cork docklands

Re: cork docklands

Postby bosco » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:41 pm

Today's echo has the headline 'Cork Docklands event centre is to go ahead'; attached is a clip of the front page.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby jungle » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:36 am

steady wrote:how Old Are You?


35
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Re: cork docklands

Postby barneymagee » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:26 pm

Surely with the council investing €8 million and planning permission already granted Howard Holdings can start our arena?
After that maybe the GAA will redevelop Pairc Ui Chaoimh seems as the council are going to give them some showground land.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby bosco » Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:06 am

It's a while since I looked at the Docklands masterplan, south docks plan etc. I'm just wondering if the development of the docklands will be done on a site by site basis, with developers making designs to fill the boundaries of the site footprint available; or is there a greater vision for the area, apart from the bridges etc. Will there be new road/street alignments? Is there any measures requiring buildings to be set back from the river frontage?

Despite the current economic situation and the effects it will have on proposed developments proceeding, I still hold out some hope for a slow and gradual development of the entire docklands. I just hope that enough foresight is employed in developing this massive area of the city -- once the major sites are developed there's no changing the layout of the area.

Specifically I'd like to see that provisions are made for an abundance of public green/plaza space throughout the entire docklands, and particularly along the river banks. In this decade I've spent some time living in a few different cities with fantastic waterside amenities - Boston, Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane and currently Vancouver. Now I know Cork cannot be realistically compared to such cities as our population is so much smaller in comparison, but it does have similarities in possessing a wonderful natural public amenity (the Lee) in a prime central location. All of the cities I mentioned have an abundance of open and public space, gracefully integrated with the existing ('historical'?) buildings and infrastructure as well as more modern, recent developments.

Top of my wishlist would be to see roads and streets kept as far back from the waterside as possible. Second would be a landmark tourist attraction, something that would become recognisable as a symbol of Cork over time. Something that if one saw it depicted on a postcard one would think "ah, that's the Cork _____"

I wonder what could we come up with? A little more imaginative than the spire in Dublin I'd hope. An observation tower? An concert hall? A giant hurley?!

There would be so many benefits; Something ambitious and original could become recognisable internationally, boosting the city's profile as a weekend break destination just by increasing awareness of its existence. It would also draw people to the docklands in the absence of anything else other than office/apartment buildings and a small retail offering.

As it stands, Cork city has very few real 'attractions'. Tourists can go to see Shandon, St. Finbarr's, the Gaol and the English market. If it's the weekend even the museum is closed. After they've spent one morning seeing those city-based attractions, it's into the rental car and off to Blarney, Kinsale, Cobh or often further afield. Marketing the city as weekend break destination relies too much on the food and drink offering and as proud as we are of what we have, it's nothing remarkably different from many other places competing for the same tourist market.

My fear is that the docklands will be developed plot by plot over the next few decades, becoming just another bland, urbanised extension of the city, when we really need a radical, imaginative, creative vision for a new district in the city, placing an emphasis on recreation, public space and tourism. Alas nothing I've seen in recent years can convince me that (1) private developers have the ambition or interest in building something with a unique and innovative design, but go all out to maximise return on investment by plonking bland generic buildings over the entire footprint of a site, (2) city planners are brave enough to allow something out of the ordinary, and (3) the city manager and council have the balls/resources to take charge of the entire thing and see it through, rather than yield to pressure from developers because "anything is better than what's there now." We don't want another Merchants Quay in the docklands!

Apologies for the extended rant.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby venividi » Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:41 pm

barneymagee wrote:... Howard Holdings can start our arena?


I rather wouldn't think so.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby mickeydocs » Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:57 pm

venividi wrote:I rather wouldn't think so.


HH in financial trouble?
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Angry Rebel » Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:09 pm

Howard are gone. Bust.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby davea » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:16 pm

2 UK subsidiaries of Howard Holdings have been wound up. Howard holdings itself is still going so you never know!
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Re: cork docklands

Postby davea » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:18 pm

barneymagee wrote:Surely with the council investing €8 million and planning permission already granted Howard Holdings can start our arena?
After that maybe the GAA will redevelop Pairc Ui Chaoimh seems as the council are going to give them some showground land.


