Government wants to repossess landmark College Green bank

[hutton]

That W sign over the door case is truely shocking and the bloke on the right looks like he is urinating; the WAX letters are clearly a trip hazard on a public footpath.

Someone should complain....

I have heard that the matter was 6 months ago raised with senior executive DCC officials responsible for this area - yet nothing was done

How much are DCC senior execs paid p.a. again - €150,000 - €210,000 + expenses if I am not mistaken.

It is hard for me to understand why people are being paid telephone-figure salaries for jobs that they simply are not doing

[gunter]

They're probably as browned off writing letters as you are,. What we need is a small hit-squad to drive around in a big van with a set of ladders and just seize and impound all the illegal signage where ever its found and then charge the bastards for storing it, or donate it to IMMA to turn into an 'installation' as a commentary on urban degradation.

What's wrong with that?

[Smithfield Resi]

DCC is collecting rates from compliant owners to effectively subsidise cheapening illegal developments dumbing-down and degrading the city centre.

Interesting way to put it...

By the way - I think John Tierney is still on the board of Dublin Tourism.

[Smithfield Resi]

What we need is a small hit-squad to drive around in a big van with a set of ladders and just seize and impound all the illegal signage where ever its found and then charge the bastards for storing it, or donate it to IMMA to turn into an 'installation' as a commentary on urban degradation.

What's wrong with that?

I'm working on it..(really)

As it stands at the moment, removal could be construed as illegal. I'm working on a way to get a volunteer group authorised. There is precedent, apparantly IPA used to remove 'other' postering.

If you are wondering what the legal position is Wicklow CC have an excellent policy document. linkage

Anyone interested in forming a 'hit-squad' once I have this sorted from a legal standpoint, drop me a PM..

[tommyt]

They're probably as browned off writing letters as you are,. What we need is a small hit-squad to drive around in a big van with a set of ladders and just seize and impound all the illegal signage where ever its found and then charge the bastards for storing it, or donate it to IMMA to turn into an 'installation' as a commentary on urban degradation.

What's wrong with that?

While you're at it could you get a few more erm 'hardcore' elements to join this proposed possee armed with chainsaws and angle grinders as well to take out the trees and pole clutter around town

[gunter]

While you're at it could you get a few more erm 'hardcore' elements to join this proposed possee armed with chainsaws and angle grinders as well to take out the trees and pole clutter around town

You mean; invite the chair of the poles+trees sub-committee onto the direct-action task force?

Tommy, Tommy, you're jumping the gun there, that can only be done if you put down a special motion at the annual congress, or if you give due notice of the intention to convene an egm, assuming that there is a quorum of affilliated members to approve such action and, as you know, either way the motion can be defeated by a simple majority if the membership decide that such action is beyond the remit approved by the special orders that sanctioned the direct action in the first place, and provided that the covenants that restrict the usage of the van can be set aside under the provisions of the collateral terms inserted into the draft new modus operandi which, as you know is still a policy document, having failed to pass congress last year with the required two-thirds majority.

Obviously, either way, the whole thing is still subject to approval by the legal sub-committee and any ammendments proposed by them will have to be submitted for a full vote of the governing body, because, as you know, it'll be our wrists that'll be slapped if something goes horribly wrong.

That's the way to get things done around here.

[thebig C]

OMG, that "advertising" of the wax Museum is simply shocking.

I beileve that several years ago, this building housed a Museum of Irish Banking....how appropriate, but its a pity some of the bankers didn't spend more time there studying some of the bubbles of the past!!:))

I remember there was a proposal to transform the Foster Place frontage into the entrance to a Milan style Galleria leading to Fleet St. Obviously, that would entail alot of remodeling! I am assuming that the interiors are quite good?

Overall, for such a nice location and building, I can't help wondering is there a more appropriate use then a Wax Museum?

C

[StephenC]

You could try and Arts Centre provided good quality entertainment coupled with a trip of the House of Lords...

[StephenC]

By the way DCC have themselves gone to great effort to erect brown directional signs for tourists promoting the Foster Place Disgrace - as can be seen at Beckett Bridge, Suffolk Street and elsewhere.

