Lansdowne Road Stadium

[GregF]

Well done to all! What a great new addition to the city. The new 50,000 seater Aviva looks cool overall, of course bar the snags continuously listed already. But hey, this is Ireland afterall .... and besides we ain't Brazil......... or the All-Blacks! Now will we ever get to qualify for a World Cup or a European Championship? .... will we ever win the Grand Slam again or will we have to wait another 60 odd years?

[Peter Fitz]

final thoughts?

[GregF]

Ain't it great!

Now if we can only start winning a few games ...... convincingly!

[PVC King]

As a Leinster fan you feel a particular pride in this project as we certainly have the World's best club ground by an absolute distance. This along with Thomond Park will certainly underpin the quality of Irish Rugby for decades to come given the vastly enhanced ticket revenue that will be on offer. I'm coming to the conculsion the IRFU should buy Havelock Square, put it into containers send it to Shanghai and flog it as an authentic Irish Victorian Square; then with the planning objection gone go and finish the job and with whats left over get every overweight 13 year old and subject them to a soviet style prop training school located next to Kylemore Abbey.

Now to beat Munster in an hours time and get more silverware as is deserved by our magnificent new home!!

[a_slight_hitch]

we certainly have the World's best club ground by an absolute distance

the RDS? .....hardly.

[PVC King]

The RDS served a very useful purpose in the development of the game in that the crowd levels were too high for Donnybrook but too small for a 56,000 capacity Landsdowne. I went to the interprovincial final in 1986 between Leinster and Ulster and there was a crowd of c3,000 at Landsdowne; there was as you can imagine no atmosphere. In recent years the travelling support for Leinster has been up to 20,000 indicating that support has grown off the scale for the larger games.

There is no question that for the bigger games such as Heineken cup or Munster v Leinster in the Magners that the Aviva could sell out comfortably. What is the point in paying rent to the RDS when such a fine stadium exists? If you were a passionate Cardiff fan considering a weekend break would it not be a lot more attractive to travel to the Aviva than the RDS which although charming is not a real ball venue.

[davea]

If in a few years time the room was there behind the 'little end' to expand, how big and difficult a job would it be? while the statium does look great from outside, that small end just looks odd

[BTH]

Any future extension of seating upwards at the Havelock Square end would entail the removal of the ENTIRE roof structure of the stadium (and thus the entire external cladding since it all hangs from the main roof structure) given that the primary trusses rest upon the two large and rather unsightly concrete pillars which are only about ten rows back from the edge of the pitch. The whole design completely precludes any future expansion - yet another major design flaw to add to the ridiculous interior of the Aviva Stadium. The bus shelter isn't getting any better looking... Oh that's right, it'll do grand since it's lovely looking from outside...

[Peter Fitz]

The whole design completely precludes any future expansion - yet another major design flaw to add to the ridiculous interior of the Aviva Stadium. The bus shelter isn't getting any better looking...

In fairness BTH, the site is heavily constrained, and fantasies about future expansion in to havelock square or beyond the rail line at Croke Park is in reality pigs might fly stuff. I don't see any reason however why continuation of the 2nd tier isn't at least a possibility at that end, perhaps an extra 6,000+ seats to be gained.



Despite a few obvious issues, I think overall it really is pretty impressive, inside & out.

[cormacshaw]

Any future extension of seating upwards at the Havelock Square end would entail the removal of the ENTIRE roof structure of the stadium (and thus the entire external cladding since it all hangs from the main roof structure) given that the primary trusses rest upon the two large and rather unsightly concrete pillars which are only about ten rows back from the edge of the pitch.

Is this correct? I am no engineer/architect but it appears to me that the roof/wall behind the north stand and between the two concrete trusses does not provide any significant support to the roof over the two long sides. If that assumption is true, would it not be possible to build a large stand as wide as the pitch between the two trusses (perhaps a large single tier like the Anfield 'kop'). Obviously, the design of such a stand's roof, cladding and the north end's corners would have to deal with blending into or intersecting the rest of the stadium but I am sure that is within the capabilities of stadium architects. I'd also think this could be done with the stadium remaining in use, depending on how much land to the north of the site that was actually acquired.

