Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby GrahamH » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:20 pm

Aha thanks Morlan. I was wondering why the signs on the platforms of the Luas line to Point Village are different to the existing lines. The new arrangement of equally sized text for English and Irish is jarring, difficult to read, and visually unpleasant. The former arrangement was much clearer.

Indeed, the smaller text gave an elegance to the Gaeilge, which now looks hamfisted and arrogant, and makes you wish it wasn't there at all.
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Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby missarchi » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:41 pm

Buckmister fuller roofs!
I would prefer micaceous oxide paint to that white paint.
Glass will always get smashed...
White tiles/walls will always look dirty.
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Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby Morlan » Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:29 am

GrahamH wrote:The new arrangement of equally sized text for English and Irish is jarring, difficult to read, and visually unpleasant. The former arrangement was much clearer.

Indeed, the smaller text gave an elegance to the Gaeilge, which now looks hamfisted and arrogant, and makes you wish it wasn't there at all.


It is indeed a load of arse, but now Gaeilge has to be larger or the same size and as prominent as "ze English". This does not apply to traffic signage.

Theregulations are here.

Personally, I can read the new Luas signage just fine. But I would prefer that both lingos were differentiated somehow.

Being Morlan, I took out some crayons (sorry).

Image
Current signage

Image
English in italics

Image
Irish in less visible font, which goes against the regulations, so not possible.

Image
Irish in bold, English in normal.

I think that is pretty much the choice in relation to new signage. :o

As mentioned, the regulations can be downloaded here.

If my examples do not follow the regulations, I welcome your ideas. :)
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Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby missarchi » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:52 pm

who got da font?
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Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby Cathal Dunne » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:08 am

Given that Metro and Luas will both be light-rail systems and the plan is for both to be interoperable, I would imagine that Metro stations will have a graphical continuity with Luas stations, ie, they'll look pretty much the same.
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Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby Morlan » Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:43 am

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0913/1224278759275.html

Council opposes overhead cables on cross-city Luas line

DUBLIN CITY Council is opposing a plan to use overhead power cables on the proposed cross-city Luas line because of their detrimental effect on the city’s “exceptional” and “exquisite” architecture.

The Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) wants to use the same overhead power supply system on the new line, which will link the Sandyford and Tallaght lines before continuing on to Broombridge in Cabra, as it does on the existing lines.

However, the council said the proposal was not acceptable in the city centre. The route the Luas will take – from St Stephen’s Green, down Dawson Street, through College Green, across O’Connell Bridge, and up O’Connell Street to Parnell Square – passes the city’s most significant public buildings, it said.

College Green in particular consisted of a “progression of exceptional classical buildings”, including the “exquisite” portico of the Bank of Ireland, which should not be compromised by cables and wires. Comparisons made by the RPA in relation to the wiring used by early 20th century trams in the city centre were “not an argument of weight” in the context of best-practice building conservation, the council said.

The RPA should provide an alternative wire-free system, the council argued. It said it was in favour of the overall project but it urged An Bord Pleanála to make it a condition of the railway order that St Stephen’s Green to Parnell Square be a wire-free zone.

The council’s position is supported by the Dublin Civic Trust, which submitted that the overhead lines would have a damaging impact on “large swathes of the ceremonial core of the city”. The Irish Georgian Society is also against the use of overhead lines.

The RPA June applied to An Bord Pleanála last for a railway order to construct the new line. A date for a public hearing on the project is expected to be announced soon by the planning board.

The RPA said it investigated a wire-free option that has been used on trams in Bordeaux in France since 2003. The system uses a third rail embedded in the road between the tram tracks which becomes energised as it hits connectors underneath the tram, but switches off when the tram passes.

However, the RPA said the technology was still new and there were concerns over its robustness, reliability and safety; and it was “substantially” more expensive.

A second bone of contention for the council is that the RPA’s plans to run the Luas along the central plaza of O’Connell Street. The council had undertaken a major improvement scheme of the street in recent years and the widened median was the central element of the design. The proposed alignment would “detrimentally affect the integrity of the newly completed scheme,” the council said, and should not be permitted.