Surely giving them the showground land is conditional on redevelopment and not just giving it to them in the hope that they might decide at some stage to redevelop the stadium and area!
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Re: cork docklands

Postby who_me » Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:15 pm

What an odd time for the Docklands to finally start to progress..

Incidentally, I just noticed the Coors Light Peak promotional concerts include a gig at the Port of Cork facilities, from the map it looks like it's on the Custom House Quay; not sure if it's on the quay-side or in the warehouses themselves. Nice to see SOMETHING finally happen in there. :)
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Angry Rebel » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:20 am

davea wrote:2 UK subsidiaries of Howard Holdings have been wound up. Howard holdings itself is still going so you never know!


Try phoning them or calling to their main office in Lapp's Quay....the lights are off, and it's not to save money...

They're gone.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby bosco » Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:28 am

This isn't necessarily news related to Cork docklands, but in the context of government support it pisses me off that they've stalled so much in providing funding for the eastern gateway bridge while they will now be bailing out the Dublin Docklands Authority...

From http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1126/dda.html
The Dublin Docklands Authority has said it will need financial support from the Government to survive following the collapse of the property market.

Authority Chairperson Professor Niamh Brennan said the Authority had a deficit of €213m last year and that its position is clearly serious.

In its annual report the Dublin Docklands Development Authority referred to its stake in the the purchase of the Glass Bottle site at Ringsend, which has seen its value fall by 85%.

There was criticism of this deal at the time because the DDDA was acting as both the planning authority and developer in the deal.

Because Anglo Irish was funding the purchase while its chairman Sean Fitzpatrick was also a non-executive director of the Docklands Authority.

The High Court also found the Authority had acted outside its powers in another deal involving the construction of new headquarters for Anglo Irish bank on the quays.

Today Professor Brennan, who was appointed last March, said public confidence in the authority had been undermined but a review was underway to ensure the authority complies with corporate governance.

She said with financial assistance from the Government the authority can restore its mandate of redeveloping the docklands.


Rabble rabble rabble!
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Re: cork docklands

Postby MrX » Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:23 pm

Well we're only supposed to pay tributes to our great leaders in Dublin, you don't seriously expect them to provide services outside the pale do you ?!
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Re: cork docklands

Postby ToMuchFreeTime » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:33 am

Seems to sum up the dockland situation quite well. Oh well maybe in another life time :(


Cork Docklands project swept down River Lee!
By Archon Saturday January 2nd, 2010

AH, dearie me! The two billion euro plan to build a town the size of Kilkenny in the dockland area of Cork has been swept down the swanee, or to be more precise, down the Lee. It turned out to be a shadow without substance, an optical illusion, and of such stuff as dreams are made of!

The Docklands project was to be one of the biggest high-density urban developments in Ireland, housing 20,000 residents and employing 25,000 people.

Tower blocks situated on the Centre Park Road, Kennedy Road and the South Docklands Quay-side were intended to change the city skyline and surpass Dublin. Cork would become one of the most attractive locations for investment in Europe. At least, that’s what the developers said.

Planners, politicos and property tycoons salivated at the thought of constructing offices, hotels, shops, apartments, a university, a Sydney Harbour-style cultural centre, leisure facilities, parks, public spaces, pedestrian routes, a new marina, and a public transport system that included a railway, a railway station and a bus station. Oh, and two new bridges were to link the city to the docklands area.

MAKE THINGS HAPPEN

The brains behind the scheme were the Tedcastle Group and Howard Holdings, whose CEO, Greg Coughlan from Ballydehob, said two years ago: “Development interests were attracted to locations where there was an air of making things happen”.

And, by gum, things were certainly going to happen in Cork although Greg also warned that serial objectors threatened the gigantic project.

He needn’t have worried. As with the great property plans of others, Greg’s dream took a nosedive, thanks to the thieving bankers, FF stupidity, economic meltdown, etc., etc.

To make matters worse, the Fianna Fail crowd never had much faith in the project -perhaps because Owen O’Callaghan (Mickey and Batto’s butty), was always skeptical about the project and didn’t sink any of his cash into it.

Not so Greg Coughlan who paid nearly €30 million in 2005 for the 12-acre Ford factory site and €10 million for a half-acre site next to City Hall only to see the brave new world vaporising before his eyes.

