Limerick Transport

Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Dan Sullivan » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:26 pm

The meeting on the motion re: the Bus lanes is this afternoon at 4pm. Due to a change in plans I will be heading along. will update when I can.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby cheebah » Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:26 pm

Dan Sullivan wrote:The meeting on the motion re: the Bus lanes is this afternoon at 4pm. Due to a change in plans I will be heading along. will update when I can.


Looked like it was going to be taken off plans and then sudden adjournment for two weeks. Labour split- the Mcloughlins in favour along with John Gilligan ind and Maurice Quinlivan SF. Everyone else spoke against the bus lane/green route plan but adjournment before vote
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:25 pm

At least the Mayor Cllr. Maria Byrne can devote the next two weeks figuring out why Limerick city ranks 49th in anti-litter league. :rolleyes:

The heritage body, An Taisce, who conduct the surveys said: "The really poor sites in Limerick city were not just heavily littered but many of them were neglected or derelict."

Dan will you have a serious word with this woman about her phobia with big buses! ;) Does she really want to put her own business interests on O’Connell Avenue before that of the whole city centre.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby zulutango » Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:54 am

it seems that Kennedy has stirred up this whole issue with residents in Ballinacurra and O'Connell Avenue for his own political gain. Ditto Jim Long. And Maria Byrne has to go along with it to be seen to be standing by her constituents, even though I suspect that she has no quibble with the bus lane. Fine Gael appear to be in disarray, with such division in their ranks.

What will happen in two weeks time? A compromise solution?
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby zulutango » Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:59 am

cheebah wrote:Looked like it was going to be taken off plans and then sudden adjournment for two weeks. Labour split- the Mcloughlins in favour along with John Gilligan ind and Maurice Quinlivan SF. Everyone else spoke against the bus lane/green route plan but adjournment before vote


Micheal Hourigan (Fine Gael) and Kevin Kiely (Fine Gael) also spoke in favour of the proposed green route.

The adjournment suited most councillors, because they had got to air their views against the bus lane and were seen to be standing by the residents. In reality, most of them would be in favour of it, I reckon.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:22 pm

CologneMike wrote:Dan will you have a serious word with this woman about her phobia with big buses!


I got my councillors mixed up, :o it was Independent councillor Kathleen Leddin who protested about their size!

See previous post.

"These buses are huge and ponderous. People here should talk to Bus Eireann and make sure we get smaller buses. Whatever people say, there needs to be some input to give people a smaller bus model, which is convenient and sustainable for the area."
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby cheebah » Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:14 pm

http://getlimerickmoving.com/ good to see this kicking off.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby zulutango » Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:27 pm

CologneMike wrote:I got my councillors mixed up, :o it was Independent councillor Kathleen Leddin who protested about their size!

See previous post.


to be fair, there probably is some merit to that suggestion. A lot of european cities have smaller buses in situations that require them. I can think of a few places in Limerick where buses cause traffic gridlock because they can't get around corners, without having to swing across to the far side of the street. And there would be hardly any passengers on the bus!! In that context, smaller buses could be looked at as part of an improvement to the bus servic
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby teak » Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:52 pm

As someone who lives on the proposed southern green route :

I have nothing against a good bus service on this avenue.
And I accept that it is probably the best principal southern route in/out for buses.
Also I accept that as it's the shortest route between the city centre and the Regional Hospital then it will also perforce be the route for ambulances, police, fire services, civil defence, etc.
Neither have I anything against taxis on this route -- although they may (and do) often choose to return to the city centre via other parallel routes.

My problem is simply with commuter traffic on this same route at peak times (0700-1000 and 1400-1900).
This could easily be re-routed to enter/exit the city centre via Hyde Rd or Roxboro Rd.

By this, the objectives of having a good bus service, maintaining residents' parking, preserving the marvellous architectural heritage and allowing bike lanes may be met at minimal cost.
Indeed a good share of the funding might be better spent on the Hyde Rd / Roxboro Rd / Parnell St areas anyway.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:01 pm

Zulutango, I’m not arguing the case that these articulated-buses should replace all the standard length ones. I was merely rebuffing councillor Leddin’s opposition to their use on the Western Corridor. They are the ideal type of bus to serve these three designated corridors.

Their high load capacity especially at peak times are ideal to serve the large student populations attending UL, MI, LIT or those working directly along those routes like two industrial parks, three Shopping Centres, a Regional Hospital not to mention the City Centre itself.

By the way the Cologne satellite-town where I live (population just 10.000) uses them at peak times to get people to school or work. Amazingly we in Limerick down-sized our buses from double-deckers to single ones just to save labour costs (conductors) purely. Automated ticket systems would have been a better alternative to maintain productivity.

