do those boxes have to be quite so ugly in such a prominent location?
5 days ago, 10:42:34 AM
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[This user is an administrator] Robert Browne
My God to think that you are a lecturer in planning in UCD? Small wonder that Dublin has been and continues to be destroyed. There is hardly a building of any architectural merit that has been put up during the last 40 years never mind all the tiny single bed apartments sanctioned by planners. I know the RIAI give out prizes every year but since when has any of the public ever voted for their creations?

Walk down any of Dublin's undulating main streets, dodge the pot holes, broken paving, litter, steel advertising poles, junkies listen to the growing cacophony of beggars, look up, and you will see reminders of quality craftsmanship and architecture. However, it is all too disparate. Glass boxes and wire cut cement bricks glued together with cement renders now fill the gaps once occupied by thoughtful, proportioned buildings Dublin displays a lamentably low standard of buildings, and signage. There is practically no continuity or uniformity of architecture and the state and public servants are directly responsible for the low standards as they have lowest standards. They cave in time and time again to developers. What am I saying? I have to remind myself that it was DCC in all too many instances that cheer led the blight and who were de facto Celtic Tiger developers themselves.

In the middle of the maddening mediocracy and dessertification that Dublin's "planners" have given us, boldly stand, Stephen's Green. A gem, an oasis, that the culturally, spatially illiterate, "planners" and RPA have not yet destroyed. Little surprise then, that we get articles like the above to soften us up for the chain saws, the slash and burn culture junkies that will not be happy until everything good about Dublin and its architectural has been pulverised. Joyce said "crossing Stephen's Green, my Green". I agree, Stephen's Green is "our" Green and "THEY" must, had better, keep their chain saws, con saws, con tricks, jack hammers and jack asses PPP's and greedy hands away from it.

Ireland's engineering classes and architects seem to think that building a Metro consists of beginning at the most culturally significant place, destroy that, then take aim for the O'Connell monument remove that, then, proceed in the direction of the most culturally dyslexic politicians clinic ever to grace the stage of Irish politics. Blah, blah we know the routine! To even think about destroying St. Stephen's Green is moving beyond the unimaginable. We have already let you guys destroy the economy. Must we listen to these fatuous lectures telling us, the ordinary people, (we are not their unfortunate students) that our mature beautiful trees need to be clear felled and our park destroyed, so that the plebs may be enabled to conjure the fact that there is a beautiful oasis of flowers beyond.? Ridiculous article this one! No, our money is not going on this rot.
5 days ago, 12:03:23 PM
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[This user is an administrator] tony
This idea of destroying Stephens Green which is a living eco-system of greenery with its bird life in the centre of the city with a Stalinesque space of concrete as was done in Eyre Square and O'Connell St is unacceptable. The metro will cost billions and will destroy a large area of the city, including O'Connell St on which millions has already been spent. Brain dead is a charitable description for this stuff. With cheap alternatives available such as existing bus lanes and under-utilised tunnel it is madness. The education system, which will give a much higher rate of return to the resources involved, should be a much higher priority than a vanity project like a metro to the airport.
5 days ago, 2:14:11 PM
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[This user is an administrator] Malleus Malleficarum
Dear God in Heaven!

I had to read the above twice before I figured out what Dr O Grada could possibly mean by St. Stephen's Green being "sequestered". He means that the Green is too green and has too many weed-trees that, apparently block the view of people outside the park from looking in.

May the Good Lord preserve us from urban planners smitten by a vision of clear open spaces, clean lines and all the rest of it.We've seen it before, Dr O Grada and its not a pretty sight.

The screen can equally be seen as a refuge and a guarantee of visual clarity from within the Green, A bit like the bars on the gate of the convent: they're not there to keep the nuns in, but to keep the world out.

