New Advertising in Dublin

Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby dc3 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:10 am

Saw an interesting new development yesterday, at a prominent city location. This was a parked bike with both wheels advertising a nearby cafe. Perhaps this is the "green" alternative to the parked advertising trucks close to the motorways!:D
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby Cathal Dunne » Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:14 am

GrahamH wrote:
Image


I've noticed that there are a lot of poles around Town covered in green netting very similar to the ones Graham has so assiduously photographed here. They must be the latest batch of the 140 signs due to be fitted around Dublin. I spotted poles near the Four Courts, at the top of Pearse St/bottom of D'Olier St. and at the top of Grafton St. Hopefully they're finished soon as, going by the City Hall example, they're wonderful directional tools and they'll improve the ability of tourists(and some locals) to get around the city.
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby PVC King » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:11 am

dc3 wrote:Saw an interesting new development yesterday, at a prominent city location. This was a parked bike with both wheels advertising a nearby cafe. Perhaps this is the "green" alternative to the parked advertising trucks close to the motorways!:D


Why not?

A number of the sandwich shops in London do deliveries with small narrow bicycle trailers which are almost more mobile billboards than delivery vehicle. Doubtless there is enough visual clutter already but if the CC are careful where they put cycle stands then you really do have to applaud people who see the opportunity to get some free advertising in prominent places and take it gratefully.
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby StephenC » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:30 am

Its worth reposting the DCC press release on the wayfinder signage because there are some very obvious locations where one would expect to find signage, notably College Green, O'Connell Bridge and Smithfield.

Lord Mayor of Dublin, Councillor Emer Costello, will announce details of Dublin’s first integrated pedestrian ‘wayfinding’ system on Tuesday 25th May at 9am at Barnardo’s Square, Dame Street, Dublin 2.

The pedestrian ‘wayfinding’ system will comprise of twenty map panels and eighty fingerpost signs and will help locals and visitors to get around the city with ease. The maps and extracts from the map will also be available for widespread distribution as handheld maps which will be ideal for visitors to the city and will also be free to download from http://www.dublincity.ie.

The new ‘wayfinding’ system is provided through the civic amenity contract between Dublin City Council and JCDecaux. This contract includes the hugely successful dublinbikes scheme and a network of civic information displays. This system will replace the existing brown fingerpost signs and will be culturally focussed. It will be in place by late summer 2010.

“The new pedestrian ‘wayfinding’ system will create a great network of information and knowledge for visitors to Dublin and Dubliners alike. Anything that makes our city a more accessible and user friendly place to walk around is something to be welcomed and commended. These fingerposts and maps will enhance everyone’s ability to move around the city and to easily locate destinations across the city centre. Like dublinbikes it will be a wonderful addition to our civic amenities” said the Lord Mayor.


The scheme includes 20 panels which haven't yet been erected it seems. Its likely these will feature at the above locations. Has the installation stalled due to builders holidays I wonder?
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby tommyt » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:28 pm

Bare pole matching this description at the five lamps at the minute. That ped island could do with a lot of TLC commensurate with its landmark significance.
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby StephenC » Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:32 pm

Sure its Nort Strand....who gives a shit. Like poor aul Aldborough House. Or fast fading Preston Street. North Strand-Amiens Street has to be the least attractive approach road into the city centre in spite of itself. As you say Tom a little TLC would go along way.
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby Paul Clerkin » Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:51 pm

dc3 wrote:Saw an interesting new development yesterday, at a prominent city location. This was a parked bike with both wheels advertising a nearby cafe. Perhaps this is the "green" alternative to the parked advertising trucks close to the motorways!:D


a throwback to the old butcher's delivery bikes? they usually always had some nice handpainted name on a panel within the diamond frame
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby StephenC » Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:18 pm

An interesting move by the new UK Govt reported in the Guardian

Decluttering UK streets

Now if only Mr Cuffe could put some pressure to bear on Irish city and town councils.
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby hutton » Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:02 pm

StephenC wrote:An interesting move by the new UK Govt reported in the Guardian

Decluttering UK streets

Now if only Mr Cuffe could put some pressure to bear on Irish city and town councils.


StephenC, you beat me to it :) ... And DCC take note!

