Part II Graduate Architect- Help

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Part II Graduate Architect- Help

Postby Shane-R » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:57 pm

I graduated in 2008 with an honours B. Arch degree. I haven't been able to secure a job in Architecture in Ireland since. I have 2 years working experience in an architect's office. I've since completed a course in ArchiCAD and AutoCAD 2009/10 and have done a few one off planning applications, design and tender packages.
I don't want to emigrate. I have tried to get entry level work in other areas but have been told in interviews that I'm over-qualified in a particular field and it seems almost impossible to get out of this rut of unemployment. I am considering doing a post-grad in a field I can get a job in.

I'm just looking for some advice on what to do to either secure a job in architecture or a related field in Ireland or advice on what transferrable skills I could apply to another field.

Any help appreciated.
Thanks.
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Re: Part II Graduate Architect- Help

Postby Tayto » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:13 pm

Shane-R wrote:..........I don't want to emigrate. I have tried to get entry level work in other areas but have been told in interviews that I'm over-qualified in a particular field and it seems almost impossible to get out of this rut of unemployment. I am considering doing a post-grad in a field I can get a job in.

I'm just looking for some advice on what to do to either secure a job in architecture or a related field in Ireland or advice on what transferrable skills I could apply to another field.

Any help appreciated.
Thanks.


1. Reconsider your attitude towards emigration if you want to secure a job in Architecture in Ireland. I presume you don't have a mortgage or a family to support. Imagine if you did.
Work abroad, gain experience, treat it as an adventure and show a bit of ambition. You can return in a few years by which time the situation should/may/might/hopefully would have improved.

2. Go back to college and train as an IT architect. Get whatever degree it takes to call yourself an IT architect. Have you not seen the job search results for "Architects"? And the related salaries?

3. Engineers Ireland http://www.engineersireland.ie/ have a Jobseekers network and trained professional staff to assist jobseekers.
To their eternal credit they provide a similar level of assistance to architects as they do to their own members in this regard. They will advise on providers of internships in other fields but you have to do self assessment and provide a list of businesses who they can approach on your behalf.
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Re: Part II Graduate Architect- Help

Postby pico » Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:05 am

Decide what you really want to do.
You have invested a lot of time in architecture, with 5 years study and 2 years employment. If you really want to continue that career, go abroad for a couple of years and get some valuable experience to bring back to Ireland in a few years time.
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Re: Part II Graduate Architect- Help

Postby Tayto » Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:35 am

Shane-R wrote:...........I don't want to emigrate. ............


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/1108/1224282865400.html?via=mr

Think again, read it and weep.
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Re: Part II Graduate Architect- Help

Postby onq » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:57 am

Shane-R wrote:I graduated in 2008 with an honours B. Arch degree. I haven't been able to secure a job in Architecture in Ireland since. I have 2 years working experience in an architect's office. I've since completed a course in ArchiCAD and AutoCAD 2009/10 and have done a few one off planning applications, design and tender packages.
I don't want to emigrate. I have tried to get entry level work in other areas but have been told in interviews that I'm over-qualified in a particular field and it seems almost impossible to get out of this rut of unemployment. I am considering doing a post-grad in a field I can get a job in.

I'm just looking for some advice on what to do to either secure a job in architecture or a related field in Ireland or advice on what transferrable skills I could apply to another field.

Any help appreciated.
Thanks.


Hi Shane-R

You seem predisposed to remaining in Ireland.

The future is bleak right now, disregarding Tayto's posting of Morgan Kelly's article, which I'll get around to answering in due course.
If you're one of those who went through in straight years with one year out you're around 23 with parents still around and a social whirl to enjoy - but no funds.
My best advice is to seek to collaborate with forward looking practices - even on a basic minimum wage basis - in order to gain enough experience to obtain your part II's here.
Practices you could target are those with work in foreign countries need design imput not just CAD people - or smaller practices here so long they have some mid-range work on - be discerning.

Otherwise you might have to contemplate leaving this jurisdiction to travel somewhere that you can obtain Part III experience and if necessary sit the state professional exams there.
In terms of predominantly english-speaking locations, the places I have looked at are
  • Canada
  • America
  • Australia
  • New Zealand
  • Britain
Britain seems to be as badly off as we are in terms of jobs and looking at a long road to recovery.
America seems to be having a jobless recovery, which is of little use to you.
There are different professional practice requirements in different states.
Canada, Australia and New Zealand seem to be better bets.

This time last year Australia was running a preferred skills list programme seeking certain highly skilled professionals - check this.
To work in these countries for a while you need the appropriate Visas and permits but of course you usually need to have a job beforehand.
Now might be a time to get a working visa or a travel visa to scope out jobs and see what's on offer before applying for a position and ratifying your right to stay and work there.

My assumptions may be incorrect and you may be further along your timeline.
44 years of age is the barrier to settling in Australia, or Canada and possibly America.
Not so New Zealand which IIRC can accept immigrants until Age 55 or so and has a significant ex-pat population, mainly English and Irish.

