dublin airport terminal

Does the architectural quality appear low?

Poll ended at Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:01 pm

Yes
17
40%
No
26
60%
 
Total votes : 43

Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby EIA340600 » Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:22 am

Agreed. But in terms of runway Dublin cannot handle a fully loaded 777 with its current length.Air France do fly 777's into Dublin regularly but these do not have the amount of fuel on board required for undertaking transatlantic flights.

The required takeoff length for a fully loaded A330 ranges from 2,220 to 2,500 metres.
The required takeoff length for a fully loaded B747 ranges from 3,090 to 3,320 metres.
The required takeoff length for a fully loaded B777 ranges from 2,500 to 3,536 metres, but only the least used models require 2,500 while the most popular models require 3,536.That means that only 88 out 1,141 777's can go from Dublin.

Dublin Airport's longest runway is 2,637 metres which means it is able to handle an A330 comfortably, but not a B777 or B747.

Your definitely right about the second runway though.It won't be required for another while (optimism?). But operators such as Singapore Airlines and Cathay Pacific have said that they would fly into Dublin if it had a longer runway, which can be achieved with a few land purchases and a runway extension.
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby PVC King » Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:34 pm

The right time to be buying land if there is an operational need for it; why IE's 747's historically flew to Shannon en route to the US is becoming clearer to me. Amazing the DAA never considered building just an extension as opposed to the more controversial second runway. They should clearly extend the existing one as it appears that IE have only one long haul supplier to chose from; not the best scenario when negotiating fleet enhancement.
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby EIA340600 » Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:02 pm

Absolutely.I can't imagine a couple of fields costing too much money at any rate but could surely be bought for pittance now.Land purchases are required for the 2nd runway anyway.I'd imagine that the DAA's proposal for a second runway was put forward because they thought that they'd get it in the boom years, but now that money is tight they should be considering the least expensive projects that offer them the most.
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby PVC King » Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:56 pm

With the road to St Margarets and Lispopple put through short a underpass the costs of a direct elongation would be pretty small; in contrast the benefits accruing from at least 2 daily Asian Hub flights with particular reference to the spin-off benefits for the E-Commerce sector would be immense in terms of daily air-freight options to the Worlds two largest air-freight hubs; not to mention direct flights to two of the World's largest and growing financial centres and only one change for Aus/NZ.

Typical naughties overlook the obvious
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby Bluetonic » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:36 pm

EIA340600 wrote:Land purchases are required for the 2nd runway anyway.

There is enough land already in ownership for both the new parallel runway and an extension to the current main runway (blue outline indicating land ownership)

http://tinypic.com/r/16715oo/3

http://i26.tinypic.com/r/290vlso/3
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby EIA340600 » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:46 pm

Bluetonic wrote:There is enough land already in ownership for both the new parallel runway and an extension to the current main runway.


Fantastic...I wonder how much an extension would actually cost in that case...Couldn't be much more than a small stretch of motorway plus a bit added on for special drainage and grip requirements..
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby Bluetonic » Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:53 pm

EIA340600 wrote:Fantastic...I wonder how much an extension would actually cost in that case...Couldn't be much more than a small stretch of motorway plus a bit added on for special drainage and grip requirements..

What would be the cost of disruption, or what would be the actual disruption to flights if an extension was to be constructed I wonder?
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby PVC King » Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:00 pm

I may be wrong but you imagine that health and safety would dictate that there would be some form of 'sterilised area' at the end of a runway in case in the event of an aborted take off the plane skids off the runway. They may still need to acquire some land and certainly put the road at the end into an underpass. In the greater scheme of things such costs would be de minimus.

In terms of construction disturbance there would be some impacts when both surfaces were merged but you would imagine that when the final 'joining up' was conducted that it could be phased and done out of hours i.e. after the last flight at night i.e. 1am and before the first i.e. 5am that gives a 4 hour window.
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby rofbp » Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:24 pm

PVC King wrote:I may be wrong but you imagine that health and safety would dictate that there would be some form of 'sterilised area' at the end of a runway in case in the event of an aborted take off the plane skids off the runway. They may still need to acquire some land and certainly put the road at the end into an underpass. In the greater scheme of things such costs would be de minimus.