The crappy public domain standards inflicted on civic society by engineers, and led by the UK in particular, are now being rolled back.

We as a little post colonial nation have emulated the brits worst standards in this regard. The JC Decaux fiasco is simply an extension of an impoverished mindset that places little value on our public domain, and short sells consequently.

The obstructive visually insulting junk thrown up at College Green as signage in the name of 'busgate' is another very recent example of the same.

Apart from the aesthetic argument, from the article below, it would seem that the Hans Monderman school of thought has been proven correct - "When busy Kensington High Street in central London was stripped of excess road furniture, for example, it helped reduce accidents by 47 percent."

Dublin during the bubble was at the forefront of erecting street junk - DCC were not alone; RPA with Red Line Luas and other agencies were also at it... So now London authorities are correctly removing the same such junk - leaving Dublin as possibly a 'World Class Centre of Excellence' for uncoordinated and dangerous street junk.

Happily, perhaps now that the brits are removing such crap, we might follow?

In the meantime, I look forward to DCC enforcing the independent level 3 safety reports on the JC Decaux units already erected - as was conditional with each planning consent granted back in 2007 / 08. Otherwise in the event of a road accident, wouldn't it be an awful bloody shame if officials hadn't enforced such an essential condition - potentially leaving them personally liable for any court actions that may arise? ;)


Britain being "overrun" by street signs

LONDON | Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:29pm EDT
(Reuters) - The British government has declared war on the profusion of unnecessary road traffic signs, railings and advertising boards, saying they blight towns' English character.

Communities Secretary Eric Pickles and Transport Secretary Philip Hammond has written to local council leaders in England, calling on them to cut the number of unsightly signs and other "street clutter."

Even traffic lights are in the firing line.

Ministers want the public to inform local authorities of particularly bad examples of excess signage, to clean up the national landscape.

"Our streets are losing their English character," Pickles said. "We are being overrun by scruffy signs, bossy bollards, patchwork paving and railed-off roads -- wasting taxpayers' money that could be better spent on fixing potholes or keeping council (local) tax down."

The government says that in some cases traffic signs are installed by councils in the mistaken belief they are legally required, when they are not.

Hammond said the abundance of so-called street furniture often makes towns resemble "scrapyards," confusing motorists and obstructing pedestrians.

For signs to be most effective, ministers say, they should be kept to a minimum.

When busy Kensington High Street in central London was stripped of excess road furniture, for example, it helped reduce accidents by 47 percent.

The Department for Transport is reviewing traffic signs policy and new advice on how to reduce clutter will be published later this year.

(Reporting by Stefano Ambrogi; Editing by Steve Addison)
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby PVC King » Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:15 pm

hutton wrote:- "When busy Kensington High Street in central London was stripped of excess road furniture, for example, it helped reduce accidents by 47 percent."



Cllr Moylan is so vociforous in his defence of the de-cluttered environment on KHS that when local council officials wished to install a shop directory for the High Street that they needed to go to an individual landlord to get space inside the Arcade connecting the tube and the High Street.

The landlord donated the space even though the two panels donated were worth at least £5,000 each per year. He obviously realised that the pristine environment had its value at rent review time.

How many years before DCC can extract the City from an exceptionally punk deal?
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby StephenC » Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:07 pm

The inexorable rise of the bollard continues....

The latest mess has been created on South William Street on the attractive little street layout in front of the Powerscourt Centre. Most of the former stone bollards have now been removed (whether by accident or design) and replaced with that old favourite of urban designers everywhere, the concrete and steel lump in tasteful battleship grey.

Elsewhere the new bus stops being installed by Dublin Bus are great. Well designed and much smarter and robust that the aul pole they replace. But is it really necessary to have a stop sign and a shelter at the same location? And of course the roll out of the long long awaiting "real time passenger info" is necessitating yet another addition to the streetscape. Even when a bus shelter is in place. You may have spotted the stainless steel poles at various locations.
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby GrahamH » Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:26 am

Yep those South William Street bollards have been whacked out and replaced a long while now. It beggars belief that not even purpose-designed, flagship curtilages of prominent buildings are safe from such treatment.

