Metro North

Re: Metro North

Postby murrmurr » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:48 pm

PVC King wrote:I agree on Dart Underground but not on Metro North; the cost is unclear despite a failed tender process leaving only 1 consortium left; that doesn't imply any saving it implies a charge what they like price on the part of the last consortium standing; the RPA will not even give a +/- 10% figure.

Trips on Aircoach from the airport to Leeson St are about 25 mins these days; traffic is no longer the same problem since the bus gate and port tunnel combined with a slower economy.

There is a savage series of cuts en route and it really is a case of either Dart Underground which is a mode of transport that must be segregated or Luas underground a mode that has been proven to segregate effectively at a fraction of the cost.


Aircoach can only accomodate a certain amount of people, what do they charge, 7 euro into town? Supposing we try to bid for a large sporting event in the future?

A fast underground route to city centre is what we need, 20 min run and can accomodate 1000's per hour.
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Re: Metro North

Postby Frank Taylor » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:49 pm

PVC King wrote:Incorrect - only one consortium is left - no competitive concerns.
Celtic Metro Group is arranging finance with other banks now that Barclays Private Equity has left.
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2010/09/12/story51639.asp

I'd love to see the figures on this; 40% of the morning paek ridership was reckoned to come from park and ride;
Do you have a source for this?

The Aircoach currently takes 25 minutes to make it from Dublin 4 to the airport; i.e. there is no time saving.
Aircoach schedules 55 minutes to reach Dublin 4 from the airport and 40 minutes for the return journey. I imagine it performs better off peak in practice but I expect they have to give themselves this schedule to allow for traffic jams. The buses are unevenly spaced due to traffic. The capacity is constrained by the speed , the number of people on a coach and the maximum frequency possible.
http://aircoach.ie/table.routes.ballsbridge.php

All premature until Brian has terms laid out to him in Washington today
This may be a problem. International investors may not like us building a metro when we're going through a dip. I remember a lot of criticism of Athens when they were building a metro before the olympics. Then again, the project has the endorsement of the EIB. I imagine that the budget will be
1bn PPP (repaid over 30 years from completion)
.5bn EIB loan (repaid over 30 years)
1bn Exchequer Capital spend (a lot of it front-loaded for Airport, Mater and other stations.

Looking forward to this being signed off.
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Re: Metro North

Postby PVC King » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:16 pm

Frank Taylor wrote: Celtic Metro Group is arranging finance with other banks now that Barclays Private Equity has left.
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2010/09/12/story51639.asp


Barclays and HSBC are gone; AIB is nationalised; who does this leave? Given that Irish banks are shut out of inter bank markets and governamnet bond rates are north of 6% this isn't going to happen.

Frank Taylor wrote: Do you have a source for this?

The RPA demand analysis for morning peak.


Frank Taylor wrote: Aircoach schedules 55 minutes to reach Dublin 4 from the airport and 40 minutes for the return journey. I imagine it performs better off peak in practice but I expect they have to give themselves this schedule to allow for traffic jams. The buses are unevenly spaced due to traffic. The capacity is constrained by the speed , the number of people on a coach and the maximum frequency possible.
http://aircoach.ie/table.routes.ballsbridge.php


The published timetable is padded a bit like my flight this morning which took 35 mins but was advertised at 1 hour 20 mins; why you ask? To protect themselves from travel insurance claims by underwriters. In any event I was talking about Upper Leeson Street D4 versus a full lap of D4


Frank Taylor wrote: This may be a problem. International investors may not like us building a metro when we're going through a dip. I remember a lot of criticism of Athens when they were building a metro before the olympics. Then again, the project has the endorsement of the EIB. I imagine that the budget will be
1bn PPP (repaid over 30 years from completion)
.5bn EIB loan (repaid over 30 years)
1bn Exchequer Capital spend (a lot of it front-loaded for Airport, Mater and other stations.


Better scenario - Interconnector cost €2.5bn - EIB loan €1bn

Frank Taylor wrote: Looking forward to this being signed off.


Looking forward to the unelected Biffo being kicked out before he gets a chance to do yet more damage to what was once a proud well funded trend setting nation; the greens are going to regret getting into bed with SoDs; look how long it has taken Labour to recover their Spring tide; about as long as it takes to get the right to vote.

One indepedent bank and one bancassurer left in private hands... The Irish addiction to concrete needs shock treatment!!!
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Re: Metro North

Postby PVC King » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:38 pm

murrmurr wrote:Supposing we try to bid for a large sporting event in the future?



National aquatic centre is exactly what happened
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Re: Metro North

Postby wearnicehats » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:07 am

murrmurr wrote:Aircoach can only accomodate a certain amount of people, what do they charge, 7 euro into town? Supposing we try to bid for a large sporting event in the future?

A fast underground route to city centre is what we need, 20 min run and can accomodate 1000's per hour.


all we'd need is to find the sport looking for just the 2 stadia - both of which only have 3 sides and one of which took about 20 years to redevelop and still ended up with a capacity just over half that of any renowned international stadium within a 500 mile radius, within a country so broke that Iceland are laughing at us.............then yeah let's build a TRAIN.

Trouble with you is the trouble with me,
Got two good eyes but we still don't see.
Come round the bend, you know it's the end,
The fireman screams and the engine just gleams...