These signs are everywhere. I must have counted about 30 so far...just for the "National" Wax Museum +. There are four on College Green alone. One of the more interesting ones is on the new Beckett Bridge. It was literally erected within days of the bridge opening. I must say finding the NWM+ is my main priority when crossing the Beckett Bridge.

How does the process for these work. Anyone? I presume a licence and fee is required. Do DCC make and install the signage or as seems more likely does a free for all ensue.

The whole thing makes a mockery of the soon to be installed "wayfinding" signage on College Green and elsewhere. There is a vague promise to remove brown finger signage as wayfinding comes on-stream. Lets not hold our breath. I am waiting for the pic of a new wayfinder sign with a brown finger sign attached.

[Morlan]

The whole thing makes a mockery of the soon to be installed "wayfinding" signage on College Green and elsewhere. .

Any more details on these new signs Stephen?

[hutton]

you Could Try And Arts Centre Provided Good Quality Entertainment Coupled With A Trip Of The House Of Lords...

+ 1

[StephenC]

my spelling is atrocious.

Wayfinder is on the way. I saw the map of proposed locations at the recent Designing Dublin expo but it was too small to make out clearly. Seems a good spread. Of course the map is probably "commercially sensitive" and not on DCC website that I can see.

I haven't seen any more units, bar the one on Barnardo Square (you all know that, right?)

[Zygnoth]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/fro ... 46151.html

RIAI should get involved quickly to rope this one off for someone local - would be an amazing commission for Irish architects!

[PVC King]

I think the government need to be very careful; they need to avoid a perception that the Irish state got prefential treatment from other creditors; if the state wants to acquire 2 College Green they should zone it cultural use; it has no future in its current use in the context of emerging markets dicatating energy costs.

Have a valuation done and CPO it; whilst the site would be extremely valuable as a cleared site; thankfully it is not cleared and contains Grattans Parliment; with a cultural use zoning and spot listing that expressly prohibits a conversion to anything of any value such as hotel; it would be entirely possible to prove that such a buillding has a signifiant negative value in financial terms. The time to act is now before values recover; one can never confuse financial and cultural value but when either dips it is always good to take advantage with the long term in mind... For what its worth I wouldn't spend anything on this building other than a soft strip of bank counters added in recent decades and repaving the carpark in to a pedestrian space

If no action is taken this will end up as a hotel or nightclub and either use will over decades of unauthorised alterations and playing of the grey areas by occupiers see the special little details destroyed.

[gunter]

I don't know about the merits of the proposal as an accountancy exercise, but I would support the idea that this great parliament building be taken back by the successors of the parliamentarians that shamefully gave it away.

Notwithstanding its longer heritage as a bank headquarters than as a parliament house and the excellent stewardship of the building that the B. of I. have maintained over the last two hundred and ten years, the building has always been bigger than its present use as a bank and the bank will always have known that this day was coming.

In general I think the idea of transforming the building into a museum is a better idea than attempting to shoehorn a modern parliamentary function back into it, however tempting that might be. Whether some kind of themed 'literature' museum is big enough of an idea for this particular building is something that I would think is open to question.

The alternative notion of creating a 'Dublin City Museum' is one that I would strongly support, but again, this is a national building and any museum function inserted into it should properly be national in character.

The concept of a Museum of the 18th Century is one that appeals to me. A number of cities, like Venice and Brussels, have begun to take that different approach recently to museum categorisation and created exactly that, a Museum of the 18th century, although, as I understand it, these institutions are largely focused on the material and cultural output of that particular century.

In our case, the 18th century - if we use the historians definition of the ‘Long Eighteenth Century’ as being roughly 1689 – 1830 - is undoubtedly one of the most critical period in the story of the nation, and of the capital city. As well as celebrating the cultural and material achievements of that century, an Irish Museum of the 18th Century, located in a building like the old Parliament House, could uniquely shine a light on the tortuous social and political history of the country in the actual building where these matters were debated in real time.

All the big names strode these halls and galleries, Grattan, Tone, and Emmet etc., either as leading participants or as critical on-lookers. An Irish Museum of the 18th Century could tell this story, and the story of war and penal laws, and the story of the immigration that followed plantation, and the story of the refugee communities; the Huguenots and the Palatines, and of the dissenter communities, the Presbyterians who were central to the formation of republican views and the Quakers who were central to the development of industrial Dublin. One or two open-to-the-public Georgian town houses and the odd exhibition in Collins’ Barracks can’t begin to tell this story, but a one great dedicated museum could.