And they don't even bother painting the new mega-bollards! Just left rusting with a white band around them as if sitting on the quayside in Clogherhead! Where would ya find it...
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby StephenC » Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:10 pm

Hmmm...perhaps we need a dedicated street furniture thread. Or rename this one.

Anyhow and interesting article in today's Irish Times on the subject of how we use our streets and touching on issues such as traffic controls, signage, barriers and segregation of spaces.

Is there a better way to share our streets?

I believe Ben Hamilton Baille was speaking at a conference today on the subject. He was on Pat Kenny yesterday. The article ties in with the UK piece previously posted.
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby PVC King » Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:39 pm

A dedicated street furniture thread would by a very good idea
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby StephenC » Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:08 pm

From today's IT:

Dublin bike scheme set for tenfold expansion
OLIVIA KELLY

A TENFOLD expansion of the Dublin bike scheme from 500 to 5,000 bikes, which will be available to use from UCD to DCU, is planned by Dublin City Council.

The five-year expansion plan will see the number of bike stations across the city increased from just over 40 to about 300, bringing the service into the suburbs.

The expansion will take place in 14 phases radiating out from the current 41 locations. The area east of the current stations to the Docklands and west to Heuston Station will be the first areas of expansion, followed by the inner suburbs of Dolphin’s Barn, East Wall, Phibsboro, Cabra and Ranelagh.

By the end of five years, the council plans to have all areas covered out as far as DCU to the north of the city, UCD to the south, Inchicore to the west and Sandymount to the east.

The bike scheme, which has been operating since September 2009, has attracted more than 47,000 subscribers, making it one the most popular bike hire schemes in Europe. The bikes and their pick-up and drop-off stations have thus far been funded by out-door advertising company JC Decaux, which won the contract to provide the bike scheme in return for advertising space in the city.

However, Jim Keogan, executive manager of the council’s planning department, said the extension could not be funded in the same way as it would not be feasible or acceptable to allow the amount of advertising that would be required for the scale of expansion, nor could it be funded through council resources. Instead it would have to be achieved through a combination of public and private money.

The Department of Transport and the National Transport Authority were committed to assisting the completion of the first two phases to the Docklands and Heuston and private companies were “more than willing” to fund bike stations outside their premises, he added.

The expansion plans would, however, be subject to a public procurement process. Mr Keogan said he hoped that could get under way next spring and that work on the first two phases would get under way by the end of next year.

The council last April announced a small-scale expansion of the scheme to provide four new bike stations and 100 more bicycles. That was to have been completed by August, but to date only one of the stations, at Harcourt Terrace, is complete.

A new station at Smithfield will not be built until the work to upgrade the Smithfield Plaza begins; work on a site in Portobello is due to begin shortly; while plans for a new station at Eccles Street have had to be abandoned because of the discovery of a previously unidentified trunk water mains underground.

Mr Keogan said he would be reluctant to fund the expansion through an increase in charges, which would “alienate the population”.


Is it really feasible to expand this to such a wide area and manage 5,000 bikes?
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby lostexpectation » Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:14 pm

huh so how can you have the dublin core bikes to be continued to funded by advertising by jc decaux and lots more outside that area funded by part public and part private money? the deal is still be trumpeted far and wide as a success, without ever mention advertising or where the new funding will come from, its good to have hte bikes working successfully, but at least mention the facts people. Andrew "billboards" Montague taking credit whenever he can without mention the advertising part.
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby PVC King » Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:24 pm

Its called getting killed in the deal by someone who focussed while you made a complete dogs breakfast of the public interest; Andrew Montague who I hazard a very speculative guess may have been one of the first people to propomote the deal and everyone connected with the original transaction should resign or be removed.London with a population of 8m has 6,000 bikes why does Dublin need 5,000?
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby gunter » Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:23 pm

I don't understand the continued negativity directed at this scheme.

The whole thing has been an outstanding success, how often do you get to say that in Dublin?

So what if some advertising company got to make a bundle of money out of it, their operation of the bike part of the deal has been pretty flawless, as far as I can see, and there hasn't even been any slippage in the standard of finish around the bike stands that have been expanded to cope with the demand. I thought they were going to botch the Portobello one which is cut into the tasty stone paving of the canal harbour plazza, but no! they've just finished it and the trimming around the stands is pretty spot on again.

