"Temporary" Event centre

"Temporary" Event centre

Postby browser » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:14 am

What do people make of this story in today's Examiner?


4,000-seater events centre aims to lure biggest stars
By Eoin English

Thursday, July 22, 2010

AN EVENTS centre, larger than the main hall of Dublin’s RDS, is to be built in Cork city within months.

The ARC Event Centre will be built in the city’s docklands and will open in September with a Stars Wars convention, its backers confirmed last night.

They also said several other high-profile events including Toys 4 Big Boys, Cork On Ice and the Ideal Homes Exhibition have also been confirmed for the venue.

The long-awaited facility, which the city has been trying to secure for several years, will be housed in one of the world’s most sophisticated temporary structures — The Veldeman TFS (Tensile Frame Structure).

It will offer all of the safety, comfort and finishing of a permanent building including air conditioning and heating. It will be constructed within weeks on the Live at the Marquee site — the site of the city’s proposed permanent events centre — which already has planning permission for a 5,000 capacity venue.

Discussions are under way with Cork City Council to ensure that the new venue meets relevant planning requirements.

The ARC measures 40,000 square feet (3, 716sq m), is larger than the main hall of the RDS and is capable of seating up to 4,000 people for a concert. But it is flexible enough to host the largest consumer and business exhibitions. It will be located on a 10-acre site, with parking, and is just one kilometre from City Hall.

The project is backed by Clowater Investments Ltd, SDL Exhibitions Ltd, a leading exhibition company, and Bill Cremin of Cool Runnings Entertainment, the company behind the Cork On Ice event.

Clowater’s Jason Clerkin said the ARC’s arrival is fantastic news for the city and Munster.

"The success of the ‘Live at the Marquee’ series has shown the appetite that exists in Munster for an event centre," he said.

"While this version of the ARC is a semi-permanent structure, we’re committed to developing a permanent structure on the same site, ensuring that Cork’s docklands remain the home for entertainment in the city."

ARC general manager Bill Cremin said the facility represents a fantastic opportunity to add to the cultural, social and economic life of the city.

"We now have a venue that can attract the biggest shows and stars to Cork and we’re confident that the centre will prove a huge hit with the public," he said.

SDL Exhibitions’s Sean Lemass said he is confident the venue will be a huge hit.

"We have already confirmed a number of high profile events for the centre, including Toys 4 Big Boys, Cork On Ice and the Ideal Homes Exhibition and we are inundated with inquiries from other exhibitors who previously were restricted to Dublin only," he said.

www.arceventcentre.ie"
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby kite » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:37 am

As part of the deal to sell the Mahon Point lands to O’Callaghan Properties in 1998 at a massive discounted price the deal sealer was that OCP would build an event centre and hand it over to the city at a cost not exceeding one pound (Yes one pound / 1.27 euro)

Ten years on and following questions asked by a city councillor that wasn’t fully asleep (there are one or two such creatures) the city decided to call in a cash settlement in lieu.

Hopefully the investigation into council matters by the Department of Environment will look into such ‘business practice’

We were promised an event centre; we will get a giant tent.
We were promised a light rail system; we may get ‘bendy buses’.
We were promised a public park in the docklands; we plan to sell the land to the GAA.
We were promised a 1 billion euro docks development; we have a derelict site.

:oWe really get what we deserve with the people we elect to represent us at local level!
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby who_me » Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:07 pm

kite wrote:As part of the deal to sell the Mahon Point lands to O’Callaghan Properties in 1998 at a massive discounted price the deal sealer was that OCP would build an event centre and hand it over to the city at a cost not exceeding one pound (Yes one pound / 1.27 euro)

Ten years on and following questions asked by a city councillor that wasn’t fully asleep (there are one or two such creatures) the city decided to call in a cash settlement in lieu.


Has the city received that settlement, and if so how much? I could be wrong, but I thought there was mention of a figure (2m?) which would be paid if the event centre wasn't built.

On another note, isn't there also some kind of grant available for building an event centre in the city (7m?). Does this temporary development claim that grant? If so, it's a bit disappointing.

Still, it sounds like it's bringing some big events to the city. If they prove to be a success, it might spur on the permanent event centre (supposedly going to be built at the same site, according to the article above).
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby Leesider » Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:31 pm

OCP planned one on Albert Quay I think as well, what is the story with that?