googlemaps: gatwick runway

i'm no expert, but there isn't much space at either end of the runway at gatwick, which measures 3316 metres according to http://www.ukaccs.info/profiles.htm , though of course this is longer than dublin. hopefully land purchases won't be necessary
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby PVC King » Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:43 pm

Maybe it isn't required but I am always wary of going from the particular to the general. Better if your example of Gatwick is best practice and a small cost if it isn't. Little projects like this are pure gold, little cost and massive return; if you had daily flights to Singapore and Hong Kong that alone would deliver close to 0.5m passenger a year. For people going to Aus/NZ the change from 3 flights to 2 would be some progress not to mention not having to change and pay £41 in landing charges to use LHR coming in from Asia.
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby EIA340600 » Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:34 pm

The extension could be completed within normal working hours for the most part, as the crosswind runway could be used for the vast majority of flights.The runway in Manchester was completely resurfaced over a number of nights without disruption so it's certainly do-able.

At the moment you can fly to Australia with one stop but there is definitely room for competition.The current operators (Etihad) do extraordinarily well and often require multiple rotations a day on flights to Dublin and have done well throughout the recession.
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby PVC King » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:18 pm

I forgot about the connection through Abu Dhabi; given the choice you'd fly Hong Kong or Singapore anytime far more flights to be connected with if yours is late.
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby Flyboy » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:31 pm

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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby pragmatist » Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:39 am

interesting conversation.... sounds like some of the participants have quite intimate knowledge of the airport and/or the aviation sector.

the new paralell runway has permission from FCC... however DAA will be going back in to have the existing permission changed to facilitate A380's

the new county development plan will likely safeguard an extension to the existing southern runway also

watch out for Air India if DAA can do the deal..... the plan is for Dublin to act as a scissors hub with flights from 3/4 Indian cities (Delhi, Ahmedabad etc) converging on T2, utilising the CBP capability and flying on to 3/4 US airports such as O'Hare, Newark etc
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby PVC King » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:31 am

Dublin Airport's Terminal 2 to open today
Updated: 07:40, Friday, 19 November 2010

Dublin airport's Terminal 2 will be officially opened later this morning.

1 of 1 Terminal 2 - first official flight to arrive today Related Stories
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500 new jobs confirmed for Terminal 2
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Dublin airport's Terminal 2 will be officially opened later this morning.

While the first official flight will arrive today, airlines that are using the new terminal will begin transferring their services to the facility from next Tuesday. It will not become fully operational until the New Year.

Aer Lingus has advised all departing passengers and people collecting arriving passengers to report to Terminal 1 until further notice.

The transfer of transatlantic flights to Terminal 2 has been delayed as the US customs and border protection service will not be operational there until January.

The new terminal has been built at a cost of over €600m and has capacity for up to 15 million passengers.

Ryanair has criticised the project as a white elephant, saying it is not needed and has called for it to be mothballed.


One day after the IMF landed......
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby wiseowl » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:49 pm

The timing of the opening is certainly ironic. Given the prvious scenes of emigrants departing from Dublin Airport prevviously there'll be a very hollow ring to the goodbyes in the spanking new building. But, is it not something we need for the next 20 years no matter what happens??
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby PVC King » Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:15 pm

Fair point it may be required; at some point in the next 20 years things will look better they do now; but clearly that day will not come until comments like those below cease:

Meanwhile, Green Party leader John Gormley said the arrival of the IMF could be a 'positive', as it offered the opportunity to restructure our economy in a way that should have been done years ago.


The sooner we have an election the sooner a mandate can be given to finding ways to rebuild an economy on a bottom of sand
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby David Gray » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:36 pm

Passing through Dublin Airport last week, I was confronted with the image of the curved and reflective elements of Terminal 2 the its equally sleek raised walkway to the new parking facility immediately halted by the crude boxed elements that constitute a continuation of that same walkway and the parking structure itself. Whilst I accept that there is a limited scope to enchance the multi-storey garage, especially given that it was delivered through a design-build format, I believe that the transition in the walkway could not have been handled more clumsily.
Fortunately, I do not have an photo of this horror to share.
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby kefu » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:01 pm

De Paor project in the new Terminal at Dublin Airport, attractive if a little fussy:
http://www.dezeen.com/2011/01/20/oak-ba ... rchitects/
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby wearnicehats » Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:49 pm

kefu wrote:De Paor project in the new Terminal at Dublin Airport, attractive if a little fussy:
http://www.dezeen.com/2011/01/20/oak-ba ... rchitects/


looks like that trip he went on in Venice is still wearing off

unfortunately the nature of such large airport spaces breeds this kind of thing - it forces people into "installation" mode. It instills the need to inject "human scale" when perhaps the form of the surroundin gbuilding is strong enough to exist without it. It's better than anything at Stanstead anyway
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby Service charge » Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:48 pm

Passed through T2 yesterday. How disappointing from an architectural and design point of view.