From that interview with Keogan, it sounds like the Corpo have learned from the criticism of the original 'deal' and now that the bike scheme is a proven success, which wasn't in any way certain at the outset, they're planning the expansion of the scheme under new arrangements, that seems eminently sensible to me, what's the problem with it?
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby StephenC » Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:34 pm

I agree that we shouldnt be unduly negative. I think asking Andrew Montague to resign is rubbish! He has made a contribution to the city rarely seen among councillors. It is a pity that we didnt get more out of the deal though.

I am simply asking the question whether the scheme can be managed...such as getting bikes around stations, maintaining 5000 bikes, etc over such a wider area. Thats all.

If expanded it would certainly transform movement around the city.
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby gunter » Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:10 am

5,000 sounds a shade ambitious right enough, Stephen, but I s'pose there's nothing wrong with a bit of ambition.

I don't know if I'd draw too many conclusions from comparisons with London, you'd want to have a death wish to attempt to cycle through central London.
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby PVC King » Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:25 am

StephenC wrote: I think asking Andrew Montague to resign is rubbish!


JCDecaux to gain €63m from bike scheme
French advertiser to earn €9m more than Dublin city council from "bikes-for-billboards" projectColin Coyle and Ruadhan MacEoin It was christened the “free bike scheme” but JCDecaux, the French advertiser chosen to run a “bikes-for-billboards” project in Dublin, actually stands to earn €9m more than the city council from the project.

The contract signed by the council and the advertising company, which has been released to The Sunday Times after a ruling by the Information Commissioner, reveals that JCDecaux is due to make €63.38m in advertising revenue over 15 years from the 72 advertising billboards it has been allowed to erect.

By contrast, the council will receive benefits estimated to be worth €54.36m over 15 years, including 450 bicycles, 40 bicycle “stations”, €23.4m worth of advertising on the billboards, and a “wayfinding” system of 100 “fingerpost” signs directing tourists to attractions in the city.

The council has said JCDecaux was chosen to operate the scheme because its proposal was “costneutral”. Originally due to start two years ago, the scheme will now begin in mid-September. Bikes will be free to hire for the first 30 minutes, and are then paid for.

The city council had refused to release details of the contract, citing a confidentiality agreement with JCDecaux. Emily O’Reilly, the Information Commissioner, ruled, however, that “the public had not been given sufficient information on which to assess the council’s handling of the matter and to understand what the city might stand to gain or lose”.

O’Reilly also criticised the council for not releasing all the records relating to the deal to her office until a late stage in her investigation. The council apologised, saying it had “inadvertently omitted” some documents due to an oversight. She said that “the very existence of secrecy [with the process] carries with it the scope for abuse”.

Based on JCDecaux’s advertising rate card for the billboards, the company could have made in excess of €170m had every one of its “metropole” units and smaller “metropanel” advertising stands been rented continuously over 15 years.

But a spokesman for the council defended the deal, saying that the projected net revenue of €63.38m had been agreed almost three years ago, before an advertising downturn took hold.

“My understanding is that, based on the current market, the company is not achieving the projected rates agreed in 2006. The deal has worked out well for the city, and our advertising campaigns, particularly the anti-litter campaign and a drive to get people to visit their local library, have been a huge success,” he said.

In an internal council report conducted on 32 of the advertising units, it was found that only eight were free from “road-user infringements”, with some blocking drivers’ sightlines and causing “blind spots”.

JCDecaux agreed to remove 50 of its existing advertising hoardings to reduce “visual clutter” in the city. Details of the negotiations reveal that the council originally planned to give JCDecaux permission for 170 advertising units, in exchange for 500 bicycles and a number of public lavatories. Under that agreement, Decaux would have made €125m in advertising revenue over 15 years, while the council would have recouped €101m in benefits. This deal was later renegotiated to give JCDecaux permission to erect 120 advertising hoardings, but only 72 were granted planning permission following appeals to An Bord Pleanala from locals and An Taisce.

Ian Lumley of An Taisce said: “Dubliners appear to have got a poor deal. There should have been an environmental impact assessment, and new units built close to historic buildings should have been referred to us.”