If I hear any more of this nonsense about 'opening up' the Green I might well feel tempted to rip up the nearest ash plant to put a bit o' smacht and manners on that O Grada fella.
5 days ago, 2:58:43 PM
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[This user is an administrator] Enda Murphy
Times change and trees die. These works provide a great opportunity to create new uses of the Green (eg, outdoor cafe, rollerstake areas, etc)
5 days ago, 6:22:27 PM
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[This user is an administrator] John Farrelly
Shame that this lecturer in planning does not even know his trees. They are not "dull Laurels" as he states but a mix of Plane, Sycamore and Chestnut trees, needed for bio diversity, oxygen and screening.
A planner in the wrong place, with little real education it seems is indeed a weed.
5 days ago, 6:57:49 PM
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[This user is an administrator] Myles Duffy
This is an attractive and practical suggestion. Boston Common, located in the centre of the Massachusetts capital, is home to an underground train station, servicing the first underground train system in the US and an underground car cark, neither of which unduly distress its innate elegance - because the design, access and landscape architecture is thoughful, apt and unintrusive.

It is slightly older than the Phoenix Park and regarded as one of the oldest public park in the US. Boston Common is one of a necklace of public parks that circle Boston and, at 50 acres, it is over twice the size of St Stephen's Green.

The absence of a perimeter barrier ensures that The State House and the adjacent three and four-story terraced, red-brick and brown-brick, classical buildings on Beacon Hill are linked to the city in the manner advocated by the author.

The transportation infrastructure at the Common makes its amenities available to all Bostonians, not just those living in the vicinity and tourists. The Common lends itself to a myriad of activities - open-air opera in summertime; ice skating in winter and New Year's Eve celebrations when the snow can be thick underfoot. It's historical significance and how it relates to other aspects of Boston is capturered and well narrated to visitors.

Yes, let's open our minds to Green's potential and put the creative and professional talent that abounds in this country to work for the benefit of all of us!
5 days ago, 7:16:51 PM
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[This user is an administrator] Philip Doyle
Theres no suggestion to remove all perimeter trees. This is an attempt to excuse the destruction of those trees that get in the way of the crazy metro scheme.

Stephen's Green is an inappropriate terminus for a north-bound metro line that will be used by small numbers of people.

The destruction and disruption that will be inflicted on the Green in the process is entirely unjustified from the point of view of finance, planning, transport policy.
5 days ago, 9:51:36 PM
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[This user is an administrator] Frank Jameson
I have to agree that there has been some thoughtless tree planting in recent decades. The eastern "House of Lords" facade of the Old Parliament (Bank of Ireland) could be seen from from College Street just a few years back but has now been obliterated by a screen of trees. As for poor Henry Grattan on College Green, he is now smothered by injudicious greenery.

Paddy Murray
He's a planner. Look around. Enough said.
5 days ago, 11:21:57 PM
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[This user is an administrator] Dave Hickey
My God, where to start.....? "There is anecdotal evidence that the Green has become so sequestered that it is putting off some visitors from going into it all". Are we now reduced to relying on 'anecdotal evidence' to justify the defilement of one of Dublin's most prized amenities? As a frequent visitor to St. Stephen's Green this statement reads like a piece of pure fiction. On a fine day, the Green is invariably awash with people and is generally well populated whatever the weather.
Let's not kid ourselves. The proposed development is going to fundamentally alter the nature of the Green and probably not for the better. Is it really necessary? Yes, according to the same people of who have landed us our current state. Well if they say so it must be alright then......
4 days ago, 1:50:34 AM
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[This user is an administrator] Robert Browne
There was to be a tall building (higher than Liberty Hall) built on the Hendron site at the top of Domnick Street in brutal proximity to and overshadowing the adjacent Victorian houses. This "will announce the campus in Grangegorman." was the logic being used to promote the project. The 37 Storey "landmark, iconic" tower in the middle of Ballsbridge "would be the most elegant solution" ..... Jim Barrett former city architect, talking to Henning Larsen about the sky scraper then being planned for Ballsbridge so that a developer might be able to get his money back. St Stephen's Green will make a handy terminus. Problem is, some Dubliners love their park and as we all know, it will have to be sequestered and destroyed. This is the sort of mindless stuff the chattering classes go in with in city hall when they are discussing their needs and planning their city. There is less and less reasons for tourists to visit unfortunately with these plans "more" actually means a good deal "less".