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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby zulutango » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:10 am

CologneMike wrote:Zulutango, I’m not arguing the case that these articulated-buses should replace all the standard length ones. I was merely rebuffing councillor Leddin’s opposition to their use on the Western Corridor. They are the ideal type of bus to serve these three designated corridors.

Their high load capacity especially at peak times are ideal to serve the large student populations attending UL, MI, LIT or those working directly along those routes like two industrial parks, three Shopping Centres, a Regional Hospital not to mention the City Centre itself.

By the way the Cologne satellite-town where I live (population just 10.000) uses them at peak times to get people to school or work. Amazingly we in Limerick down-sized our buses from double-deckers to single ones just to save labour costs (conductors) purely. Automated ticket systems would have been a better alternative to maintain productivity.

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I would agree with you, Mike. But I think she was highlighting the fact that many of the buses in the city are too big for the routes that they are on, and they do cause problems. I'm a resident of Clancy Strand myself, and the existing buses (which are often nearly empty) frequently cause difficulty and traffic chaos at the junction of the strand and Sarsfield Bridge. Absolutely, on the main routes, where passenger volumes require it, there should be larger buses, if the roads can cope with them.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:19 pm

teak wrote:My problem is simply with commuter traffic on this same route at peak times (0700-1000 and 1400-1900).
This could easily be re-routed to enter/exit the city centre via Hyde Rd or Roxboro Rd.


Good point. Since the opening of the tunnel, traffic coming from the M20 can no longer enter the city at Galvone, it practically rules the Hyde and Roxboro Roads option out. I’m curious to see the traffic patterns when the schools re-open.

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City Council Map ~ Main Approach Roads (Condell Road should have been highlighted too.)

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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:42 pm

zulutango wrote:I'm a resident of Clancy Strand myself, and the existing buses (which are often nearly empty) frequently cause difficulty and traffic chaos at the junction of the strand and Sarsfield Bridge.


Definitely that bus in the image below was having difficulties leaving the Stand to get onto the Bridge.

But surely you are not blaming them for the tail-backs on the Ennis Road?

In the best scenario those four buses on the bridge when full could equate up to 100 car spaces.

At worst, when empty just equate to 8 car spaces.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby teak » Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:30 pm

Since the opening of the tunnel, traffic coming from the M20 can no longer enter the city at Galvone, it practically rules the Hyde and Roxboro Roads option out.

Please elaborate as to what you mean.

I see no reason why traffic coming in the dual carriageway from Adare, etc can't slip onto the ring road and then either go left to Hyde Rd or right to Roxboro Rd.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:13 pm

teak wrote:Please elaborate as to what you mean.

I see no reason why traffic coming in the dual carriageway from Adare, etc can't slip onto the ring road and then either go left to Hyde Rd or right to Roxboro Rd.


They have now closed the direct slip-road from the Rosbrien Interchange to the Childers Road for traffic coming from Adare over the M20.

That means no left turn to Hyde Rd or right turn to Roxboro Rd.

I take it very few M20 drivers will take the Dock Road or Tipperary Road option as it would add miles on to their in-bound journey.

Therefore I presume drivers will then exit before hand on the Dooradoyle interchange and would imagine the majority will take the route via the Crescent Shopping Centre into the city centre?

Or will peoples navigators direct them along the two un-appropriate country-lanes (Rossbrien Road or Ballyclough Road) into the city?

So like I said, I’m curious to see what traffic patterns will develop especially when the schools re-open.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby teak » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:57 pm

Christ, you're right.
What they've done is not noticeable driving out to Adare.
And not one word about it by anyone I know.

I wonder what that was done for . . . ;)

Yes, I suppose you're right -- they'll mostly come in by the Crescent SC and then on to . . . Ballinacurra and O'Connell Avenue.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby teak » Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:11 pm

Had a poke around the Galvone - M20 junction this weekend.

The removed slip road from the M20 to the South Ring Road can be easily restored.

More peculiarly, there is a dodgy guidance onto the M20 for traffic leaving the city from the South Ring Road to Adare.
I mean it is a very narrow and poorly signed shared lane with traffic leaving the city for Dublin.
And if you do not have your wits about you and stay on the right side, you could end up on the the road out towards the Dublin Road.
A fella from N. Ireland was lost at the roundabout last Friday, as I was looking at things.
He couldn't find clear signs towards Adare.

So it now looks as if the interchange at Galvone is so designed as to put everyone approaching it from either direction onto the national primary road linking the tunnel and the Dublin road . . .
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby teak » Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:17 pm

....................
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby foinse » Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:20 am

teak wrote:Had a poke around the Galvone - M20 junction this weekend.