Take €23m out for advertising panels that one does not see the council getting in the prime pitches or need and the benefit is €31m over 15 years whilst if the original Montague deal were done JC Deceaux would have according to the article have walked away with €170m.
A dogs breakfast made of the public interest only slightly mitigated by the actions of concerned citizens and a heritage group.
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby kefu » Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:59 pm

What's wrong with a bit of ambition? 5,000 may be a touch too many but certainly the numbers currently in use could do with expansion.
Dublin and its small scale is a bicyclist's paradise, notwithstanding the poor state of the roads and cycling facilities.
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby PVC King » Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:49 pm

Would €170m invested directly in cycling facilities over 15 years not have been a better outcome than 500 bikes and few signposts?

As a civilisation we moved on from barter centuries ago.

To correct this punk deal I propose an immediate dispatch of valuers from the VO to attach rateable valuations on all external advertising signage excluding shopfronts and facias and that all external advertising be rated at rate of 80 cents in the euro this would be done nationally; that is one property tax the population could buy into; raising taxes that do not surpress demand is difficult this one with the upwards only nature of rent reviews gets pay back from an industry that has actively encouraged a complete flouting of planning laws since day 1.
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby hutton » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:15 pm

It is to be welcomed that the city council is apparently adopting a bicycles without billboards approach. That this is seemingly now the agenda of City Hall, is in no small part down to discourse on this site and a number of concerned city dwellers.

The bicycles of themselves have been a tremendous success - and it was a real pity that they were ever tarnished by association to the rotten billboard element, where massive cash was missed out on - and the city's aesthetic appearance degraded.

I really wish the billboard-free extension well - Dublin can be a great city for bikes, and despite many reservations voiced here and elsewhere, neither have bicycles been stolen nor have there been any fatalities / serious accidents. The localised selection of location of the stands seems to have worked far better than the Paris model, in that passive security was clearly a priority and resultingly, far less vandalism, theft, and general anti social behaviour has taken place. So credit where its due.

Of course we must continue to monitor the scheme with vigilance. Regrettably past experience has led one to not have confidence in key people centrally involved with the scheme and its implementation:

PVC King wrote:Would €170m invested directly in cycling facilities over 15 years not have been a better outcome than 500 bikes and few signposts?


This is a key point that must never be forgotten - €170m revenue potential in exchange for 500 bikes and some finger posts was a scandalously atrocious deal in the first instance; I laugh every time I hear that the bikes are 'the most used bikes in the world' - of course they are because so few were provided in exchange! And obviously major issues were raised earlier this year by dcc's misuse of Part 8 in developing another couple of billboards for JC Decaux... Hence by experience to date, vigilance must be maintained - its highly likely the city would be getting plastered with dodgy billboards right now, were it not for sites like this and posters therein.

Provided bikes without billboards proceeds 'as it says on the tin', the city can be onto a real winner. The extension is intended to take place over ten years, which seems reasonable to me - yet at the same time ambitious as an extra 500 bicycles should be coming on stream each year.

It also throws up new planning challenges; anti-cycle one-way streets should be re-evaluated. To my mind there's absolutely no reason that we continue to have streets such as Kildare, Francis, and Werburgh Streets as one-ways (to name but three), if we have moved on from a mindset of 50 years ago, when the aim was to facilitate motor traffic moving at the fastest speed possible through city streets. It is shameful that both Kildare and Francis Streets are left one-ways, as each of them has ample roadway capacity to allow two-way vehicular traffic. In other instances, where roads must remain one-way, I would favour adopting the Paris model where cyclists are allowed cycle counter-flow - this is clearly road-marked, I hasten to add. Another suggestion I would make is that the bicycles should each have a clearly identifiable registration plate, so as to deter dangerous / illegal misuse by DB users - hutton just survived being part run over by a tourist going the wrong way last week :D

Now if councillors will put as much enthusiasm as they have focused on the bicycles into other matters - such as the deteriorating appearance of city centre areas like College Green / Westmorland St - we can be on the way to having a successful city :)
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Re: New Advertising in Dublin

Postby missarchi » Mon Nov 15, 2010 9:12 am

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