Metro North

Re: Metro North

Postby Tayto » Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:11 pm

It's History time alright with-a-capital-H.
The drip-feed of news is like watching a slow train crash.
Monday...oops- I mean Sunday- will be interesting to say the least.
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Re: Metro North

Postby wearnicehats » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:02 pm

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Re: Metro North

Postby KerryBog2 » Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:58 pm

What next?

Emm, I said this 20 months ago.
Kb

KerryBog2 wrote:............................................................When the IMF arrives Metro North will be one of the first things to be binned, along with guaranteed index-linked pensions and guaranteed Public Service jobs for life. Looking at the tripe emanating from the Government and worse still from the Opposition, the date the IMF will arrive is not far off. Sadly, I’m beginning to look forward to it, because I’m sick and tired of the head in the sand status of the fools involved in running this country......................
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Re: Metro North

Postby wearnicehats » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:06 pm

KerryBog2 wrote:What next?

Emm, I said this 20 months ago.
Kb


do you have a crystal ball that throws up mad bicycle schemes? methinks you didn't read the link to DCC's latest hairbrained scheme
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Re: Metro North

Postby PVC King » Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:50 pm

In 2002 when Dublin hosted the European Alley Cat race (bicycle courier race) one bloke turned up from a Northern German City requesting a cargo race, no-one else turned up so he won; if there is a market for this it is up to the private sector to create it not local ratepayers who are under enough pressure. Does anyone know the name of the Jewellers in todays FT which closed after 49 years of trading?

Things are shaping up for the Donegal South West Bi-election; the UK treasury loans are going to get Sinn Fein elected on the first count. Time to apply to Brussels if FF expect to have as many as 10 seats after the spring election.

There is no way George Osborne would have floated this as a kite; the 1922 committee really do not like giving Europe anything.
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Re: Metro North

Postby Cathal Dunne » Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:49 pm



It's a good idea which would help reduce even further any disruption due to take place in the centre of town as we get this rail line built. It's also good as it reduces the need for maintenance of the pedestrianised streets around Town. It seems like Council workers are forever repaving Grafton St. as vans and small lorries wear down the surface.
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Re: Metro North

Postby PVC King » Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:55 pm

Are you really saying Metro North will go ahead?

On a technical question; which are more resistant to stone chippings, vehicle tyres or bicycle tyres? Add the weight of cargo to the bicycle tyres and they would shred if the Luas lines ever get linked. You need pristine surfaces for them to work; but back to the substantive point how can the council justify a subsidy for an unproven mode when funds are non-existant?
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:43 pm

Easy the costs are 7 million or so every 7 years for a "do nothing" approach.

West mor land st has not even been designed yet.
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Re: Metro North

Postby PVC King » Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:54 pm

Are you and the proponents of the cargo bike scheme both smoking something?
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Re: Metro North

Postby KerryBog2 » Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:46 pm

wearnicehats wrote:do you have a crystal ball that throws up mad bicycle schemes? methinks you didn't read the link to DCC's latest hairbrained scheme


I did read it and it made as much sense as missarchi's posts.:)

Being a believer in Sergeant Fottrell and his Mollycule Theory, I am anti-bicycle.
I continue to ponder the possibility of our present woes being a side effect of the treasonable fusion of man and bicycle (most of dem bikes is made in France) as a result of bumpy Dublin streets. For that reason I also am agin Metro North, and agin the Greens getting back in as they are proponents of two wheeled transport.:p
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Re: Metro North

Postby PVC King » Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:29 am

Seeing as he was so popular the last time....


By Quentin Fottrell Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
DUBLIN (Dow Jones)--Ireland is dragging its feet on a European Union bailout to secure the best terms for a deal and to safeguard its 12.5% corporation tax, observers say, but the country's embattled government also wants to limit political damage at home before a looming by-election on Nov. 25 and a deeply unpopular budget due Dec. 7.

The longer Dublin holds out, the more the bond market will intensify pressure on other troubled euro-zone nations like Portugal and Spain. That could potentially mean more bargaining power for Ireland, which will this month publish a budget plan targeting EUR15 billion in savings over four years.