Firstly, I do not believe the building is particularly functional. I disembarked the plane to find myself with a Pier D favourite: a stairs. Why oh why. 100 people carrying heavy bags, with push chairs and a wheel chair do not want to climb a stairs or queue for one lift. How does a stairs encourage the free flow of people and ease of passage.

The stairs was followed by a long walk, unaided by a stopped travelator. This transit was finished at the passport control where another old DAA favourite was waiting: a maze of belt barriers. I then entered a relatively cramped baggage hall, which seemed to be a carbon copy of T1.

Beyond this I found myself in arrivals and lost. I wanted to head over to T1 but there was not a single sign pointing in that direction. So I was forced to exit in the island between the car park and terminal. Found the busses there, but again typical DAA no electronic display relating to public transport. So had no idea where busses went from, just an aircoach guy selling tickets from a temporary stand.

Apart from the function issues above the design did not particularly impress me. Lots of glass but little to see through it. Very bland, no colour and certainly no character. No jaw dropping moments.

And as said the baggage hall was particularly small and cramped. As this is the area most arriving passengers spend time I would have expected a grand hall or at least an airy one; I found neither.

Again as someone said above the car park and terminal bear no relation to each other with the terminal tunnel simply stopping and carpark square design taking over. No gentle merger or integration.

Generally it reminded me of a shopping centre, Clarehall perhaps.

Bad design, poorly implemented and incompetently managed.

DAA showed they can't manage T1, they should not have been given T2. The gross lack of public transport information and organisation is a national disgrace given the importance of tourism to the country.
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby PVC King » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:03 pm

Service charge wrote: Passed through T2 yesterday. How disappointing from an architectural and design point of view.

Firstly, I do not believe the building is particularly functional. I disembarked the plane to find myself with a Pier D favourite: a stairs. Why oh why. 100 people carrying heavy bags, with push chairs and a wheel chair do not want to climb a stairs or queue for one lift. How does a stairs encourage the free flow of people and ease of passage.


Thats nut's, lifts fail particularly whilst being broken in; no less than 3 lifts is adequate for any modern transport hub.

Service charge wrote: The stairs was followed by a long walk, unaided by a stopped travelator. This transit was finished at the passport control where another old DAA favourite was waiting: a maze of belt barriers. I then entered a relatively cramped baggage hall, which seemed to be a carbon copy of T1.


I get the small baggage hall; the incentive in short hall is to assist airlines turn planes around in 45 mins as thats how airports charge for apron fees; consequently as airlines introduced baggae charges people carry small luggage which just hits the size and weight of their allowance of cabin bags; always wondered why Ryanair never sold cabin bags versus scratch cards :shifty:


Service charge wrote: Beyond this I found myself in arrivals and lost. I wanted to head over to T1 but there was not a single sign pointing in that direction. So I was forced to exit in the island between the car park and terminal. Found the busses there, but again typical DAA no electronic display relating to public transport. So had no idea where busses went from, just an aircoach guy selling tickets from a temporary stand.


Crazy, first impressions of a country matter, it reminds me of the St Pancaras farce in London where a €1bn regeneration project saw the flashiest station renovation forget to install a single atm; different currency zone, no signage, :think:



Service charge wrote: Again as someone said above the car park and terminal bear no relation to each other with the terminal tunnel simply stopping and carpark square design taking over. No gentle merger or integration.

Generally it reminded me of a shopping centre, Clarehall perhaps.

Bad design, poorly implemented and incompetently managed.


To be honest a serious shopping centre wouldn't make that kind of mistake.

Service charge wrote: DAA showed they can't manage T1, they should not have been given T2. The gross lack of public transport information and organisation is a national disgrace given the importance of tourism to the country.


