teak wrote:What is the present use of this old schoolhouse ?
When your 20 sq m extension is complete, what will be the use of the building then ?
Jimjim wrote:............additional fees for fire cert application & also depending on extent of any alterations to existing building that it may require. Engineers fees it seems will amount to a rather large percentage of the overall cost.
Now obviously the Engineer will look after all this but are there likely to be many alteration required to the existing building. .......
Jimjim wrote:(snip) Its an early 60s building & wouldnt have had much thought given to fire detailing. The new extension is just a new door from existing corridor accessing new staff & wheelchair toilet
teak wrote:I'd say that a Fire Certificate is obligatory as you are making a material alteration to a building used as a place of assembly (school).
Has the engineer in question been formally engaged yet ?
If not, then please refrain from engaging him.
Because this is a school improvement - funded by a very smal budget, maybe funded by the school itself - then there is no justification for anyone to charge normal-sized fees for such a small 220 sq ft extension.
There must be some engineer/arch/arch tech in the parish who will see the necessity for doing this job "on the house".
onq wrote:You might be surprised at the level of fire safety your building might already have.
The Fire Services Act 1981 came in after the Stardust disaster and some fire officers were quite diligent in inspecting public buildings afterwards. The Health Safety and Welfare at Work Act 1989 came in shortly after that and this might have encouraged the authorities to upgrade the building.
Signs of these upgrades might include the provision of self-closing fire doors with tight tolerances along corridors and at fire stairs as well as new(ish) Fire Detection and Alarm systems.
The exit doors at each end of the Hall don't need to be upgraded because final exit doors are not required to to be fire doors.
Notwithstanding the extension, you should have a fire detection system already in place for a place of assembly such as a school. How did you get insurance with no fire detection? That's asking for trouble.
Is it too much to ask that if someone requires architectural services like planning applications and fire cert applications that they hire an architect?
Jimjim wrote:No sorry, its currently a school & is remaining a school. Im just worried that the very small budget we have obtained to build a staff & disabled toilet wont be a runner due to additional fees for fire cert application & also depending on extent of any alterations to existing building that it may require. Engineers fees it seems will amount to a rather large percentage of the overall cost.
Now obviously the Engineer will look after all this but are there likely to be many alteration required to the existing building. Its an early 60s building & wouldnt have had much thought given to fire detailing. The new extension is just a new door from existing corridor accessing new staff & wheelchair toilet
teak wrote:In relation to hiring an architect, we have got many quotes. Most architects were in the region of €2500 for fire cert(additional for access cert), €2000 for planning & between 1000 & 4000 for other works relating to certification & further design etc.
Engineers have come in much cheaper - about 4000 approx complete.
Now I see why you went to an engineer.
I wonder if some of the architects contributing to this thread would care to comment the fees above.
And their professional indemnity components.
In view of it being a 20 sq m extension, particularly.
An architect could have told you that, but I agree with you, Teak & Henno that architects are offensively expensive, especially the unemployed ones.
wearnicehats wrote:ok charity boys
before we take this any further - what, in your pro bono little minds, would be an acceptable salary for a fully qualified MRIAI self employed architect with 20 years experience - in a given financial year?
henno wrote:WNH and tayto....
......so based on what jimjim has posted architects quoted between €5,500 and €8,500.
what in gods name are they doing quoting figures of these percentages (22 - 34%) for toilet extensions???.... if theyre trying to cover high PI premiums id question why they are high !!?!
Jimjim, what is the proposed construction cost of the build???