Finance Minister Brian Lenihan said Wednesday that "intensive engagement" will begin on Thursday with the EU partners to discuss the best ways to support the Irish banking system, but he has thus far refused to admit that an aid package for the country's beleaguered banks is unavoidable.

Officials from the European Commission, the European Central Bank and IMF will travel to Dublin to examine the country's finances and troubled banking system. The measures being considered may include the activation of the European Financial Stability Facility, the EUR440 billion emergency loan program established to help euro-zone countries refinance their debts.

"We will work with our European partners to solve these difficulties and we're determined to do that and we will look at what is the best way to provide any necessary support to address market risks in the banks," Lenihan told state broadcaster RTE Radio. He added, "If action requires to be taken on a Europe-wide basis, it will be taken." He said they will come to "very rapid conclusions on this matter" but said there was no deadline for a decision.

Lenihan described the corporation tax rate as "safe."

But according to Stratfor, a global intelligence firm, "Dublin is wary of possible EU-mandated tax-restructuring conditions in exchange for aid in its banking crisis."

There is also the question of national pride, said Chris Curtin, professor and head of the School of Political Science and Sociology at the National University of Ireland, Galway, who explained that a bailout would always be hard for the Fianna Fail-led government to stomach.

"The loss of sovereignty is the ultimate form of humiliation for any political party, particularly Fianna Fail, which calls itself the republican party and has been in existence since the creation of the state," he said. "That's why the talk is now about the bailing out of the banks rather than the state, though I'm not so sure you can make a distinction anymore between the two."

Ireland's reputation has taken a battering in international markets amid doubts about its banking system and ability to bring its budget deficit under control. Record-high borrowing costs have forced the government to cancel the two remaining bond auctions planned this year, though Ireland is fully funded until the middle of next year.

Alan McQuaid, chief economist at Bloxham Stockbrokers, said investors now believe it is only a matter of time before Ireland accepts a bailout.

McQuaid said there were worries about accepting such a deal. "The real fear is that in exchange for aid, Europe would demand some unpalatable measures in return," singling out the corporation tax, which he called "the cornerstone of industrial/economic policy."

Market speculation in recent days has focused on a potential package of up to EUR100 billion to be targeted at the banks, which are rapidly losing the confidence of depositors as well as investors. Bank of Ireland PLC (IRE) said last Friday there were EUR10 billion in outflows of rating-sensitive deposits in its capital-market division in the third quarter.

The Central Bank of Ireland also said last week that Irish banks increased their borrowing from the ECB to EUR130 billion on Oct. 29 from EUR119.1 billion on Sept. 24.

So why the protestations? Prime Minister Brian Cowen has insisted the government will complete its five-year term ending in 2012, though many expect an election next year. But the forthcoming budget is proving increasingly unpalatable to some members of his own party.

The government looks increasingly likely to lose its majority before long, but it must push through with EUR6 billion in cuts for 2011 within weeks as part of a plan to reduce the budget deficit to 3% of gross domestic product by 2014 from around 12% of GDP this year--or 32% of GDP including the cost of the state's own bank bailout that could top EUR50 billion.

Cowen was circumspect about a bailout Tuesday, telling parliament he will work with his European counterparts "to normalize market conditions," but he reiterated that Ireland hasn't applied for financial assistance and refused to be drawn on whether his government would apply.

He must face an untimely by-election in Donegal South West to be held on Nov. 25, only days before the unveiling of what will certainly be a brutal 2011 budget.

The Fianna Fail-held seat there was left vacant by Pat Gallagher 18 months ago, and recent national opinion polls suggest it will be snapped up by the opposition. The polls put Fianna Fail in third place behind Fine Gael and Labour.

However, NUI-Galway's Curtin doesn't underestimate Fianna Fail's grass-roots support in the northwest of Ireland, even though the party registered just 18% support in one recent poll. "I wouldn't bet on Fianna Fail losing it," he said.