;)
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Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby missarchi » Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:03 am

you have scored 1 point out of 1000 :p

I still don't like the border of 1 & 2
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Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby Morlan » Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:17 pm

missarchi wrote:who got da font?


Yes, your sign is very nice and Parisian. Unfortunately, it is in breach of the regulations ;)
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Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby PVC King » Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:20 pm

Morlan wrote:http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0913/1224278759275.html

Council opposes overhead cables on cross-city Luas line

DUBLIN CITY Council is opposing a plan to use overhead power cables on the proposed cross-city Luas line because of their detrimental effect on the city’s “exceptional” and “exquisite” architecture.

The Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) wants to use the same overhead power supply system on the new line, which will link the Sandyford and Tallaght lines before continuing on to Broombridge in Cabra, as it does on the existing lines.

However, the council said the proposal was not acceptable in the city centre. The route the Luas will take – from St Stephen’s Green, down Dawson Street, through College Green, across O’Connell Bridge, and up O’Connell Street to Parnell Square – passes the city’s most significant public buildings, it said.

College Green in particular consisted of a “progression of exceptional classical buildings”, including the “exquisite” portico of the Bank of Ireland, which should not be compromised by cables and wires. Comparisons made by the RPA in relation to the wiring used by early 20th century trams in the city centre were “not an argument of weight” in the context of best-practice building conservation, the council said.

The RPA should provide an alternative wire-free system, the council argued. It said it was in favour of the overall project but it urged An Bord Pleanála to make it a condition of the railway order that St Stephen’s Green to Parnell Square be a wire-free zone.

The council’s position is supported by the Dublin Civic Trust, which submitted that the overhead lines would have a damaging impact on “large swathes of the ceremonial core of the city”. The Irish Georgian Society is also against the use of overhead lines.

The RPA June applied to An Bord Pleanála last for a railway order to construct the new line. A date for a public hearing on the project is expected to be announced soon by the planning board.

The RPA said it investigated a wire-free option that has been used on trams in Bordeaux in France since 2003. The system uses a third rail embedded in the road between the tram tracks which becomes energised as it hits connectors underneath the tram, but switches off when the tram passes.

However, the RPA said the technology was still new and there were concerns over its robustness, reliability and safety; and it was “substantially” more expensive.

A second bone of contention for the council is that the RPA’s plans to run the Luas along the central plaza of O’Connell Street. The council had undertaken a major improvement scheme of the street in recent years and the widened median was the central element of the design. The proposed alignment would “detrimentally affect the integrity of the newly completed scheme,” the council said, and should not be permitted.


The delivery of on street mass transit on the Country's main street is no small undertaking; it is a provision that will have many knock on implications to the built environment not least of which are important civic buildings on the Wide Streets Commission's central spine from Parnell Sq to College Green.

The DCC observation appears to focus on two areas; firstly the third rail which seems has more or less universal support apart from the RPA.

Secondly DCC seem to be of the opinion that it will undermine the O'Connell St refit done in 2003/04; on this I disagree for two reasons firstly should the third rail system be introduced the damage could be limited to one lane of traffic; secondly and more importantly should the dominence of buses and cars not be tackled on this one key civic space.

I would suggest that should Luas be extended North that many of the routes currently using O'Connell Street would no longer need to do so; I would also suggest that Capel Street is underused in terms of bus usage.

There is a golden opportunity for Luas to transform O'Connell St by using a third rail and utilising the median as platforms with the doors opening inwards; all that would be required to keep O'Connell St moving would be a reduction in bus traffic and to ensure that bus stops were restricted to areas where they could be recessed into the footpath allowing a dedicated Luas lane, and a bus/cycle lane from the existing two lanes.