Driving that train, high on cocaine,
Casey Jones you better watch your speed.
Trouble ahead, trouble behind,
And you know that notion just crossed my mind
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:16 am

Millon dollar competition for a station...
After decades of failed attempts to restore Flinders St station, it has fallen into neglect under the crush of 100,000 daily commuters.

Get with the times?

Two railway employees shared a 500-pound prize in 1899 for designing the existing French Renaissance-style building."

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/m-flinders-st-station-prize-to-restore-station-if-opposition-win-power/story-e6frf7kx-1225937893125
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8104769/1m-prize-for-flinders-st-revamp

Fibs? Or laymen
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:35 am

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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:48 pm

It's quite amusing to hear economists talking about excess capacity why don't they ride a bike to work. As for well built the question remains should economists be allowed to wear suites and stay in 5 star hotels?
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Re: Metro North

Postby corkblow-in » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:37 pm

Reading posts by missarchi is much like trying to do a cryptic crossword.....:)
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Wed Oct 27, 2010 3:23 am

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Re: Metro North

Postby PVC King » Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:30 am

If there is an unwillingness to update the cost-benefit studies, then the projects need to be officially suspended, and expenditure on consultants and planning postponed; otherwise taxpayers’ money to the tune of millions of euro is being wasted.”



Hammer nail head

Macquarie shakes up infrastructure team
Australian group cuts jobs, fund life, and fees
Bumpy road forces Macquarie to switch focus
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:10 pm

and singa crying poor! not the asl the asx
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Re: Metro North

Postby green_jesus » Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:41 pm

When is this decision actually due?

I thought it was to be October at the very latest. Now October is almost over. Did I miss something?

:confused:
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Re: Metro North

Postby Springer » Wed Oct 27, 2010 7:33 pm

It is being put on the long finger apparently but not cancelled to placate the Greens.
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:52 pm

Yeah it's interesting alright sometimes updates can take months now it seems instant...
Dependent on or in?
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:56 am

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/1028/1224282143901.html

What's amusing is none of these two offer alternative mining methods for the green.
There will be damage from the dart too double s?
They don't attack past policys/funding...
Luas can only be so useful over long distances and has serious limits for multi modal changes...

Another spread on sat?
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Re: Metro North

Postby PVC King » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:03 am

Double Take with Frank McDonald and Ciarán Cuffe

It’s time to cut our cloth on these mega transport schemes and the Dart Underground offers far better value, writes FRANK McDONALD



I wonder will the list of tender parties actively pursuing this be named or is that a secret as well?
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Re: Metro North

Postby wearnicehats » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:10 am

green_jesus wrote:When is this decision actually due?

I thought it was to be October at the very latest. Now October is almost over. Did I miss something?

:confused:


approved
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:31 am

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Re: Metro North

Postby The Denouncer » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:05 pm

Superb news. Living in Swords for the last 8 years I can only say the transport is RUBBISH, having to drive to Donabate to get a train or sitting on a bus for an hour and a half. Its about time the Northside got something. The Southside has the Luas and QBC, as well as the DART of course. Now I'll have to listen to the ANTI-EVERYTHING brigade who are helping to spiral this country into depression, and the WHINGERS and the BEGRUDGERS who are up their own ARSES. We HAVE to build this and generate jobs and generate growth, and give something to the Northside.
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Re: Metro North

Postby wearnicehats » Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:49 pm



probably enough in there to stall this ridiculous waste of money for a good while yet
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Re: Metro North

Postby Cathal Dunne » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:25 pm

The Denouncer wrote:Superb news. Living in Swords for the last 8 years I can only say the transport is RUBBISH, having to drive to Donabate to get a train or sitting on a bus for an hour and a half. Its about time the Northside got something. The Southside has the Luas and QBC, as well as the DART of course. Now I'll have to listen to the ANTI-EVERYTHING brigade who are helping to spiral this country into depression, and the WHINGERS and the BEGRUDGERS who are up their own ARSES. We HAVE to build this and generate jobs and generate growth, and give something to the Northside.


Exactly, Denouncer. It's great news to hear that they can go ahead with enabling works now due to start in March while they sort out the issues ABP have with specific parts of the route. It's quite irritating that it takes ABP 2 years to give this Railway Order and yet still demands changes when granted. Our planning system would be much more efficient if ABP was involved from the start so that when they give permission, it's a straight lift-off from there.
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Re: Metro North

Postby missarchi » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:01 pm

I think it would take at least 1 year just to absorb what is in the proposal.
It will be interesting to see the DCC RPA on going structural/design changes...
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Re: Metro North

Postby forbeser » Fri Oct 29, 2010 8:32 am

As a Brit who has visited Dublin lots in the past, I can't wait for this to be built. I really got used to the LUAS, and having ventured outside the central area quite a bit (Ballymun etc) can see the benefit this would bring to depressed areas, quite apart from bringing the braying suits in from the airport (and taking them back there...)
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Re: Metro North

Postby wearnicehats » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:28 am

Cathal Dunne wrote:Exactly, Denouncer. It's great news to hear that they can go ahead with enabling works now due to start in March while they sort out the issues ABP have with specific parts of the route..


Given that ABFP said "it was too early to say whether a new oral hearing would be required" I wouldn't be holding your breath
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