[Morlan]

final thoughts?

What´s with the roof? Looks like it´s about to collapse.

[publicrealm]

What´s with the roof? Looks like it´s about to collapse.

I don't think it will collapse.

I was lucky enough to be at the launch party on Friday night and the place looked stunning. (Sadly, I don't have the 15k needed to ensure future admission to the premium level but it is fairly awesome.)

I'm biased, but I don't really understand the constant carping about the stadium. Is this a uniquely Irish thing - its a good stadium but not a great stadium - (Eamon Dunphy was at the party). It came in on time and under budget, it's the most exciting new building in the country (IMO) and it is unquestionably in the right place.

The issue of expanding to the north is dead, not sleeping, not stunned - dead. You cannot buy up (and demolish?) part of O'Connell Gardens - and even if you could it would represent lousey planning - and you cannot move the stadium any closer to O' Connell Gardens - it is at its absolute max at present in terms of proximity and height.

I'm celebrating one of the few Irish planning and development wins of the past year/s and I'm happy to live with the constraints inherent in staying at Lansdowne Road.

[gunter]

. . . but it is fairly awesome.

'fairly awesome' always open to a new concept, is that like being a bit dead?

Did ye see Frank was having a go at 'hurlers on the ditch' in the glossy supplement today?

[jimg]

I'm biased, but I don't really understand the constant carping about the stadium.

I don't know why you'd be perplexed. There's is nothing unreasonable about most of the criticism.

It has an obvious functional flaws; the sightlines for spectators in the upper seats are obstructed by the steelwork and the capacity is too low (admittedly a condition imposed by the planning process we assume).

It has aesthetic flaws - again this bulky "meccano model" internal steelwork and the fact that roof curves are not curvey enough. The northern "dip" looked like an interesting undulation in the sleek computer generated design images but in reality it looks like the design compromise that it is.

By my calculations it would make it into the top 10 list of most expensive stadiums in the world on a per-seat basis. That top 10 list includes the likes of Wembley, Madison Sq Garden (which admittedly blows the rest out of the water in terms of cost per seat), the Emerates and complete fiascoes like the Olympic Stadium in Montreal. It should be damn near perfect for this sort of money; producing a stadium which is "good but not great" must be considered something of a failure when you've spent 8000 euro per-seat.

[gunter]

I can't locate a link to that Frank McDonald architectural appraisal of the new Lansdowne Road stadium, but the gist of it is that the swooping down bit at the Havelock Square end is grand and apparently you can see through the plastic glazing to city beyond and how clever is that?

Frank's position on this is that Lansdowne Road is a tight urban site and these are the conditions that generate unique design solutions like Aviva, or words to that effect.

Classically educated types will be reminded of Vespasian, who in addition to being a decent Italian prop forward, faced similar difficulties when he was trying to get his 50,000 seater 'Flavian Amphitheater' [the Colosseum to you and me] off the ground.



Recent research has indicated that, far from being the eliptical perfection of model maker's fancy - and dodgy gladiator movies -, the Colosseum was in fact stepped down at the northern end following planning objections from some resident plebeians in Via Gardinia O'Connellus and the south-eastern corner of Havelocus Quadratus



Ironically perhaps the dwellings marked with a red X in this aerial view and also seen in more detail in the original shadow analysis, were pulled down some years later and replaced by a Spar.

[reddy]

Ha ha.

[sash]

Is this correct? I am no engineer/architect but it appears to me that the roof/wall behind the north stand and between the two concrete trusses does not provide any significant support to the roof over the two long sides. If that assumption is true, would it not be possible to build a large stand as wide as the pitch between the two trusses (perhaps a large single tier like the Anfield 'kop'). Obviously, the design of such a stand's roof, cladding and the north end's corners would have to deal with blending into or intersecting the rest of the stadium but I am sure that is within the capabilities of stadium architects. I'd also think this could be done with the stadium remaining in use, depending on how much land to the north of the site that was actually acquired.