Literature could still have a couple of rooms, music too, architecture is omnipresent in the place, although there’d obviously need to be a Dutch Billy wing as a counterpoint to the overwhelming atmosphere of Palladianism. There are even plenty of little courtyards for state coaches, sedan chairs and the like.

It is true that museums are tourist attractions for sure and that is not to be denigrated but, first and foremost, our museums affirm who we are and who-we-are has its roots in the 18th century probably more than any other period in our history.

On one level, this was the century when a deep sense of injustice began to ferment alongside new ideas of liberty and equality and merge into a notion of nationhood and, on another level; this was the century when we got hold of the seductive idea of building ostentatious one-off houses in the countryside.

I think we both know which has been the more enduring legacy.

[rumpelstiltskin]

If this were converted into a new home for the Dail, and College Green pedestrianized, it would restore the building's historic use, and reaffirm College Green's status as the very core of Dublin. It would also enable Leinster Square to be opened up, and the entire complex of Leinster House, the National Museum, and the National Gallery to be combined into one super cultural attraction which would have a weight of importance those institutions don't possess separately.

[Conor33]

I like the idea of converting the College green site into an 18th Century Museum. When the bank took possession of the structure in the early 1800's, they architecturally vandalised it with the addition of curtain walls which neglects Pearce's emphasis on 'projecting' wings. The building also originally had a dome, which I believe a fire destroyed (?), i don't know the full story on this matter. I think if it were to be converted into a museum, it would be marvelous to re-construct the dome (This would be a token to the talent of Edward Lovett Pearce). All work should be carried out by Irish architects and engineers, back in the 1700's William Connelly ,the speaker of the Irish House of Commons and the man who suggested the construction of a new parliament building, strongly believed Irish craftsmen had the skill and ability to carry out wonders. This is apparent at Castletown House, where Connelly only used Irish Materials and Irish craftsmen.

[Service charge]

I took a brief tour of the building recently. Bar the house of lords and the banking hall, much of the interior is of a rather poor standard. The back offices are particularly badly designed and of no real value.

So perhaps a new parliament chamber would work with Leinster House functioning as the back office. However, I doubt there's the money to that.

Alternatively I would like to see if we could arrange something with the British Museum.

The BM is based on the old parliament facade so there's a great link. Also much of the exhibits in the British museum were acquired while Ireland was a kingdom of the Empire. So arguably the Irish people played a large part in creating the BM. So perhaps the old parliament could host exhibits from the BM, as well as touring exhibits such as the recent Terracotta Warriors exhibition. I am sure the BM has a large overflow they would mind lending.

It would also tie in with the 18th century idea and a museum for Dublin city.

[Service charge]

Of course I failed to mention that given the destruction wrought on Leinster House, especially the court yard and lawn, I wouldn't dare allow the TD's get their hands on the building. They would probably knock the curtain walls to fit some cars in and then build a pencil shop on college green.

[gunter]

The whole House of Commons chamber was dismantled by the bank, as a condition of the sale in 1801, I imagine that's why the interior [other than the cash hall and the House of Lords] now looks like a carve up.

On the British Museum lending out stuff, you might want to check in with the Greeks on that one, see how it's going with them getting their marbles back.

[aj]

Its amazing how poorly BOI have maintained the building. While the banking hall is fine areas like the trinity branch are in a pretty poor state with peeling paint etc.

The building is crying out to be used as a museum for Dublin but where will the funding come from for that?

[Service charge]

Heard a very good idea today. Turn the building into the central city library. This could actually work without huge alteration and would allow everyone to benefit. Part could also be still used for a city museum.

How great would it be to sit in a reading room that was formally a house of lords.

[aj]

library is a great idea

[missarchi]

I think a single Irish architecture live studio in one space would not hurt.

[Service charge]

Thanks for joining these threads.

Looking back at my old posts I am still very curious about this building. Does anyone have any photos are the interior courtyards? What is behind the curtain walls? I would love to know what is in the large space behind the door on Foster Place. It looks like a large hall of some sort?