The resignation of Fianna Fail lawmaker Jim McDaid earlier this month left the government with the support of 79 Fianna Fail, Green Party and independent lawmakers in crucial parliamentary votes. The voting intentions of another seven are more difficult to predict because of disquiet over the government's upcoming budget cuts, while the opposition has the support of 75 members of parliament.

None of this bodes well for Lenihan's forthcoming budget: Fine Gael and Labour have thrown their support behind the overall 2014 budget-deficit target, but differ on how to get there.

Stratfor also suggests there are international political issues at stake, including resentment in France and Germany over the country's rejection of two recent EU treaties.

Ireland also has the lowest corporate tax rates in Western Europe, "roughly one-third of what they are in France and Germany, in order to attract (primarily American) investment," Stratfor said. "It's this policy that is not only responsible for the rise of the Celtic Tiger, but what the Germans and French blame for the overall disinterest of extra-European investors in mainland Europe."

Officials in Berlin have always seen Ireland's EU membership as "a little odd," Stratfor added, "and the Germans are attempting to use the Irish banking crisis to remove a thorn from their side."

-By Quentin Fottrell, Dow Jones Newswires; +353-1-676-2189; quentin.fottrell@dowjones.com

(END) Dow Jones Newswires

November 18, 2010 02:14 ET (07:14 GMT)



Corporation tax is about the only issue with cross party support
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Re: Metro North

Postby damcw » Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:23 pm

At least the 1 thing we can say about Irish politcians is that they're straightfaced and sneaky enough to hold out for decent bailout conditions. We need them to treat the EU/IMF like they've been treating us.
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Re: Metro North

Postby PVC King » Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:48 pm

Brian Dobson giving Brian Lenihan a good kicking

You said it Dan

At what point in time will they realise Governments are elected to

1. Regulate banks
2. Control development
3. Allow the people to know what is going on
4. Protect the economy from unwanted outside interference on tax policy


This Government presided over a free for all over the past 12.5 years in every area of the economy and wider society. They now want to blame their biggest donors i.e. banks and developers. By joining alliances on the loony right in the case of Fianna Failed and the flakey greens the country has no alliances in Europe with either the EPP or Socialist groupings who control parliment and could have been really helpful in getting Merckel back into her box at this crucial time.

You can blame Sean Fitzpatrick, Fingleton and Liam Carroll for this or you can blame the FF/PD complete deregulation ideology that they implemented in every facet of Government.

The only solution is to agree a back stop bailout until such time as a Government with the aliances in Europe comes to power and a deal on terms that will leave the country with the capacity repay the loans can be agreed.

Nobody in Ireland, ECB, EU, IMF or financial markets believes a word Brian Lenihan, Brian Cowen or Dick Roche says anymore. I now understand why there are Coup D'Etats in Africa.
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Re: Metro North

Postby Cathal Dunne » Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:25 am

PVC King wrote:Are you really saying Metro North will go ahead?

On a technical question; which are more resistant to stone chippings, vehicle tyres or bicycle tyres? Add the weight of cargo to the bicycle tyres and they would shred if the Luas lines ever get linked. You need pristine surfaces for them to work; but back to the substantive point how can the council justify a subsidy for an unproven mode when funds are non-existant?


Geneva and Paris already operate similar schemes and Geneva has a tram system criss-crossing its city so obviously tram tracks aren't a problem there. The cost would probably be borne by the city centre businesses who would benefit from such a scheme.
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Re: Metro North

Postby PVC King » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:41 am

As a regular visit to Central Paris I've not noticed these there.

If 10 or so of the bikes were owned by companies such as DHL/UPS/IEC I would agree that they may have some relevance in places like Henry St &
Grafton St; however the idea of thiws replacing white van man is utterly hilarious; the only use they would have is getting deliveries into pedestrianised areas and for literally the last 400m of the supply chain to point of sale.

Why should a business that organises its deliveries around the road closure hours subsidise those that don't? DCC should pick up the phone to DHL and offer them dedicated parking bays for them to be standing by 22 hours a day; thus ends the subsidy.