DAA was created along with CAA and SAA http://www.shannonairport.com/gns/about ... ority.aspx

The reasoning was that Aer Rianta had made such a mess that a new start was required; what we got was a change in name only the other two airports are merely subsidiary companies. One of the priorities of the next Government will need to be to bring in a strategic equity partner to sort out the Aer Rianta mess; the name may have changed but there is no way the taxpayer interest is being maximised; with the level of facilities in Dublin the taxpayer should be receiving massive annual dividends as landing charges are high and service provision low; instead of funneling this money back to the taxpayer we get terminals that are overspec on glazing but underspec on basics like escalators and lifts.

I would ask the question of the Aer Rianta/ DAA board what disciplines are brought to the table?

Is there a couple of board memebers that have held senior office in a major International Hub such as JFK or Singapore?

A couple of board members who have worked with Infrastructure funds?

A couple of board memebers who have done major mall development?

No doubt the usual political appointees
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby Service charge » Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:12 am

Or even a single board member who has taken a bus from the airport!!!

In relation to the baggage hall, T2 is suppose to be a long haul terminal. So the vast majority of passengers will have large amounts of hold luggage. Which makes all the lifts and stairs particularly stupid.

Despite the money we paid we do not have either a functional terminal or an architectural masterpiece.
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby EIA340600 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:44 am

I had this to say on another forum and, unfortunately, I may not have been completely wrong.

Originally Posted by eia340600:

http://www.dublinairportauthority.co...s/introt2.html

A "tour" of the terminal.

From the off, I've been sceptical about passenger flows in the new terminal.This "tour" only heightens my fears.

For starters, departing passengers have to rise 2 floors after check in for security and shopping, only to have to descend 2 floors again to get to the gates.OR (USA bound passengers) descend 3 floors and rise another.
This is done so that arriving passengers only have one level change.

In the current terminal departing passengers have NO level changes and arriving passengers have one(after getting off the plane).

Not only do passengers have to change floors time and time again, but departing and arriving passengers actually intersect on the 1st floor of the terminal!!Never have I seen this happen outside of tiny regional airports.By the looks of things, departing passengers will have to walk through the ever present crowds of waiting plebs to get to security.

This layout is there because of the "bridge" over the T1 road.However, the roads were re-arranged to suit the new terminal, not the other way round.Therefore the bridge was unnecessary, and a more traditional and more effective terminal could have been designed.

Even if the bridge had to be there, a more flow friendly layout could have been adopted, with arrivals on the ground floor, check-in on the first and security on the 2nd, with the pier layout changed respectively.
Or arrivals on the top with check-in and security below.

In other words there were a million different possibilities that could have been used to design a more user friendly Terminal.I am dubious about T2 in that respect.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think T2 will be an incredibly annoying place to pass through..But I guess I'll have to wait and see..."
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Re: dublin airport terminal

Postby EIA340600 » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:44 am

I had this to say on another forum and, unfortunately, I may not have been completely wrong.

Originally Posted by eia340600:

http://www.dublinairportauthority.co...s/introt2.html

A "tour" of the terminal.

From the off, I've been sceptical about passenger flows in the new terminal.This "tour" only heightens my fears.

For starters, departing passengers have to rise 2 floors after check in for security and shopping, only to have to descend 2 floors again to get to the gates.OR (USA bound passengers) descend 3 floors and rise another.
This is done so that arriving passengers only have one level change.

In the current terminal departing passengers have NO level changes and arriving passengers have one(after getting off the plane).

Not only do passengers have to change floors time and time again, but departing and arriving passengers actually intersect on the 1st floor of the terminal!!Never have I seen this happen outside of tiny regional airports.By the looks of things, departing passengers will have to walk through the ever present crowds of waiting plebs to get to security.

This layout is there because of the "bridge" over the T1 road.However, the roads were re-arranged to suit the new terminal, not the other way round.Therefore the bridge was unnecessary, and a more traditional and more effective terminal could have been designed.

Even if the bridge had to be there, a more flow friendly layout could have been adopted, with arrivals on the ground floor, check-in on the first and security on the 2nd, with the pier layout changed respectively.
Or arrivals on the top with check-in and security below.

In other words there were a million different possibilities that could have been used to design a more user friendly Terminal.I am dubious about T2 in that respect.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think T2 will be an incredibly annoying place to pass through..But I guess I'll have to wait and see..."
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