@ Frank Jameson Not to worry thoughtless tree planting can be sorted out with a Husqvarna in minutes by Dublin City Council. it seems the mistakes take a hundred or more years to manifest themselves but can be sequestered and sorted in 8 minutes. Sure the fire wood from the Green can be used in some wood pellet burning stove another problem solved. Those pesky horses around the Green , owners have been warned that they are taking up too many car spaces and cutting down on badly needed corpo revenue generating spaces.
4 days ago, 4:40:40 AM
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[This user is an administrator] James Fitzgerald
Laughable - "There is anecdotal evidence that the Green has become so sequestered that it is putting off some visitors from going into it at all." I love anecdotal evidence, it supports any argument. What a ridiculous article.
4 days ago, 5:32:01 PM
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[This user is an administrator] tony
Myles Duffy. So it is Boston common is it? That's the reason we must get rid of 'injudicious greenery' in the Green [Frank Jameson]. When they desecrated O'Connell Street it was the Champs Elysee. By the looks of things it must have been Stalinist eastern Europe they had in mind when they desecrated Eyre Square in Galway. Why do we have to ape others? Green is the colour most associated with this island for God's sake.
4 days ago, 6:30:58 PM
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[This user is an administrator] David Walker
If you want to improve Stephen's Green then how about a public toilet for a start. I agree with Metro in principal but don't think that the Green is the right place for the terminal. Usually something like this would sited in a part of the city that requires regeneration where it would be cheaper to build and cause minimal disruption, basically the northside of the city and then link the two tram lines to it. I suppose this decision has already been taken and some big party donor is in line for the work. Articles like this one are put out in advance to give the impression that there public debate about these decisions.
While on the subject of town planing how about an article on the destruction of Greystone's Habour
3 days ago, 12:42:32 AM
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[This user is an administrator] Des Canine
Can we not build anything in this town without some great pointless "national conversation"? Just get on with it.

It is unfortunate the writer demonstrated some ignorance of the nature of the trees (very beautiful trees - the one type of plant that never meets my idea of "weed"). Maybe he was being a bit provocative in response to the tiresome campaign by Frank McDonald against the underground?

But Frank is against any underground - the St Stephens Green "controversy" is just the latest prop in his agit.
3 days ago, 8:40:55 PM
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[This user is an administrator] DesJay
I first heard of a plan to make St. Stephen's Green a transport hub in the babblings of a FF minister--Dempsey, maybe. He spluttered that if objectors saw Grand Central Terminal in New York (not Grand Central Station--that's a post office!) they'd view his proposal favourably. I don't doubt he saw the grandour of Grand Central, with its great high ceilings and marble surfaces. I don't doubt he saw the Oyster Bar. But I do doubt he saw much of the business side of Grand Central--where the wheels meet the rails--noisy, dusty, dark. Another version of hell to which people are subjected everyday.

So much for nature. So much for history. So much for the courage of the rebels of 1916. For this they died? To add the ha'pence to the pence and fumble in the greasy till?

Ireland has so comprehensively lost its soul that I wonder if it it can ever recover it. And I sometimes wonder if it ever had a soul.
3 days ago, 8:55:03 PM
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[This user is an administrator] Liam Carson
The image with this article shows what a monstrous idea this is. And the notion that the Green is not being used is ridiculous. Anecdotal evidence, my arse. What makes the Green attractive is the
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby PVC King » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:10 pm

missarchi wrote:[B]

GOD NEVER closes one window but he opens another one. It may be that the Railway Procurement Agency is now about to repeat this trick. A very exciting prospect has been opened up by the proposed placing of the Dart Underground and Metro North shared station below ground at St Stephen’s Green in Dublin, requiring major changes to the landscaping.

Anybody coming from the direction of Grafton Street can hardly fail to notice the strange appearance of the Green. The prospect is one of continuous high greenery, concealing the marvellous public space that has afforded Dubliners such a great amenity for three centuries.

There is anecdotal evidence that the Green has become so sequestered that it is putting off some visitors from going into it at all. This is entirely unacceptable and we now have a remedy for it. We can restore it to its original role and make it once again a truly European space.



This is the most ridiculous opinion piece I've seen for a while; to turn Stephens Green into an open common and destroy a planned Victorian Garden park to end up with another St Patricks Park would be a tragedy.

Does this lecturer specialise in 'Rural Planning' and have a hobby as a closet bungalow designer?