More metro north thinking; someone went on holiday saw something new and shiny and said to hell with it being relevant to Dublin lets create our own little market and the tax payer can bail it out when it fails.
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Re: Metro North

Postby The Denouncer » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:46 am

I come into this forum to read about the Metro North, and all I read is peoples opinions on politics. Join http://www.politics.ie otherwise shut the fuck up.
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Re: Metro North

Postby PVC King » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:00 am

How dare you; the cost of funding this proposed white elephant was tracked on this thread for at least 18 months. That the Metro North philosphy of build it and they will come extended across the entire economy is co-incidental and without the backing of this particular government this project would never have seen so much public money wasted in planning a €3bn Luas line. Shocking..............
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Re: Metro North

Postby tommyt » Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:03 pm

PVC King wrote:As a regular visit to Central Paris I've not noticed these there.

If 10 or so of the bikes were owned by companies such as DHL/UPS/IEC I would agree that they may have some relevance in places like Henry St &
Grafton St; however the idea of thiws replacing white van man is utterly hilarious; the only use they would have is getting deliveries into pedestrianised areas and for literally the last 400m of the supply chain to point of sale.

Why should a business that organises its deliveries around the road closure hours subsidise those that don't? DCC should pick up the phone to DHL and offer them dedicated parking bays for them to be standing by 22 hours a day; thus ends the subsidy.

More metro north thinking; someone went on holiday saw something new and shiny and said to hell with it being relevant to Dublin lets create our own little market and the tax payer can bail it out when it fails.


Supply chain margins are extremely tight and is the most cut throat business you could imagine. Just floating the idea of a cargo bike is silly. It would require the stick of a complete ban on white van man in particular areas as I can't think of a carrot juicy enough to entice either global or local dispatch companies to voluntarily hand over their cargo to some geezer on a dik van dyke who can't guarantee a timely delivery.
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Re: Metro North

Postby wearnicehats » Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:56 pm

The Denouncer wrote:I come into this forum to read about the Metro North, and all I read is peoples opinions on politics. Join http://www.politics.ie otherwise shut the fuck up.


IMF - here's your bail-out

Lenihan - geez lads thanks for dat but is it ok if we just call it loan?

IMF - aye go on - we'll leave a sack in the back bedroom - just pick it up when you need it. be quick though - we just had a collect call from Madrid

Lenihan - any chance of throwing a billion or so for an aul tram?

IMF - ummmmm tell me again - how did you end up here?
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Re: Metro North

Postby Cathal Dunne » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:31 am

PVC King wrote:As a regular visit to Central Paris I've not noticed these there.

If 10 or so of the bikes were owned by companies such as DHL/UPS/IEC I would agree that they may have some relevance in places like Henry St &
Grafton St; however the idea of thiws replacing white van man is utterly hilarious; the only use they would have is getting deliveries into pedestrianised areas and for literally the last 400m of the supply chain to point of sale.

Why should a business that organises its deliveries around the road closure hours subsidise those that don't? DCC should pick up the phone to DHL and offer them dedicated parking bays for them to be standing by 22 hours a day; thus ends the subsidy.


Well the scheme hasn't been properly thought through yet. It's due to be worked out over the next 18 months in which time the snags can be ironed out.

More metro north thinking; someone went on holiday saw something new and shiny and said to hell with it being relevant to Dublin lets create our own little market and the tax payer can bail it out when it fails.


That's a complete mis-representation of what Metro North is. Metro North, or variants thereof, have been a vital part of any new public transport network in Dublin for well over a decade. This has been as a result of years of consultation, review and study by the best-qualified transport experts across a number of different areas. A train line similar to MN would probably have been built if the Dublin Rapid Transit Scheme of 1975 had been adopted, rather than being watered down by the anti-rail lobby. A rail line to the airport is also very relevant to Dublin as it currently is one of only 2 of the 20 busiest airports in Europe without rail access. Before you say "they can take the bus at Dublin", these places all have bus connections too. There's also very little chance of MN having to be bailed out as it has passed every cost-benefit analysis ever conducted on it. Even in the RPA's rather bearish models in which barely any population and economic growth occurs over the next decade, MN passed with a 1.55:1 ratio.
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Re: Metro North