With the crash, the buyers queuing to see the plans for the 6,000 apartments disappeared. To cap it all, Howard Holdings' jewel in the crown, Coventry Airport, for which it paid fifteen million smackers three years ago, shut its gates forever.

NAIL IN THE COFFIN

Indeed, two of Howard Holdings whiz kids have moved on to a new outfit, Clowater Investments, which will manage many of the Howard assets and sites that were previously handled by Anglo Irish Bank.

Then, Brian Lenihan put the nail in the coffin by his failure to make any mention of the Docklands project in his budget speech. He said nothing about tax incentives, or grants for preliminary work and nothing to convince shareholders or investors that the plan was going ahead.

Even the novice TD and ex-RTE prophet of doom, George Lee, got in on the act. During a visit to Cork, he declared the focus should shift from seeking Government funding, presumably on the basis that the developers wouldn’t get any. (He was lucky not to be lynched by Cork Fine Gael for whom the Docklands was their pet project).

Yet, hope springs eternal for Leesiders. The City Council now asserts that approximately 15% of the Docklands plan will go ahead, even without the new bridges or roads being put in place or, for that matter, without raising the ground level of the entire area to alleviate flooding.

The Council points to the fact that planning permission already has been granted for a swathe of apartments, offices, bars, restaurants and a hotel. Their confidence, however, has to be taken with the proverbial grain of salt because it's based on the premise that one day the economy will pick up, things will change and the masses will stream towards the Marina, mad keen to live in the new shiny apartments.

When the economy picks up, the thinking goes, everything again will be bathed in warm golden Leeside sunlight, just as in the days of wine and roses.

In the meantime, Corkonians have been left scratching their heads, wondering what remains of their phantom city. The answer is simple: nothing but a fool’s paradise, a cock and bull story and the mess left over from other people getting rich (and some very poor) while building castles in the air!

http://www.southernstar.ie/article.php?id=1723
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Re: cork docklands

Postby browser » Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:45 am

From today's Examiner....

"Planning green light for bridges set to kick-start Cork Docklands project
By Eoin English

Thursday, April 15, 2010



PLANNING is expected to be granted today for three bridges over the River Lee to help kick-start one of the state’s most ambitious regeneration projects.



An Bord Pleanála is expected to give the green light for the bridges – one of which will be the largest swing bridge in Europe – as well as the development of several major roads to facilitate the multibillion-euro revamp of the city’s 166-hectare docklands.

The decision comes almost two years after Cork City Council submitted its plans for the iconic Eastern Gateway bridge, linking Tivoli and the south docks, the Water Street bridge and the so-called spine roads, including Centre Park Road and Monaghan Road.

The board held three oral hearings in December after the Port of Cork objected to certain aspects of the bridge plans.

The city’s Lord Mayor, Dara Murphy, said he understands today’s decision will be positive. "The time has come now for the Government to fully back this major infrastructural project, which is not just critical for the greater Metropolitan Cork region but for the country as a whole. We don’t expect a cheque this year but we must be looking at this over the next three to five years as the country moves out of recession."

An economic study on the benefits of Government investment in public infrastructure in Cork Docklands showed that the regeneration could create 15,000 jobs and generate €610m per annum for the greater Cork metropolitan region.

Most of the infrastructure was priced several years ago – the Eastern Gateway Bridge had a price tag of €80m – and it is hoped that certain savings could be made.

Several major docklands planning applications have been lodged recently, including for the redevelopment of the R&H Hall site and the Topaz site.

It is hoped securing planning permission for the public infrastructure today will give certainty to landowners considering projects.

City manager Joe Gavin said about 20% of what is planned for the docklands can proceed without the infrastructure, but credit must begin to flow again. He said despite the current economic conditions, planning applications are still being processed so that projects are ready to go when the economy picks up.



This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Thursday, April 15, 2010

Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/archives/2010/0415/ireland/planning-green-light-for-bridges-set-to-kick-start-cork-docklands-project-117303.html#ixzz0l9zHqwzW
"
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Re: cork docklands

Postby barneymagee » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:44 am

Yea, it's been granted permission. With five conditions attached, however I hear they are fairly minor.
It'll now be all about the funding I suppose. The bridge would work as an economic stimulus providing jobs during construction. Assuming it's going to take a few years to complete, it might be ready in time for this supposed upturn in the economy. No one thinks the Dokclands will proceed as quickly as envisaged first day but at least the go ahead for the bridge will mean the marker has been laid down and we are moving ahead.