Some wayfinding signage to St Patricks Park might be a good idea though.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby missarchi » Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:48 pm

many of the issues are repeating themselves but here they are...
Anything interesting?
Attachments

[The extension pdf has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby ac1976 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:35 pm

I got a letter today from Pleanala informing me of preliminary meeting (Sept 24th) prior to a substantive Oral Hearing for Dart Underground.
Let the circus begin....
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby PVC King » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:36 pm

Can I take it your submission is on the location of the Inchicore Works Station location?

Please keep us posted on day to day developments
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby missarchi » Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:30 am

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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby wearnicehats » Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:00 pm

I might be worng but isn't it Noel O'Callaghan? Good old IT


Developer challenges Dart Underground plan

A BORD Pleanála hearing into plans for the €2 billion Dart Underground project opened in Tallaght yesterday – and was challenged by a legal team acting for companies belonging to Dublin hotelier and property developer Owen O’Callaghan.

Iarnród Éireann is seeking permission from the planning board for a 7.6km tunnel travelling in an southerly arc from Docklands Station through Spencer Dock, to Pearse Station and on to St Stephen’s Green. From there it travels west to Christ Church, Heuston Station and to a new surface Dart station at Inchicore. Along the route the line is designed to connect with Iarnród Éireann’s northern, Kildare and Wexford rail lines. Iarnród Éireann claims the tunnel would increase capacity in the capital’s suburban services from 33 million passenger journeys per year to more than 100 million.

However, as the oral hearing got under way, senior counsel for Mr O’Callaghan’s companies, Colm Allen, said there was a significant legal question about the “jurisdiction of the board to do what it is about to do”.

Mr Allen said the Dart Underground project had the potential to “sterilise” his client’s property for as long as 10 years. He also said “if necessary” he would be prepared to “go elsewhere” to establish his point about the jurisdiction of the board.

Mr Allen said he was attempting to be helpful to the inquiry by flagging this matter now, offering written submissions on the point for consideration by the board. This could, he said, avoid the possibility of a more difficult decision at a later date.

However, Tom Rabbitte, senior inspector with the planning board, said he intended to go ahead with the hearing in the standard format for such oral hearings, but would make a note of Mr Allen’s comments.

Joe Costello TD, Senator Pascal Donohoe, Councillor Kevin Humphreys and East Wall resident Angela Broderick also asked to be heard at the opening of the inquiry as they objected to the venue for the hearing. Ms Broderick said the Tallaght venue represented a difficult and expensive destination for many residents who wished to attend the hearing.

Mr Rabbitte said the board had been unable to secure a suitable venue in the city centre for the expected duration of the hearing, possibly due to the time of year.

In his submission to the hearing, Iarnród Éireann chief executive Dick Fearn said that despite government efforts to achieve sustainable transport in Dublin, the reality was that “trip making has continued to be by private cars”.

Congestion was an “inevitable consequence”, he said.

Michael Reidy, manager of strategic and business planning with Iarnród Éireann, said a number of people had suggested using the existing Phoenix Park tunnel linking Heuston and Connolly stations across the north city, instead of the new project.

But he said a report by consultants Ove Arup had found in 2000 that this was “the least optimal solution” to provide additional capacity into and through the city centre. He said it would add to capacity constraints on the Maynooth line and would isolate Heuston as diverted Kildare services would effectively bypass Heuston to get to the tunnel. The hearing continues today
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby PVC King » Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:59 am

senior counsel for Mr O’Callaghan’s companies


I salute Mr O'Callaghan for avoiding NAMA.

Mr Allen said the Dart Underground project had the potential to “sterilise” his client’s property for as long as 10 years


If he is talking about his hotel then I can't agree with that; the property was was sterilised by the accidental fire that destroyed Merrion Hall; it is a relatively new building that would should the project completed have significantly better public transport access. I would be very surprised if conservationists would accept higher density on that site; any location on Fenian St would have limited development potential in any event; given the proximity to Merrion Sq.