Postby PVC King » Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:34 am

Well the scheme hasn't been properly thought through yet. It's due to be worked out over the next 18 months in which time the snags can be ironed out


It would be easy to work this out 3 phonecalls to the logitics industry players; they don't want it; if the logistics proviers don't want it why waste taxpayer money on it; retail is on the ropes why exacerbate their plight with a vanity project jacking busniess rates further? Thanks to mismanagement of the economy we have much more important fish to fry; road closures from Merrion St to the Phoenix Park for starters may see the Country having some chance of getting out of the disaster we are in.
Even in the RPA's rather bearish models in which barely any population and economic growth occurs over the next decade, MN passed with a 1.55:1 ratio.


The same cost benefit analysis that predicted 36.5m passengers as a base case without Metro Waste as against the 35m with Metro Waste carried out when the Celtic Bubble was in full inflation mode; sorry but the RPA have even less credibility than the Lenihan Bros Government.......

Dublin as it currently is one of only 2 of the 20 busiest airports in Europe without rail access.
The same airport where its biggest airline calls for a new terminal to be mothballed; never heard of an airline calling for a terminal to be closed before it is unprecedented they are usually screaming for new capacity; when you see the largest customer calling for cuts to keep underlying costs down the future certainly isn't orange.
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Re: Metro North

Postby rumpelstiltskin » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:17 pm

Cathal Dunne wrote:Well the scheme hasn't been properly thought through yet. It's due to be worked out over the next 18 months in which time the snags can be ironed out.

That's a complete mis-representation of what Metro North is. Metro North, or variants thereof, have been a vital part of any new public transport network in Dublin for well over a decade. This has been as a result of years of consultation, review and study by the best-qualified transport experts across a number of different areas. A train line similar to MN would probably have been built if the Dublin Rapid Transit Scheme of 1975 had been adopted, rather than being watered down by the anti-rail lobby. A rail line to the airport is also very relevant to Dublin as it currently is one of only 2 of the 20 busiest airports in Europe without rail access. Before you say "they can take the bus at Dublin", these places all have bus connections too. There's also very little chance of MN having to be bailed out as it has passed every cost-benefit analysis ever conducted on it. Even in the RPA's rather bearish models in which barely any population and economic growth occurs over the next decade, MN passed with a 1.55:1 ratio.


Will the moderator just do everyone a favour and close this thread? HELLO, HELLO!!! WAKEY WAKEY. The IMF is the new government! It's the death of the republic! There will be no more extravagant construction projects! The only rail projects in this state for the next 20 years will be people pulling up the rail lines for scrap metal.
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Re: Metro North

Postby PVC King » Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:02 pm

Three things need to happen for your version to play out:

1. The Government must agree a total surrender to Brussells and Washington
2. The Government stays in office and even more capital flies
3. The Government continues embarrasments such as the existence of the RPA which Mark Gleeson of Train users Ireland always dubbed the Really Pointless Agency; if it wasn't then it certainly is apt now.

Alternatively Cowen surrenders not to the IMF and ECB but to the people that elected his predecessor

1. The people who chased yield in the form of Anglo Irish, AIB and INBS bonds share the pain; these were not risk free assets and those buying them knew they were a leveraged play on the Commercial Property Market. The role of the Landesbanks in every European property bubble for the last 20 years including Germany in 1992/93 needs to be addressed. Anglo was simply the Irish branch of the landesbanken family, the Government here were just too dumb to understand the inherent risks in that model.


2. The ECB continue to support the remaining banks by extending the 1.5% finance rates until the deficit is reduced to 3% of GDP; how adding 350bps to €120bn of debt is going to help reduce the deficit defies believe it means the real pain next year will be €11bn CP. When banks hike mortgages rates by 350bps the 5% mortgage arrears figure will be a pleasant memory; there will be complete meltdown.