The removed slip road from the M20 to the South Ring Road can be easily restored.

More peculiarly, there is a dodgy guidance onto the M20 for traffic leaving the city from the South Ring Road to Adare.
I mean it is a very narrow and poorly signed shared lane with traffic leaving the city for Dublin.
And if you do not have your wits about you and stay on the right side, you could end up on the the road out towards the Dublin Road.
A fella from N. Ireland was lost at the roundabout last Friday, as I was looking at things.
He couldn't find clear signs towards Adare.

So it now looks as if the interchange at Galvone is so designed as to put everyone approaching it from either direction onto the national primary road linking the tunnel and the Dublin road . . .


I don't think it is designed to put everyone onto the M7 teak, I reckon that it is just purely down to poor planning, for instance up to a couple of weeks ago the sign for limerick racecourse was on the left side of the road going out, leading people to believe that they had to join the M7 if they wanted to go racing for the day, This has since been changed.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby teak » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:04 pm

Having read the previous posts on this thread, it has all become clearer.

Grade A mess up rather than LA Confidential style conspiracy.

That said, I do not see any reason why the M20 - South Ring Road link can't be easily re-established (e.g. simply as a run-off road from the start of the cloverleaf loop round onto the Tunnel Route) and traffic from the south distributed among a number of roads into the city.
Otherwise it'll be chaos.

There is a feeling around that a gombeen element within the Crescent shopping centre is trying force footfall through this place by putting it in people's faces day after day .

Whatever about this, it is clear by now that all traffic routing decisions should be referred to a council of citizens prior to approval.
Councillors ignorance of technical matters is just plain astonishing.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:20 am

teak wrote:Christ, you're right.


Christ, I wish I was wrong.

I wonder what that was done for . . . ;)


[INDENT]The NRA has explained that two-way access was always a temporary arrangement and the inbound lane had been closed to coincide with the imminent opening of the Limerick Tunnel. This is what the contractors had been asked to do after extensive public consultation and Limerick City Council at that stage wanted outbound access only from the Childers Road.

But Cllr Jim Long said the context to that stance was completely different.

"In 2001, that was the proposal and councillors and residents agreed that it should be closed off once it was finished. But that was in the context of safety concerns for the Roxboro Swimming Pool and Carew Park FC and children running across a busy road. Since then, Roxboro Swimming Pool has closed and Carew Park have relocated across the road. The position has changed but the NRA's position is that they contracts have been signed and the contractors would have to be compensated," Cllr Long said.[/INDENT]

They might have to compensate the tunnel operator for lost tolls too. Drivers are rational people and many would take a similar direct route through the city if the Rosbrien Interchange was reconnected for Cork, Waterford and Dublin traffic heading in the Galway direction (avoid tolls).

When politicians are involved, there is more than what meets the eye regarding the layout of this Interchange.

P.S. Check out the route map and then click the Cork/Kerry to City Centre and Dublin to City Centre destinations on it.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby teak » Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:17 pm

Must a Green Route have bus-lanes in it ?
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:26 pm

Limerick Regeneration Project list (PDF)

Phase One Implementation Plan

Access from the Southern Ring Road (Cost: €7 million)

Proposal is to put in place modifications to the recently completed Rosbrien Interchange to facilitate access to Southill from Dublin and Cork via the Roxboro Road. Project would include new access routes, new bridge construction, widening existing bridge and additional slip roads. This project has a city, county and regional context.


Anybody know exactly how do they intend to re-connect the inbound access for the following two routes by modifying the Rosbrien Interchange with the Roxboro Road with just €7 million?
  • Dublin / Waterford to City Centre
  • Cork to City Centre
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby KeepAnEyeOnBob » Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:28 am

CologneMike wrote:Anybody know exactly how do they intend to re-connect the inbound access for the following two routes by modifying the Rosbrien Interchange with the Roxboro Road with just €7 million?
  • Dublin / Waterford to City Centre
  • Cork to City Centre


The giveaway is probably the talk about connecting to the Roxboro road. This probably means two slips onto the bridge just east of the actual existing junction. I.e. R511 - road out to Fedamore. Only two slips needed, offslip on M7 eastbound (allowing M18/M20 traffic to access Roxboro) and offslip on M7 westbound (allowing N24/M7 traffic to access).

This is more likely than any true modifications to the existing freeflow junction.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:44 pm

Ah, I see what you mean.

The “Dublin / Waterford to City Centre“ and the “Cork to City Centre” in-bound routes would be as follows.
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