As the OCS fit out would be c10 years old by the time the route were delivered maybe some updating of what is a very good core design may be no bad thing.
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Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby missarchi » Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:37 pm

Morlan wrote:Yes, your sign is very nice and Parisian. Unfortunately, it is in breach of the regulations ;)


I think we need some symbolism or heavy metals.
If they say metro what is the irish equivelent under ground?
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Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby Morlan » Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:37 am

missarchi wrote:I think we need some symbolism or heavy metals.
If they say metro what is the irish equivelent under ground?


Faoi thalamh (fwee halav) or just Meitreo
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Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby missarchi » Wed Sep 15, 2010 11:49 pm

This is architecture... with archs

Image

who if left of field?
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Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby Morlan » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:09 pm

An Bord Pleanála gives Metro North go ahead

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1028/metro.html

The multi-billion-euro Metro North project in Dublin has been given the green light by An Bord Pleanála.

The rail link from St Stephen's Green to Swords now faces final approval from the Government on a cost benefit analysis.

The infrastructure project is described as the biggest in the history of the State and the ruling from An Bord Pleanála runs to 1,700 pages.

The board has given permission for an underground track from St Stephen's Green to north of Ballymun where it will cross the M50 on a flyover.

It will go underground at Dublin Airport stopping at a centralised transport hub before going overground again to Swords with some of the line on stilts due to the undulating landscape.

The board has eliminated two stops at Belinstown and Seatown and ordered the relocation of a depot and park-and-ride facility.

It wants the park-and-ride facility and depot moved from Belinstown, which is north of Swords, because of the risk of flooding.

The overall 18km line has therefore been shortened by 2.3km.

The final plan for the underground section at Ballymun and the stop at O'Connell Street also need to be finalised.

But it is the proposed 'big dig' in the city centre, involving moving statues like the O'Connell monument and closing off part of St Stephen's Green, that is causing concern to some businesses.

Enabling works on underground utility lines is due to start next spring, while the construction itself is scheduled to last from 2012 to 2016.

The overall estimated cost has varied from €5bn at the height of the boom to €3bn now with reduced construction costs.

Supporters point out that because it will be a public-private partnership the initial cost will be taken by the private operator. The Rail Procurement Agency will have to make a final decision between two consortiums - Celtic Metro Group and Metro Express - in coming months.

A number of economic studies have been carried out by the RPA with the latest showing that for every €1 spent on the Metro there will be €2 back in terms of overall economic benefit.

Labour leader Eamon Gilmore has said the Metro North project should be postponed while Transport Minister Noel Dempsey has said it will go ahead subject to a final cost analysis.

The RPA says the line will be able to carry 20,000 passengers an hour with 10km underground providing a journey time of 20 minutes from Dublin Airport to the city centre.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgwYT_4Pr9k
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Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby Morlan » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:17 pm

New render of Westmorland

Image
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Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby hutton » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:16 pm

Morlan wrote:New render of Westmorland

Image


I'm sure it'll feel very safe after dark, in an area already drastically under lit :rolleyes:

Btw I see no overhead cables for Luas BX - so do we now have two RPAs; Luas RPA who advocate overhead cables, and Metro RPA who don't?
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Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby Morlan » Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:15 pm

The render reflects the approved location of the Westmorland entrance to the enormous O'Connell Bridge station.

Image

Image
Westmorland Street access

As for the lack of cables, I doubt we'll be seeing trams running through here until 2020 or later. Hopefully we'll have battery powered trams or third rail by then!
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Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby Morlan » Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:47 pm

Is it really necessary to have two traffic lanes and a tram lane down Westmorland?

Let's pedestrianise the fucking lot! Dublin Bus can use the tram lane. Deliveries and other access can share with pedestrians.

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Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby cgcsb » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:12 pm

Westmoreland street is useful as a traffic artery, pedestrianisation is not required at present, a widening of the western footpath is long overdue though. College green will have to be a bus only street from 5am to 12.30am in order to allow for proper segregation of luas services.
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Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby urbanisto » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:12 pm

hutton wrote:Btw I see no overhead cables for Luas BX - so do we now have two RPAs; Luas RPA who advocate overhead cables, and Metro RPA who don't?