3. A new government with a mandate from the electorate needs to be elected to protect existing public transport and unravel all the relativity pay deals done over the past decade.

Metro North how did we elect a government that could claim even a week ago this would happen
PVC King
 

Re: Metro North

Postby neutral » Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:59 pm

I totally agree we need a new government but regardless of who gets in there's a lot of pain ahead and capital spending is only going one way and I really fear for Metro North and the IC of being dropped.I know your not a supporter of MN but I'm taking the long term view for these projects and others no road/rail.airport terminal are constructed and fully used on day 1.
We might be missing out on a great chance to finally have an alternative solution to the motor car as getting around Dublin and I've tried the existing transport services but have had to return back to the car I'm afraid.

Hopefully things will finally come to a head shortly as too how deep we're in the manure heap!!
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Re: Metro North

Postby PVC King » Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:43 am

I really fear for Metro North and the IC of being dropped.I know your not a supporter of MN but I'm taking the long term view for these projects and others no road/rail.airport terminal are constructed and fully used on day 1.


I also fear for Interconnector which will if not built leave the City little better off than it was in 1985 in terms of rail. I agree there needs to be a connection to the airport and that conecting Swords and Ballymun is desirable; sadly following a Kerviel scalebet on the property market the credibility of delivering a line predicated on future line densification is very very difficult to maintain. It is why suggesting a phase 1 of Luas and a wait and see approach to loading growth for the section from old Ballymun to the CC is the only credible option; how long even linking the two existing Luas lines takes at this stage is anyones guess. Even that must rank behind the IC which is the key single piece of infrastructure for the state. I would ask how did schemes such as

1. Waterford Dual Carriageway
2. Limerick Dual Carriageway
3. Tuam Motorway

All get ranked above uniting the Capital's rail system.

I would hope the opposition would issue a statement reserving the right to cancel any contract signed by this Government with a value exceeding €1m to be effective from opening of play Monday morning.

We might be missing out on a great chance to finally have an alternative solution to the motor car as getting around Dublin and I've tried the existing transport services but have had to return back to the car I'm afraid.


With most supporters of MN there is clearly a desire to see a sustainable transport outcome; that is commendible as surely the biggest problem in past years has been the underinvestment in rail and the abject failure to integrate buses into the system as is done in most systems.

Hopefully things will finally come to a head shortly as too how deep we're in the manure heap!!



TEL AVIV (MarketWatch) – The International Monetary Fund, European Union and European Central Bank are preparing a 120-billion-euro ($164 billion) bailout of Ireland, requiring the country to raise taxes and nationalize more banks, the Sunday Times of London reported.


The plan, which would exceed the 110-billion-euro bailout created for Greece, could be unveiled as early as Monday morning, the paper reported.

Ireland’s cabinet is meeting in an emergency session this weekend to complete a four-year budget, the paper reported. The budget is also set for release this week, the Sunday Times reported.

A property tax of 500 euros a house plus more public-sector cuts are expected to be part of the plan, the paper said.

A team that is figuring out how to restructure Ireland’s banks is also developing a proposal for a wealth tax on the country’s richest citizens, the Sunday Times reported.

France and Germany are pressuring Ireland to raise its 12.5% corporate-tax rate, the paper reported.

And the EU is expected to guarantee bonds issued by Irish banks and to extend that guarantee across Europe to prevent speculators from going after Portugal or Spain, the Sunday Times reported. Read the MarketWatch piece on policy makers’ debt-market concerns about Spain and Portugal.


We are beyond in it at this stage there is only one card left, let the lenders share the pain; if Sarko thinks for a second that he can protect reckless lenders such as SocGen and BNP, et al and remove the only reason why this damp, cold, remote rock has any high value employment he is being as disingenous as the senior management of SocGen who denied knowledge of the scale of Kerviel's position. The longer Sarko keeps this hilarious position up the longer the sceptre of Lenihan Bros hangs over European markets; don't worry once the IMF deal is agreed the sooner the oppoisition will remove the current government.
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