You are free to travel to any EU Country, but because of the Registration requirements of the Building Control Act 2007, you cannot use the title "Architect".
In addition, there may be language problems, as well as planning, contractual and legal minefields to learn to traverse in terms of of operating at Part III level.
If you are willing to address these, and willing to continue to wor kas a part II archtiect, they you may gain enough experience to become qualified to work there.

Be warned though that Irish graduates who have obtained their Part III experience and professional practice accredition abroad are not automatically entitled to be Registered here.
There are severla threads on this forum you may be interested in reading:
http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=5379 (main one)
http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=8262

My best advice to you is first read their website and then ring up the RIAI and ask to discuss the matter with someone appropriate.
I don't know what the level of response will be if the trickle of people like your goodself becomes a deluge, but the Admissions Director is Margaret Hynds O'Flanagan.
Margaret has listened to all my arguments in favour of Part II Registration and how the European Directives should be implemented, and has been unfailingly polite and informative.
You may noit like what she has ot say about the provisions of the Act, but she acts for the Competent Authority and remember - the RIAI didn't cause this crisis we're all trying to get through.

Best of luck and you might let this forum know how you get on.

ONQ.
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Re: Part II Graduate Architect- Help

Postby onq » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:24 am



Tie the debt up on a ball.
Stop paying interest on it - pay a fixed sum only.
Pay off the capital amount over thirty or forty years if necessary.
Christ threw the money lenders out of the Temple for a reason, remember.

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Re: Part II Graduate Architect- Help

Postby Tayto » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:25 pm

Shane-R wrote:................or advice on what transferrable skills I could apply to another field.

Any help appreciated.
Thanks.


If you have skills and interest in the discussion of ideas rather than problem-solving and if you have no interest whatsoever in leadership or inspiration and value above all else self-preservation, self-aggrandisment, the art of pretence and responsiblity avoidance, then you should seriously consider embarking upon a career in the highly-paid, comfortable, secure and esteemed academic and/or news generation industries. eg. Economics lecturer or business/culture/finance journalist in any of the nation's portals of truth and inspiration. Publish doom-laden I-told-you-sos, hold your hands in the air like an innocent messenger and collect the salary while the young leave in droves. It's easy when you know how. And the Irish Times & Indo, The NUI, RTE etc. know how.

onq wrote:Tie the debt up on a ball.
Stop paying interest on it - pay a fixed sum only.
Pay off the capital amount over thirty or forty years if necessary.
Christ threw the money lenders out of the Temple for a reason, remember.

ONQ.


Irish/euro peripheral debt serves a useful purpose in creating value-anxiety around the euro which in turn makes export prices more competitive. There is a therefore a vested interest in maintaining this situation which a highly paid academic expert like Kelly really should have articulated in his carefully rationed (annual?) publication. For the amount of money he's on (I'll guess 150-200k?), it really isn''t good enough.
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Re: Part II Graduate Architect- Help

Postby Shane-R » Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:04 pm

Thanks for the replies and advice, particularly ONQ. It's greatly appreciated. Plenty of food for thought there and it will be taken on board.
All the best,
Shane.
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Re: Part II Graduate Architect- Help

Postby onq » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:56 pm



Now, a slightly fuller response.

I don't think the article is right - like most economists, Morgan Kelly misses vital points.
Morgan Kelly forgets the scenario that started all this - the crooked Banks having no money.

We could not let the lifeblood of the economy simply stop - we had to face the facts of life and support the disastrously, incompetently run banks because to fail to do so would have resulted in far worse structural damage all at once.

With a budget overspend in the tens of billions we could not shaft the bondholders, whose incestuous relationship with each other and our European funders meant that we would be biting the hand that would be asked to lend us money.

The solution is to agree to get our overspend under control and to start thinking about unwinding interest added loans and debts and rewinding them into a fixed added sum debt plus the capital amount borrowed.

I said it at the start of my posting history here and I'll say it again - Christ threw the money lenders from the temple for a reason - paying interest results in crippling debt.

We need certainty on the amount, an extended timeframe in which to pay it, and reduced payments per month/year to allow us to do so.

This applies to all debts that cannot be repaid.
It is simply not good enough to let people default and cause problems for others who are managing to repay their debt.

And if someone says "this goes against all the banking rules" I say F*** them! This is the only workable solution!

(well, the only one I can think of anyway)

The banks and the finance houses - either national not international - have no moral ground to stand on, and a bankrupt Ireland leaving the EU is the alternative.
No doubt this would bring a tear of joy to some people in the finance houses in in America and Germany, but only until the first car bomb went off.

Oh, and yes, this screws the Croke Park Agreement too - at this stage the "social partners" can kiss my butt - they are a rope around our necks.

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Re: Part II Graduate Architect- Help

Postby onq » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:00 pm

Shane-R wrote:Thanks for the replies and advice, particularly ONQ. It's greatly appreciated. Plenty of food for thought there and it will be taken on board.
All the best,
Shane.


You're very welcome Shane R.
Happy to put my year or so of research at the disposal of this forum.
Its the least I can do for a generation betrayed by our government and banks and the financiers in Europe.

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