Dont you know overhead cables would clutter the streetscape!
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Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby urbanisto » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:13 pm

Oh and a wall of yellow buses....
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Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby missarchi » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:34 pm

Road use or not the paving should be continued with some "design"
I would also like a little stream and some grassy knolls might not look out of place...
Oh and the bumps...
I'm not a fan of glass and steel

still needs gov approval...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1028/breaking44.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1028/breaking3.html
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Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby Alek Smart » Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:50 pm

I would suggest that should Luas be extended North that many of the routes currently using O'Connell Street would no longer need to do so; I would also suggest that Capel Street is underused in terms of bus usage.


Very true PVC KIng,and DCC took very recent action to ensure that Public Transport useage of Capel Street would be well nigh impossible given that parking bays and assorted other impediments now abound.

But the principle of alternatives to OCS as the SOLE means of Publicly Crossing the Liffey are sound.

I have also for a long time past suggested Jervis Street as offering a great set of Bus Laning possibilities,given that it allows just as easy access to the Henry/Mary Street shopping souks,as well as being adjacent to the Dublin Bus Strand Street Terminal site,now sadly moribund...?

Any takers......
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Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby PVC King » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:16 pm

Very true PVC KIng,and DCC took very recent action to ensure that Public Transport useage of Capel Street would be well nigh impossible given that parking bays and assorted other impediments now abound


Retail has changed; paint is now sold from retail parks at the edge of cities; parking in Capel Street has no other rationale other than DIY enthusiasts and tradesmen loading paint pots. Capel Street needs to be handed over to DB as the main Southbound route for 16-22 etc to free
up O'Connnell St.

I have also for a long time past suggested Jervis Street as offering a great set of Bus Laning possibilities,given that it allows just as easy access to the Henry/Mary Street shopping souks,as well as being adjacent to the Dublin Bus Strand Street Terminal site,now sadly moribund


I agree that this route could take a lot of strain currently borne by OCS and Aston Quay/Bachelors Walk.

The prize could be a pedestrianised / Luas only Central Bank to Parnell Square
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Re: Luas, Metro and DART - Drawings and Photomontages

Postby Morlan » Wed Nov 24, 2010 6:59 pm

DoT press release on the 4-year plan

http://www.transport.ie/pressRelease.aspx?Id=258

Is Metro North going ahead?

Yes. Metro North is the major component of the public transport allocation. The planning and procurement processes for Metro North are proceeding. The estimated expenditure on Metro North in the period 2011-2014 is now slightly less than previously estimated because of the An Bord Pleanala requirement to relocate the depot. This will result in a short delay of a number of months in the overall timescale for the project.

Notwithstanding this, enabling works for Metro North will commence in 2011 and the procurement process will continue. This is expected to result in the selection of a preferred bidder in 2012. The final business case for the project will then be submitted to Government for approval to proceed to construction.


Is DART Underground going ahead?

It will now not be possible to deliver the tunnel element of the programme in the immediate period. However, some of the re-signalling and associated works, which have capacity benefits in and of themselves, will proceed over the next four years and this will prepare the network for the delivery of the underground tunnel once financial resources permit.

An Bord Pleanala has commenced the oral hearing for DART Underground. It is likely that the railway order could be made by the end of 2011. The DART Underground project is an extensive programme involving the construction of an underground tunnel, to be delivered by public private partnership, and the delivery of various other resignalling and associated works to facilitate the integration of the Northern and Kildare Lines via the tunnel.

What other public transport projects will go ahead in this period?


We will continue to spend on vital public transport programmes such as railway safety, traffic management, accessibility and real time passenger information across the country. In Dublin the Luas extension to Citywest will be complete in 2011 and a new public transport bridge at Marlborough Street will commence construction. Planning will continue on a range of other public transport projects including Luas BXD, the cross-city link, Luas extensions to Lucan and Bray, and Metro West. Funding is available to commence construction on the Navan Line in 2013. Money will also be provided for the purchase of new buses for PSO services.
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