That assumption re:the glass wall may be true...but what you're overlooking there is the steel trusses holding the roof up...
Just to correct you for future reference, trusses don't come in concrete - 99.9% of the time they are a different material, usually steel.The huge trusses you see running all around the stadium are supported by secondary trusses running back at the 4 corners to 4 massive concrete columns. 2 of them you can see at each end of the Havelock Square stand. The other 2 are in the other 2 corners but are built into the the structures of the tiers, and so are not as visible. There are secondary steel trusses running back to the structure that is supporting the walls of the stadium. In the top rows of seats you can nearly touch the steel overhead....I'm sorry to say it, but it's an engineer's dream, it's so complicated!!The reason the steel is looks kind of - staggered as opposed to curved - is because it's made up of straight sections bolted together. The bolts are not visible as they are covered by sleeves...makes it more asthetically pleasing.
Adding an extra tier at the low end may in theory be possible, however offsetting the size of what you could get (seats) against the size of the structure you would need to take the support of the roof.....probably wouldn't be worth it. It would also be deeply complicated to remove what's there and alter it, and you would have to somehow support the roof structure at each corner while work is ongoing...meaning you would impact greatly on the pitch and other stands. To be honest, blending it in would be the last thing on the list to worry about...but then I'm looking at it from a design/construction point of view, as opposed to an architectural point of view.

[Mike Kavanagh]

Hurlers?
In Landsdowne Road?

[wearnicehats]

Hurlers?
In Landsdowne Road?

I hurled in Lansdowne once - long lunch

[dermot_trellis]

I can't locate a link to that Frank McDonald architectural appraisal of the new Lansdowne Road stadium, but the gist of it is that the swooping down bit at the Havelock Square end is grand and apparently you can see through the plastic glazing to city beyond and how clever is that?

Frank's position on this is that Lansdowne Road is a tight urban site and these are the conditions that generate unique design solutions like Aviva, or words to that effect.

Classically educated types will be reminded of Vespasian, who in addition to being a decent Italian prop forward, faced similar difficulties when he was trying to get his 50,000 seater 'Flavian Amphitheater' [the Colosseum to you and me] off the ground.

Recent research has indicated that, far from being the eliptical perfection of model maker's fancy - and dodgy gladiator movies -, the Colosseum was in fact stepped down at the northern end following planning objections from some resident plebeians in Via Gardinia O'Connellus and the south-eastern corner of Havelocus Quadratus

Ironically perhaps the dwellings marked with a red X in this aerial view and also seen in more detail in the original shadow analysis, were pulled down some years later and replaced by a Spar.

This is genuis

[publicrealm]

Frank's position on this is that Lansdowne Road is a tight urban site and these are the conditions that generate unique design solutions like Aviva, or words to that effect.
Ironically perhaps the dwellings marked with a red X in this aerial view and also seen in more detail in the original shadow analysis, were pulled down some years later and replaced by a Spar.

Sigh.

You could have that in Newlands Cross (subject to planning).

Did'nt see the Frank McDonald article - usually don't agree with him but I'm prepared to make an exception this timel

[PVC King]

Great footage of Landsdowne Road from 1949 courtesy ofRTE archives

[Punchbowl]

Just watched the England soccer game from Wembley and one thing I noticed in comparison to the Aviva, other than the fact Wembley is a fully four sided stadium, was the steepness of the lower levels of the stand.. Like Croker, the Aviva is shallower. Do you think this is a good or bad thing in terms of retaining atmosphere?

[GregF]

While Wembley is brilliant, however I think that the TV camera is too close to the pitch so the size, scale and atmosphere of the stadium cannot be experienced on TV.

The shallower side at the new Aviva will make no difference to the atmosphere. The away fans will be probably put here. Very intimidating for the away fans with the other 3 higher sides facing them full of bellowing Irish supporters.

[thebig C]

Whilst I think it would look and feel alot better as a uniformly 360 degree stadium, I have to admit its pretty darn good.

However, I think if they moved the big screen on the Havelock Sq end into the centre, it would improve things imeasurably. For a start it would make the screen a focal point, for the remaining 3 sides and give the appearance that the huge taper down to just one tier is due to design rather then another concern.

C