What do I think of this.......if there is such demand just build the f****** thing, stop giving us tents and temporary events centres!!!
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby rofbp » Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:34 pm

hopefully, this is just a way for the company involved to generate a revenue stream to allow them proceed with the permanent events centre, for which permission has been given.

to support that view, they seem to be using the same brand name for the temporary centre as was shown on the plans for the permanent centre. hopefully going to see something in the Arc will become as ingrained in our minds as going to the O2 is now

i assume the grants cannot be drawn down for this, and that the city council will have a strict time limit on how long the "temporary" structure can remain in place
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby jdivision » Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:41 pm

The return of the Howard Holdings boys?
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby kite » Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:24 pm

Temporary structure it may be, but are facilities in the form of sewage infrastructure etc capable of coping with 4000 people, or will portaloos be the order of the day?
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby daniel_7 » Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:53 am

does this mean its obviously a thumbs down for OCP development on albert quay by navigation house?and does anyone know when that is due for decision?
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby barneymagee » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:27 am

daniel_7 wrote:does this mean its obviously a thumbs down for OCP development on albert quay by navigation house?and does anyone know when that is due for decision?


OCP have yet to actual lodge an application for an events centre on Albert Quay. They only announced plans for their intention to develop such a site. However I doubt the Docklands temporary events centre will affect their plans. According to the ARC Events Centre website they are accepting bookings from September to February, suggesting it will be dismantled in the Spring.

Hard to know what will happen then. Maybe if it's a major success someone will build a permanent centre in the Docklands because full planning permission has already been granted, while OCP will have to go through the full planning process.

Hopefully cork can prove it can attract major concerts and events over the next six months.
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby who_me » Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:58 pm

barneymagee wrote:OCP have yet to actual lodge an application for an events centre on Albert Quay. They only announced plans for their intention to develop such a site. However I doubt the Docklands temporary events centre will affect their plans. According to the ARC Events Centre website they are accepting bookings from September to February, suggesting it will be dismantled in the Spring.

Hard to know what will happen then. Maybe if it's a major success someone will build a permanent centre in the Docklands because full planning permission has already been granted, while OCP will have to go through the full planning process.

Hopefully cork can prove it can attract major concerts and events over the next six months.


Well the marquee has been very successful, so it bodes well. Let's hope there's more to it than just the novelty factor of a few events a year, but there's genuine, long-term demand.

BTW, does anyone know the planning application number for the docklands event centre. I've looked and not found it.
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby barneymagee » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:40 pm

who_me wrote:BTW, does anyone know the planning application number for the docklands event centre. I've looked and not found it.


Howard Holdings lodged it under the name Allequay. 0832919
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby kite » Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:09 pm

Those behind the ARC Event Centre are claiming that the proposed development falls under ‘exempted development’. City planners are raising concerns on a number of grounds including traffic and mobility, will be interesting to see if it gets up and running within months as planned.
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby murfee » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:44 am

Will be interesting indeed. Its so badly needed. I am sick and tired of having to travel to Dublin for concerts and exhibitions. Surely the site is perfect for this kind of venture given the success of live at the marquee
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby who_me » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:36 pm

barneymagee wrote:Howard Holdings lodged it under the name Allequay. 0832919


Thanks for that! I'd forgotten that was part of the big Atlantic Quarter development. Is that all now dead in the water?
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby kite » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:24 pm

Confirmation that difficulties may arise in relation to the proposed ARC event centre.

http://www.corkindependent.com/local-news/local-news/confusion-over-arc-centre-plan/
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby rofbp » Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:26 pm

kite wrote:Confirmation that difficulties may arise in relation to the proposed ARC event centre.

http://www.corkindependent.com/local-news/local-news/confusion-over-arc-centre-plan/


seems like a bizarre way to operate a business.

its this type of attitude, that you can brazen it out and have your way, that is partly responsible for the planning and financial mess that is ireland.

requiring planning permission is not an unreasonable requirement.

how would a bank back such a proposal without basic requirements like planning permission being in place? have they not learned anything?

i hope an events centre is built in cork, and the permanent ARC seems an appropriate way to achieve this, but if the promoters are such a bunch of cowboys that they can't organise a glorified tent properly, i hold little hope that the real thing will be built, or operated successfully
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby who_me » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:14 pm

So what 'plans' for an event centre are still in play?

- The temporary ARC centre.
- The O'Callaghan proposal on Albert Quay.
- The Atlantic Quarter event centre (dead in the water?)
- The Beamish & Crawford site, to be developed by Heineken & BAM (???)

Any others?
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby barneymagee » Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:54 pm

who_me wrote:So what 'plans' for an event centre are still in play?

- The temporary ARC centre.
- The O'Callaghan proposal on Albert Quay.
- The Atlantic Quarter event centre (dead in the water?)
- The Beamish & Crawford site, to be developed by Heineken & BAM (???)

Any others?