I'd be very annoyed to hear the Gov procastinate on this matter citing the economy and then turn around and move ahead with Luas and Dart extensions in Dublin.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Cliff Barnes » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:30 pm

barneymagee wrote:Yea, it's been granted permission. With five conditions attached, however I hear they are fairly minor.
It'll now be all about the funding I suppose. The bridge would work as an economic stimulus providing jobs during construction. Assuming it's going to take a few years to complete, it might be ready in time for this supposed upturn in the economy. No one thinks the Dokclands will proceed as quickly as envisaged first day but at least the go ahead for the bridge will mean the marker has been laid down and we are moving ahead.

I'd be very annoyed to hear the Gov procastinate on this matter citing the economy and then turn around and move ahead with Luas and Dart extensions in Dublin.


Procrastinate ? Michael "Debt free Cork Airport" McGrath has promised that the Sarsfield and Bandon Road flyovers will begin later this year - The only chance of that is if he heads out there himself with a few shovels and wheelbarrows.There will be no money for bridges until well after the next election.Let it proceed slowly on a sustainable level.Look at Dublins monoheight borefest as an example of what not to do.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby lauder » Sat May 01, 2010 12:25 am

Well designed new 'event' centre planned by O'Callaghan for Albert Quay/Victoria Road. Badly needed in this part of the city. I'll put up a few renders tomorrow.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfkfidojidkf/rss2/
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Leesider » Sat May 01, 2010 5:55 am

It would be great to have the events centre built at last, Cork badly needs it to bring in an extra bit of revenue. HH centre is never going to happen, Mahon is too far out and the NRA would appeal it, and the Beamish site should IMHO be turned into tourist attraction such as guinness store house. The OC site will prb remain derelict for the foreseeable future with no office or apts being built so good opportunity to get rid of a derelict site as well.

On a side note was at the concert organised by I think Coors Light at the Custom House site........a concert venue in the city centre would definitely work
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Re: cork docklands

Postby The Dynamo » Tue May 04, 2010 3:00 pm

This has too be done really. I mean, for Irelands second city not too hav a permenant event center is shameful.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby jungle » Wed May 05, 2010 7:44 am

The location is good being close to rail and road links. The site doesn't have the problems with lack of public transport access that some do; nor is it too far removed from the national road network (i.e. not the nightmare of snarl-ups in Ballintemple if they used the site near Pairc Ui Chaoimh).

Two acres sounds a little small to me. Fine for gigs and the like, but it won't be attracting in significant international trade shows etc. at that size.

Where exactly is the site? And do we lose any significant buildings if it gets developed?
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Re: cork docklands

Postby barneymagee » Wed May 05, 2010 8:38 am

jungle wrote:
Where exactly is the site? And do we lose any significant buildings if it gets developed?


The site is between the Sextant pub and the Idle Hour pub on Albert Quay. You could say it is two blocks down river from City Hall.
There are two stone work buildings that, according to the artist's impression, will be retained.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby who_me » Wed May 12, 2010 3:46 pm

Any renders of the O'Callaghan proposal? I'd love to see it. Would be a great location for me (live about 50m away :) ).

If anything is ever to happen in the Docklands, then it'll probably require the city centre 'growing' out to it - such as the Lapp's Quay development, the Elysian, this proposed event centre (even the refurbishment of the Sextant) - rather than a big development at the other end far from the city, and hoping other developments fill in the gaps. Who'd want to live/work in the docklands as they currently stand?
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Leesider » Thu May 13, 2010 12:57 am

who_me wrote:Any renders of the O'Callaghan proposal? I'd love to see it. Would be a great location for me (live about 50m away :) ).

If anything is ever to happen in the Docklands, then it'll probably require the city centre 'growing' out to it - such as the Lapp's Quay development, the Elysian, this proposed event centre (even the refurbishment of the Sextant) - rather than a big development at the other end far from the city, and hoping other developments fill in the gaps. Who'd want to live/work in the docklands as they currently stand?


I would agree with you on docklands development, however if the pairc is redeveloped and Blackrock village is done up then it could be a catalyst for further development in the general area.
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Re: cork docklands

Postby Leesider » Mon May 17, 2010 3:44 am

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