A BORD Pleanála hearing into plans for the €2 billion Dart Underground project opened in Tallaght yesterday


This is indeed a very strange location for the hearings; it should be moved to one of any of the NAMA hotels in D1/D2, no shortage to choose from.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby neutral » Wed Nov 24, 2010 7:58 pm

It took just over 2 years for Metro North to get planning permission from ABP so if the government are saying the IC will not start before 2014 it may not be too much of a delay.At least the planning is still going on the Dart project as its too important to cancel!!!!

If the present government or indeed the next government are serious about getting more people to use public transport in Dublin both projects need to be completed to form a more user friendly joined up transport system,its time to look at the long term view on these projects and lets not forget about the future Luas lines too.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby PVC King » Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:07 pm

The money isn't there; this is Fianna Fucked issuing their election manifesto; it is embarrassing having a nationality connection to this government; I've had more barbed banter about being Irish in the last week than I have had in the previous 5 years.

The IC will be built, main thing is cracking on with the oral hearing and getting consent and doing the CPO's at the market floor
PVC King
 

Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby cagey » Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:14 am

PVC King wrote:
The IC will be built, main thing is cracking on with the oral hearing and getting consent and doing the CPO's at the market floor

Luckily the IC will not be built for some time if ever. An IC is needed but not the IC in the Rail Order please.

I understood this forum to be about Architecture. How about discussing that awful Rail Order produced by CIE/IE.
Who has a solution to Pearce Underground (PU) being built under Erne Street ... approx 1Km underground walk to mainline Pearce????
They are building PU in the wrong place ... and worse still it is the main Interchange station for the majority of our current DART users. There is no way ABP should pass this abomination. CIE/IE need to be sent back to the drawing board ... no hurry ... they have 4 years to get it right.

As regards the adverse effects on Rail Users I prefer to answer PVC King's propaganda in a Rail Users forum.
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby PVC King » Sun Dec 05, 2010 11:13 am

Who has a solution to Pearce Underground (PU) being built under Erne Street ... approx 1Km underground walk to mainline Pearce????

I suggest you go to http://maps.google.com/ and type in Erne Street Dublin 2 Ireland, it is 150m from the eastern end of the platform and 300m from the front door of Pearse Station ; if the average person walks at 4 miles per hous that is 6,400m per hour; the walk would be somewhere between 2 mins and 3 mins and 3 30 seconds. Take comparable London interchanges

1. Bond Street - Central to Jubilee c300m
2. Bank - Central to Northern c600m
3. Green Park - Picadilly to Jubilee c800m

Do not get me started on Paris which can be a complete nightmare......
PVC King
 

Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby missarchi » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:26 am

paris was a pain in the...
but that was before GPS...
Now there is no excuse...

Should all bankers be paid the minimum wage? or is the financial services union the "biggest"

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ire ... 46631.html
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Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby Peter Fitz » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:06 pm

I understood this forum to be about Architecture. How about discussing that awful Rail Order produced by CIE/IE.
Who has a solution to Pearce Underground (PU) being built under Erne Street ... approx 1Km underground walk to mainline Pearce????


If you're going to spread bollox propaganda with your entirely warped perspective on distance & time, do it elsewhere.
Peter Fitz
 

Re: Interconnector aka DART underground

Postby cagey » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:46 am

PVC King wrote:
Who has a solution to Pearce Underground (PU) being built under Erne Street ... approx 1Km underground walk to mainline Pearce????

I suggest you go to http://maps.google.com/ and type in Erne Street Dublin 2 Ireland, it is 150m from the eastern end of the platform and 300m from the front door of Pearse Station ; if the average person walks at 4 miles per hous that is 6,400m per hour; the walk would be somewhere between 2 mins and 3 mins and 3 30 seconds. .


I make the mainline Station 240m long and another 200m east from there + 10m above ground level +40m deep for the DART Underground line which runs North South over Erne Street.
440m + 60m uphill and we still have not allowed for the route not being in a straight line or if I arrive at either end of the DART carriages (174m long).
Thanks a lot, but I would rather walk that 1Km equivalent on the flat.

Factor in I am carrying a computer and a brief case and the dxxx station is jam packed, and i would have to do all that because the DART Underground cannot get it right.

If any part of you has a bit of Architecture in you, and you do not work for CIE/IE then you too would question the design. It is a stupid design.
Last edited by cagey on Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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