I believe the group who have planning permission for a big hotel on the corner of Cornmarket Street and the Coal Quay have also suggested building an events centre there. Not sure if it would involve a whole new planning application. 07/32620 Murrayford.
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby jungle » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:28 pm

Surely that site would be too small.

I have concerns about the OCP proposal in terms of capacity, but at least that's just on the small size. Any building on Cornmarket St would be completely inadequate.

If you could get your hands on the Bridewell Garda Station (Which many be a listed building????) and close off Kyrl's St, things improve a bit, but it's still small.

Plus any construction at that location is going to end up tortuous because of archaelogical digs.

I suppose on the positive side, it's a great city centre location.
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby rofbp » Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:34 pm

barneymagee wrote:I believe the group who have planning permission for a big hotel on the corner of Cornmarket Street and the Coal Quay have also suggested building an events centre there. Not sure if it would involve a whole new planning application. 07/32620 Murrayford.


i know its off topic, but any sign of that hotel being built? it looks great in the renders that were linked to here on a different thread. its a great location for a hotel, as long as it doesn't flood, and it would put a good cap on the cornmarket project.
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby Leesider » Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:48 am

rofbp wrote:i know its off topic, but any sign of that hotel being built? it looks great in the renders that were linked to here on a different thread. its a great location for a hotel, as long as it doesn't flood, and it would put a good cap on the cornmarket project.


Murrayford were in a bit of financial trouble last year so not sure if they have the capacity for it to go ahead. It would finish of the Coal Quay nicely though and block that ugly multi-storey car park.
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby rofbp » Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:28 am

Leesider wrote:Murrayford were in a bit of financial trouble last year so not sure if they have the capacity for it to go ahead. It would finish of the Coal Quay nicely though and block that ugly multi-storey car park.


ugly is a mild world to use!
i often wondered why it was set back from the road so much. it certainly wasn't to allow us to stand back and admire it! i suppose it was for access for deliveries, but i wonder if it would be possible to build something to mask the whole lot, and leave access for deliveries like the o'callaghan development allows access to paul street centre further up the quays.

Back to the events centre:
i wonder how many events a year this thing needs to host to break even/be profitable.

if you look at the o2's website, they seem to have events every 2 days, with some extended runs of activity and some longer spells with nothing listed (eg 2-23/9/2010, 9-25/10/2010).

would events every 2-3 nights do it? ie 120-180 events per year?
the live at the marquee festival had 21 scheduled nights of concerts, followed by 15 performances of a musical over 7 weeks (including a week's gap) this year. i assume the marquee festival is profitable even without the musical, even allowing for building the marqee freshly each year, since aiken promotions keep coming back each year

thats 36 events, which leaves 84-114 events over 45 weeks, or 2-3 per week.

i know that the centre will have to be multifunctional and exhibitions/plays/musicals will have to be targeted too.

i suppose it depends on the quality of the acts, but can cork and the south-west/munster region support that many events per year.
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby Leesider » Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:14 am

I suppose you would have to look at the NEC in Killarney to get a good idea of what the capacity is for a centre like this in Munster, Cork should be able to get more events than them and I think the Cork centre would probably take a bit of business away from them too.
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby rofbp » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:47 pm

Leesider wrote:I suppose you would have to look at the NEC in Killarney to get a good idea of what the capacity is for a centre like this in Munster, Cork should be able to get more events than them and I think the Cork centre would probably take a bit of business away from them too.


the INEC have a real mix of acts and events
they have more irish acts than the O2, such as the high kings and des bishop, these acts normally go to the opera house when in cork.

the INEC would certainly be the main competition for a centre in Cork, but i'd say they can both operate. part of the benefit of the INEC to the Gleneagle Hotel is that they can increase their hotel occupancy through concerts, so it seems a good business model for them.

so perhaps it should be the opera house who have most to fear from a cork events centre. their financial position is already pretty precarious, as evidenced by the preposterous 3 month summer closure. they seem over-reliant on concerts rather than plays, and are beaten easily for quality of drama by the touring plays the everyman attracts.
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Re: "Temporary" Event centre

Postby theblimp » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:55 am

Part of the problem here is going to be political - not in the 'government' sense, but in terms of the groups that provide the acts. At present Live Nation have a stranglehold on almost all international touring talent. They're ridiculously powerful and they could, if they wanted, block acts from performing at any event centre in Cork. I think I read somewhere that the 'tent' group had partnered with SMG. These guys run the Odyssey in Belfast (among others) and tend to work well with promoters like Aikens (who run the Live at the Marquee series). Live Nation partner closely with MCD over here, so it could be interesting to see how easy any new development will deliver in terms of quality of talent.
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